is our team better

[scottflyers88]

i think so. everybody is angry about the gagne trade and we did not get much for him. i am not sure how much we would get for him though. anyway i feel the need to post this because people seem to be overreacting.

our offense last year only had 4 20 goal scorers. it was not anything special. so why would getting rid of gagne make our offense better? well it does not although it should still improve. the reason is everybody seemed to have down years last year. also, jvr, and giroux should improve. leino barely played and he has a lot of skill. he could chip in some goals. hartnell and briere had down years and should improve. carter only had 33 goals which is a little low for what he can do. and zherdev can also score. i think next year we could have double the amount of 20 goal scorers. also, our defense has some scorers on it.

as far as the defense goes it has improved a lot. pronger, carle, timmonen, and coburn are the top 4 still. the problem was our 3rd pair. they added meszaros and odonnell who are good enough to be a second pairing on a lot of teams. i think meszaros is better than carle and coburn. i now think this gives us the best defense. we might not have the least amount of goals against though because we do not play a trap game.

and last would be goaltending which has stayed the same. in a way it is kind of better than last year. last year emery played hurt, boucher had to get called to play long stretches without doing anything right before that. he also got hurt. and leighton had to jump in in the playoffs after a high ankle sprain. i think a full year for leighton with jeff reese will help. so even though people dislike this trade and i do not either, the fact is that our team will probably be better.

 

[soulxflare]

I agree.

I don't have a whole lot to add except that I too feel like the Flyers of 7/19/2010 are better than the Flyers of 6/10/2010.

 

[scottflyers88]

i agree as well. i am a little angry because i think we could be even better right now. some of the moves have been a little odd. i think i am most eager to see zherdev though. he has a ton of skill and mentioned he is a 2 way player now. i really just think he wants to play in the nhl and i think this is his last shot. he could be on this team for a while. homer even said he is a nice addition to our core. think of it as gagne for walker, zherdev, and a 4th.

 

[soulxflare]

i agree as well. i am a little angry because i think we could be even better right now. some of the moves have been a little odd. i think i am most eager to see zherdev though. he has a ton of skill and mentioned he is a 2 way player now. i really just think he wants to play in the nhl and i think this is his last shot. he could be on this team for a while. homer even said he is a nice addition to our core. think of it as gagne for walker, zherdev, and a 4th.

I would hope so ... it was your post, after all.

 

[Automattic]

From an outsiders viewpoint, I think that the accomplishments made by the returning players and how pissed they are about losing the finals made this a better team. Determination levels can indeed go up even higher, even when you thought they couldn't anymore.

 

[mrfreeze1179]

Did the Flyers get better...on defense absolutely....the problem is that defense was not what failed them last year.
Look further than just the playoffs- this was a team that had problems scoring, had a revolving door that was the goaltenders- Scoring has not improved possibly gotten worse, and goaltending is worse re-signed two back-ups.
Our current back up won just 33% of the regular season games he played. Boucher's career win percentage over 312 games is just 34.3%
Our current starter won a career high 50% of his games last season to raise his career win percentage over 142 games to 37.3%
Can Leighton who was on waivers win this team 30-40 games?
If the Flyers repeat thier record last year Boucher and Leighton need to win 41 games- Boucher has never won more than 23 games, Leighton has never won more than 17.....that's 40 in their combined best years!!!!

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

I think we will be better, not through acquisitions, but through player development and improvement

 

[soulxflare]

the problem is that defense was not what failed them last year.

Really? You could have fooled me. Our defense corps looked tired as hell in the last few games of the cup finals. We absolutely needed to be 6 dmen deep as opposed to the 4 dmen deep we were against Chicago.

goaltending is worse re-signed two back-ups.

No -- technically, our goaltending is exactly the same as it was the day we lost the stanley cup. Hypothetically, through all the defensive upgrades, our goaltending should improve from last year.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Did the Flyers get better...on defense absolutely....the problem is that defense was not what failed them last year.
Look further than just the playoffs- this was a team that had problems scoring, had a revolving door that was the goaltenders- Scoring has not improved possibly gotten worse, and goaltending is worse re-signed two back-ups.
Our current back up won just 33% of the regular season games he played. Boucher's career win percentage over 312 games is just 34.3%
Our current starter won a career high 50% of his games last season to raise his career win percentage over 142 games to 37.3%
Can Leighton who was on waivers win this team 30-40 games?
If the Flyers repeat thier record last year Boucher and Leighton need to win 41 games- Boucher has never won more than 23 games, Leighton has never won more than 17.....that's 40 in their combined best years!!!!

