Is joining a conference the same thing as socialism?

[DragonfromTO]

I'm saying that the "politics forum" is based on people making statements. Some people agree, some people disagree, sometimes strongly. How many times have you seen someone on this board say another person is full of shit. Sometimes posters disagree, that was the point I was making. Maybe you disagree.

None of this really does anything to explain why you stated "There are many people saying teams should be forced to join a conference" as part of your argument.

 

[TBBishop]

Jim Delaney has stated that ND has not been invited.

Only because they never got that far. Decades ago ND wanted in and they were denied. then when the B1G wanted them, they didn't take the offer. They may not have been officially extended an offer in a long time but they were certainly spoken to about joining. But by all accounts, they were all set to join with PSU and pulled out at the 11th hour.

 

[NDHoosier101]

None of this really does anything to explain why you stated "There are many people saying teams should be forced to join a conference" as part of your argument.

There are. Posters at SH and espn have said ND should not be able to participate in big time bowl games, and now the new playoff system, unless they join a conference.

 

[DragonfromTO]

There are. Posters at SH and espn have said ND should not be able to participate in big time bowl games, and now the new playoff system, unless they join a conference.

I don't doubt that there are people out there that have had and expressed those thoughts. Still doesn't explain why he thought I should be caring about those opinions or have to defend them.

 

[DragonfromTO]

There are. Posters at SH and espn have said ND should not be able to participate in big time bowl games, and now the new playoff system, unless they join a conference.

I would also add that I would not really consider this being "forced" anyway. Certainly not at all comparable to government use of force.

 

[Irish7478]

None of this really does anything to explain why you stated "There are many people saying teams should be forced to join a conference" as part of your argument.

By this, I'll assume that you are from Canada.

 

[FSUmanager]

Nope. While there is some revenue sharing via TV revenue that uses the Conference Brand, there is no conference seizure and ownership of school assets or individual incomes (ie ticket sales, merch sales, donations, etc).

Nice try tho. ND needs to wake up and just join their daddies in the B1G. This holdout is childish.

Not going to happen. ND will join the ACC eventually. Why go to the B1G for Olympic sports like lacrosse, baseball, and so on? The B1G sucks at them. Just asking not throwing mud.

 

[fordman84]

Don't they also share bowl money? It gives Illinois and Indiana an incentive to lose to Michigan, because if Michigan wins and goes to a better bowl, and illinois isnt going to a bowl anyway, they will get more bowl money. Sounds pretty socialistic to me.

no, that sounds like collusion


and you still wreak of troll

 

[fordman84]

looks like this is more fitting.

 

[NDHoosier101]

I would also add that I would not really consider this being "forced" anyway. Certainly not at all comparable to government use of force.

Lol not being able to compete for a championship without compiling isn't being forced? That's comparable to: unless you wear a green shirt to work you aren't getting paid, you can continue to work in any color shirt you want though. Sure, they aren't forcing you, but then what's the point in doing it?

 

[DragonfromTO]

By this, I'll assume that you are from Canada.

What does that point have to do with your actual argument? Why should I care if "many people" are saying that? If "many people" are saying that, then I guess I disagree with those "many people". That fact has little to nothing to do with the fundamental discussion that you and I are having here.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Lol not being able to compete for a championship without compiling isn't being forced? That's comparable to: unless you wear a green shirt to work you aren't getting paid, you can continue to work in any color shirt you want though. Sure, they aren't forcing you, but then what's the point in doing it?

Wearing the green shirt is merely a condition of your paid employment with that particular company, not a condition of being alive at all like the economic regulations of a socialist government are.

I mean hell, I could also point out that there are already plenty of NCAA football programs that manage to function effectively without the ability to compete for the FBS championship, aren't there?

If you are in a socialist country and you don't comply with their economic regulations, they will arrest you and take your freedom away. And there's essentially nothing you can do to stop them except comply. That is real "force".

 

[poewelch84]

The key element is really that Notre Dame is being a jerk.

Actually the key element is that the Big Ten blocked Notre Dame from joining back when Knute Rockne was the coach and Michigan basically told the rest of the Big Ten schools what to do. So the real jerk was Fielding Yost of Michigan for blocking and boycotting Notre Dame in the early days of football. Had he not done that Notre Dame would have been a member of the Big Ten for 100 plus years.

