POLL Is Justin Verlander a Future Hall of Famer?

[msgkings322]

Yeah I can watch this all day!

I get it, she's a model dancing around almost naked. But damn she is a shitty dancer. Kinda ruins it for me.

 

[Yo Tee]

Okay, but you would agree that it wouldn't be completely crazy to say he is right?

No. There's no way, right now, that I would even entertain a discussion where Ian Kinsler is a Hall of Famer.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No. There's no way, right now, that I would even entertain a discussion where Ian Kinsler is a Hall of Famer.

That wasn't my question. I was asking if it's completely crazy to say that Ian Kinsler is the 251st best player in MLB history.

 

[Yo Tee]

That wasn't my question. I was asking if it's completely crazy to say that Ian Kinsler is the 251st best player in MLB history.

I will say this. There are definitely more than 15 retired baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame more than Kinsler and there are definitely at least 15 current baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame. So no, I'd say he's not the 251st best player in MLB history and I would argue he may not even be in the top 300.

 

[Cedrique]

Of course Verlander is in. If you don't believe me just ask his girlfriend

 

[StanMarsh51]

I will say this. There are definitely more than 15 retired baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame more than Kinsler and there are definitely at least 15 current baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame. So no, I'd say he's not the 251st best player in MLB history and I would argue he may not even be in the top 300.

At the same time, you can argue that Kinser's career is better (or will end up being better) than a number of current HOFers....

Think of guys like...
-Rizzuto
-Mazeroski
-George Kell
-Roger Bresnahan
-Red Schoendienst
-Hughie Jennings
-Rabbit Maronville
-Travis Jackson
-Rick Ferrell



And numerous others that are on in the HOF...Kinsler would be better than a fair amount of guys in the HOF.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I will say this. There are definitely more than 15 retired baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame more than Kinsler and there are definitely at least 15 current baseball players that deserve to be in the hall of fame. So no, I'd say he's not the 251st best player in MLB history and I would argue he may not even be in the top 300.

Don't forget, guys like Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Mussina, Walker, Whitaker, Trammell, Brown, etc etc are already IN the Hall of Stats. The 15 retired players who are not yet eligible who have a higher rating than Kinsler are Chipper, Rolen, Thome, Andruw Jones, Santana, Halladay, Rivera, Helton, Pettitte, Oswalt, Jeter, Abreu, Hudson, Buehrle, and A-Rod. So who else would you add? And what active players would you say should have a higher hall rating than Kinsler but aren't mentioned?

 

[navamind]

I don't think Kinsler's a HOFer right now, but if he can put together a few more years like 2013-16, he could have a decent case. Above average hitter (especially for a 2B), but a very good baserunner and defender.

 

[navamind]

At the same time, you can argue that Kinser's career is better (or will end up being better) than a number of current HOFers....

Think of guys like...
-Rizzuto
-Mazeroski
-George Kell
-Roger Bresnahan
-Red Schoendienst
-Hughie Jennings
-Rabbit Maronville
-Travis Jackson
-Rick Ferrell



And numerous others that are on in the HOF...Kinsler would be better than a fair amount of guys in the HOF.

this, there's HOFers that are far less qualified than Kinsler is.

 

[navamind]

Ichiro's a borderline HOFer (IMO) though I'd put him in because of his pre-MLB work and because he didn't play in the majors until he was 27. One of the most overrated hitters of all-time, his baserunning and defense are what make him a HOFer.

 

[Cedrique]

I don't think Kinsler's a HOFer right now, but if he can put together a few more years like 2013-16, he could have a decent case. Above average hitter (especially for a 2B), but a very good baserunner and defender.

I agree with this . If you put Kinsler in now then in my opinion Utley is a hall of famer too. But as of now I don't think Utley will get in because he did almost all his damage in a 5-6 year period where he was the best. Kinsler has had more above average seasons than Utley but if you take his best 5 years and compare them to that 5 year period Utley had there it is not even close. But if Kinsler could put together 3 more seasons like 2013-16 and another "compiling" season after that he'll be hitting numbers like 2500 hits and 300 homers and I think he'll get in.