False.

 

[anderwho2513]

The offense was anemic at several points last year, and they did absolutely nothing to help it other than hope that JvR actually cares enough to try for more than 10% of the games this year.

The defense is deeper, but more expensive. I don't think having a #5 defenseman making over $3M is a smart thing for when the offense sputters.

The goaltending did us in last year for 3 of the 4 loses in the Finals. Nothing was done to address it. Defense can only restrict the number and quality of the chances against, but if the goalie is giving up horrible goals on weak chances, what's the defense to do?

No, we are not better. All they did was build onto their strengths and ignore the weaknesses.

 

[mrfreeze1179]

False??? That's all you've got? Prove it with some statistics
OK show me how your starting goalie got pulled in 2 out of 6 Stanley Cup games that it was the defense that failed?
25 goals in 6 games...4.16 GAA on the largest stage of them all???

 

[TOX1]

IF Leino & JvR have break out seasons, Zherdev produces like the world class offensive threat that he is and Scott Fucking Hartless decides to be a team player instead of a selfish asshole and if this juggernaut D Homer put together stays healthy........we breeze into the playoffs and inflict serious damage.

IF NOT....we drift listlessly through another season and hope we sneak on at the end again.

To answer Scott's question -- yes, I think they're better.

 

[soulxflare]

The offense was anemic at several points last year, and they did absolutely nothing to help it other than hope that JvR actually cares enough to try for more than 10% of the games this year.

The defense is deeper, but more expensive. I don't think having a #5 defenseman making over $3M is a smart thing for when the offense sputters.

The goaltending did us in last year for 3 of the 4 loses in the Finals. Nothing was done to address it. Defense can only restrict the number and quality of the chances against, but if the goalie is giving up horrible goals on weak chances, what's the defense to do?

No, we are not better. All they did was build onto their strengths and ignore the weaknesses.

The same goaltending that was good enough for a 16-5-2 record in the regular season and good enough to post a shutout in 60% of the Eastern Conference finals, right?

I love how everyone harps upon the bad, yet never remembers the good. Leights wasn't "giving up horrible goals on weak chances" in more than a couple of games all season long.

I'm not saying he is a stud, but the guy absolutely deserves a legitimate chance to prove whether or not he's #1 material -- and to say that the cup finals was his audition is asinine.

 

[awaz]

i agree w/ freeze.. i said it multiple times last season (during the regular season) that the goaltending wasn't the problem (even when boosh lost a whole bunch in a row).. the flyers got shut out 6 times in 8 games or somethin absurd like that..

this offense concerns me.. there are just too many question marks.. too much hoping going on.. 'i hope zherdev showcases his talents'.. 'i hope jvr improves'.. 'i hope the leino of the playoffs returns to the flyers and not the one that couldn't crack the wings lineup'.. 'i hope giroux continues to progress'.. 'hopefully carter can keep scoring 30+ goals'.. 'briere should be better playing at center all season'..

IMO there are far too many question marks for a team that went through MASSIVE goal scoring droughts in the regular season.. big scoring droughts like that are the reason the flyers were on the edge of the playoffs..

however i do think the team improved.. because i do think a lot of those 'what-ifs' will come true.. and that defense is stout as it comes (even after coburn or carle get moved).. having leighton back there is worrisome, but i think he'll do fine behind that defense.. and i dont think the flyers have any intention of getting another goalie (as i've said 13,000 times before)

 

[soulxflare]

i agree w/ freeze.. i said it multiple times last season (during the regular season) that the goaltending wasn't the problem (even when boosh lost a whole bunch in a row).. the flyers got shut out 6 times in 8 games or somethin absurd like that.

Um... freeze was the one that said goaltending WAS the problem last year, not vice versa.

 

[flyersfan4706]

False??? That's all you've got? Prove it with some statistics
OK show me how your starting goalie got pulled in 2 out of 6 Stanley Cup games that it was the defense that failed?
25 goals in 6 games...4.16 GAA on the largest stage of them all???