 

[poewelch84]

Only because they never got that far. Decades ago ND wanted in and they were denied. then when the B1G wanted them, they didn't take the offer. They may not have been officially extended an offer in a long time but they were certainly spoken to about joining. But by all accounts, they were all set to join with PSU and pulled out at the 11th hour.

It all went south from that point on.

 

[socaljim242]

If ND fan has an issue playing " socialistic" teams he should petition the ND AD to have ND only play fellow capitalistic schools like BYU only, and not play those teams in conferences . Lets see how much money ND makes not playing these socialists. You bash the system but you make money playing the teams in the system.

 

[Irish7478]

If ND fan has an issue playing " socialistic" teams he should petition the ND AD to have ND only play fellow capitalistic schools like BYU only, and not play those teams in conferences . Lets see how much money ND makes not playing these socialists. You bash the system but you make money playing the teams in the system.

No, I enjoy playing them, and I understand why these teams need to join conferences, I just don't understand why people think we need to join a conference to qualify for a national championship. The fact that we are not in a conference drives some people crazy. It seems as though in this country, we would support a team that wished to proceed based on their own merits, and not on a group they are tied to. I can't see myself getting all excited by yelling SEC, SEC, SEC. Or ACC, ACC, ACC for that matter.

 

[Irish7478]

It all went south from that point on.

I tend to think it all took off from that point.

 

[NDHoosier101]

Wearing the green shirt is merely a condition of your paid employment with that particular company, not a condition of being alive at all like the economic regulations of a socialist government are.

I mean hell, I could also point out that there are already plenty of NCAA football programs that manage to function effectively without the ability to compete for the FBS championship, aren't there?

If you are in a socialist country and you don't comply with their economic regulations, they will arrest you and take your freedom away. And there's essentially nothing you can do to stop them except comply. That is real "force".

Not on ND's level, or any AQ level. So what you're saying is you only recognize force if your life is threatened? :rollseyes:

 

[poewelch84]

I tend to think it all took off from that point.

Well I agree but the relationship from a joining stand point went south.

 

[socaljim242]

No, I enjoy playing them, and I understand why these teams need to join conferences, I just don't understand why people think we need to join a conference to qualify for a national championship. The fact that we are not in a conference drives some people crazy. It seems as though in this country, we would support a team that wished to proceed based on their own merits, and not on a group they are tied to. I can't see myself getting all excited by yelling SEC, SEC, SEC. Or ACC, ACC, ACC for that matter.[/QUOTE


It drives them crazy because Notre dame profits from being independent yet uses teams in conferences to make that money. It's like using the golf course at the country club but not paying dues. While teams like Texas -USC - Alabama could do just fine if there were no conferences at all, schools like Cal , Mississippi State , Northwestern would not have the allure and would probably not be able to fund the rest of their athletic departments is they didn't belong to a conference. If everyone did as Notre dame then it would be a mess. So people would rather you stop using the system to make more than others and join the others who have members that are haves and most have nots for the overall good of the game. You wouldn't lose a thing if you did join a conference heck you're playing 5 ACC teams now what difference does it really make?So it's nopt that ND "needs" to join one it's that you are the big boy program everyone knows that.You will make more than anyone no matter what. So people just think it's arrogance.

 

[socaljim242]

No, I enjoy playing them, and I understand why these teams need to join conferences, I just don't understand why people think we need to join a conference to qualify for a national championship. The fact that we are not in a conference drives some people crazy. It seems as though in this country, we would support a team that wished to proceed based on their own merits, and not on a group they are tied to. I can't see myself getting all excited by yelling SEC, SEC, SEC. Or ACC, ACC, ACC for that matter.[/QUOTE


It drives them crazy because Notre dame profits from being independent yet uses teams in conferences to make that money. It's like using the golf course at the country club but not paying dues. While teams like Texas -USC - Alabama could do just fine if there were no conferences at all, schools like Cal , Mississippi State , Northwestern would not have the allure and would probably not be able to fund the rest of their athletic departments is they didn't belong to a conference. If everyone did as Notre dame then it would be a mess. So people would rather you stop using the system to make more than others and join the others who have members that are haves and most have nots for the overall good of the game. You wouldn't lose a thing if you did join a conference heck you're playing 5 ACC teams now what difference does it really make?