 

[Yo Tee]

Don't forget, guys like Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Mussina, Walker, Whitaker, Trammell, Brown, etc etc are already IN the Hall of Stats. The 15 retired players who are not yet eligible who have a higher rating than Kinsler are Chipper, Rolen, Thome, Andruw Jones, Santana, Halladay, Rivera, Helton, Pettitte, Oswalt, Jeter, Abreu, Hudson, Buehrle, and A-Rod. So who else would you add? And what active players would you say should have a higher hall rating than Kinsler but aren't mentioned?

Retired guys: Fred McGriff, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Johnny Damon, Omar Visquel, Dwight Gooden, Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Mark Texieria, David Ortiz, Bernie Williams, Luis Gonzalez

Active guys: Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Buster Posey, Evan Longoria, David Wright

I got Kinsler as around #254.

 

[Cedrique]

Retired guys: Fred McGriff, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Johnny Damon, Omar Visquel, Dwight Gooden, Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Mark Texieria, David Ortiz, Bernie Williams, Luis Gonzalez

Active guys: Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Buster Posey, Evan Longoria, David Wright

I got Kinsler as around #254.

For some reason I can't get on the Billy Wagner bandwagon. And it is strange because in he was a great pitcher, and I think the word "clutch" is overrated and overused and I think sometimes postseason performance and championships are overvalued. But I also think "closers" are overvalued in general and if you're going to get in the Hall of Fame as a closer, that is the one position where I think if you get some opportunities in the post season you have to deliver. Wagner had chances with like 3 different teams and came up small almost every time.

 

[navamind]

Retired guys: Fred McGriff, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Johnny Damon, Omar Visquel, Dwight Gooden, Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Mark Texieria, David Ortiz, Bernie Williams, Luis Gonzalez

Active guys: Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Buster Posey, Evan Longoria, David Wright

I got Kinsler as around #254.

ahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Yo Tee]

ahahahahahahahahaha

They've had better careers than Ian Kinsler. You kidding me?

 

[navamind]

They've had better careers than Ian Kinsler. You kidding me?

their batting stats are comparable (Kinsler has a higher OPS+) and he plays a far more demanding position than Damon, not to mention he was a much better fielder.

relief pitchers lol

Vizquel is a compiler. one really good season (1999) and a bunch of meh. Kinsler has more WAR despite having like 4600 fewer plate appearances.

Mattingly had a good peak (84-89), but he was a pedestrian player outside of that.

 

[Yo Tee]

their batting stats are comparable (Kinsler has a higher OPS+) and he plays a far more demanding position than Damon, not to mention he was a much better fielder.

Their batting stats are comparable?? Kinsler is a little under 1,000 hits and 300 RBIs short of Damon. Not to mention, Damon has a better avg and over 400 stolen bases. He's also won 2 championships. I know it's hard to compare the closers so I won't go into that but I think Damon and Visquel have had better careers than Kinsler. That's not to say that Kinsler won't have a better career when it's all said and done.

 

[navamind]

Their batting stats are comparable?? Kinsler is a little under 1,000 hits and 300 RBIs short of Damon. Not to mention, Damon has a better avg and over 400 stolen bases. He's also won 2 championships. I know it's hard to compare the closers so I won't go into that but I think Damon and Visquel have had better careers than Kinsler. That's not to say that Kinsler won't have a better career when it's all said and done.

Yeah... because he had about 3500 more PA. That's 5-6 seasons worth of plate appearances.

Damon: .284/.352/.433, 104 OPS+
Kinsler: .273/.342/.447, 109 OPS+

Did I mention one was a 2nd baseman?

 

[StanMarsh51]

Retired guys: Fred McGriff, Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Johnny Damon, Omar Visquel, Dwight Gooden, Ron Guidry, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Mark Texieria, David Ortiz, Bernie Williams, Luis Gonzalez

Active guys: Felix Hernandez, Max Scherzer, Buster Posey, Evan Longoria, David Wright

I got Kinsler as around #254.

By the time Kinsler is done he'll likely be ahead a fair amount of those guys in terms of career value (ie - Luis Gonzalez, Teixeira, Giambi). Remember, Kinsler's a 2B, where guys aren't hitting 400 career homers like at 1B or LF.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I am on the fence with Verlander to be a HOF... on one hand his ERA and WHIP are just not HOF caliber... but if you ask anyone to name the top 5 SP of the past 10-15 years, everyone will put him in their list...

What hurts his stats is that he is one of the rare pitchers who average over 200 innings per season...