I dont have stats. I have eyes however. Watching games where Pronger was worked 40 minutes the 3rd line was not something we could fall back on. It looked bad. With Meszaros and Odonnell our 3rd pair is better and more reliable.

 

[scottflyers88]

you can also throw out our goalies win percentage. boucher played on the coyotes. leighton played on a lot of horrible teams.

as far as offense, did you guys not realize gagne was going to be traded. funny how nobody thought it was a problem until they saw the return we got for gagne. how was getting a good prospect going to help our scoring.

also, gagne only had 20 goals last year. i am sure giroux, jvr, leino, briere at center, hartnell bouncing back from a horrible year, and zherdev should make up for that production.

our defense is much better as well.

 

[flyersfan4706]

Harntell will be back Leino will get ice time JVR has XP, and Giroux needs to play like its the playoffs

 

[FlyerFinFan]

you can also throw out our goalies win percentage. boucher played on the coyotes. leighton played on a lot of horrible teams.

as far as offense, did you guys not realize gagne was going to be traded. funny how nobody thought it was a problem until they saw the return we got for gagne. how was getting a good prospect going to help our scoring.

also, gagne only had 20 goals last year. i am sure giroux, jvr, leino, briere at center, hartnell bouncing back from a horrible year, and zherdev should make up for that production.

our defense is much better as well.

I agree with Scott even before they make another trade this teams better right now...heck one bs hit and Gags could be out I'll take a young talented guy like Zherdev over that risk especially if you compare cap hits Zherdev is a steal. If Walker sucks they can send him down to the minors and they've made money its nice to have that option.

IMO another trade will happen and it will most likely involve one of the dmen for either a goalie to fight it out with Leights or another winger but I think the lines are already set up front.

Carter/Richie/Zherdev
Harts/Briere/Leino
JVR/Giroux/Carcillo
Shelley/Betts/Lappy *Powe

Cracks me up on how people can't see that this group of forwards can't at least score as much as last year as bad as it was and the D is way better from top to bottom which will help the forwards who have defensive deficiencies as well as the goaltending as they will be more rested game in game out.

I can understand why Gags was moved instead of Carts but I guess we'll see how he pans out on wing if not he can easily be moved for a wingman of high quality. The question is will a dman be moved for a goalie with Walker being the 6th? I think Coburn can get a decent return...we'll see.

 

[awaz]

well moving gagne is a two pronged attack when it comes to hurting the offense.. carter's production, IMO, is going to go down this year if he actually does move to the wing.. and they are one injury away from having 2 scoring lines.. basically those line combinations irritate me (not picking on you fin, thats what i always see).. what i see in those lines is a 'first line' thats a misplaced center at left wing, a grinder with a scoring touch in the middle, and a me-first goal scorer on the other side.. that line makes no sense player-type wise.. obviously no qualms about the 2nd line.. and a 'third line' that didnt really work all that well last year with asham on it, and it might as well be the same line.. power forward that doesn't go to the front of the net, agitator, and a playmaker?.. whats the point of giroux having great passes when there's nobody to put home his passes?.. he was at his best playing with briere, who is a finisher, or on the PP with other finishers

JvR.Carter.Leino
Giroux.Briere.Zherdev
Hartnell.Richards.Carcillo
Shelley.Betts.Lappy

*leino and giroux could switch too

This way Carter can play in the middle, leino can control the puck and find the open guy, and i'm still hopefull that jvr will go to the net, which is what helps carters production so much.. then on 'line 2', giroux is paired with 2 of the best 3 finishers on the team, and then the '3rd line' will be almost impossible to play against, while still having the ability to score goals with hartnell and richards.. plus carcillo has been at his best when playing with richards, who will help control carcillo when starts to get out of control

the only problem i see with those lines is the back-checking.. its going to rely on carter actually getting back like he used to (when he was a solid PK'er) and giroux continuing his progression defensively (he ended up on the PK last year).. but when you get rid of your best 2-way forward (at least winger if you wanna give richards that title) the backchecking will take a hit, i dont really see any way around back-checking holes, which is why the flyers have this ridiculous defense