POLL Is Brady the GOAT with a SB win this year?

[Darrell Green Fan]

It is possible to win a Super Bowl without great QB play. See 2000 Ravens and 2016 Broncos.

If he plays great and gets another MVP, then you could make a great case. But you could already make a great case.

You have 2 examples, I can provide about 45 the other way.

 

[Chewbaccer]

No. Bill Belichick has already cemented himself as the greatest coach of all time, and me, you or any bum off the street would be successful qbs in his system.

When Tom Brady misses a season, the Pats go 11-5. When Peyton Manning missed a season, the Colts got the first overall pick in the draft.

Literally, the two extra Super Bowl rings is the ONLY argument Brady has over Manning, and those first 3 for Brady, he was pretty much just a game manager relying on a great defense and the leg of the best kicker of all time.

 

[Ricky Roma]

Correct. That was the other hater. You claimed that 10 SB wins wouldn't change your mind.

That's retarded.

Uuuhh no. It's called using logic and common sense. This argument can be made far more for say, a tennis player or golfer, ie, an individual competition and championships/majors. Is Terry Bradshaw one of the top 3 QB's of all time? Is anyone with a SB ring a better QB than all the HOF'ers who have none? How about receivers, or defensive linemen? Where does this cosmically-flawed logic end?

 

[Chewbaccer]

You have 2 examples, I can provide about 45 the other way.

Jim Plunkett won two, Doug Williams won 1, Brad Johnson won 1.

There's been 50 SBs, we're now up to 6 that didn't have great QBs, so you can't name 45.

 

[jon2tanman]

Seattle handed Brady 1 of those rings!

 

[soxfan1468927]

No. Bill Belichick has already cemented himself as the greatest coach of all time, and me, you or any bum off the street would be successful qbs in his system.

When Tom Brady misses a season, the Pats go 11-5. When Peyton Manning missed a season, the Colts got the first overall pick in the draft.

Literally, the two extra Super Bowl rings is the ONLY argument Brady has over Manning, and those first 3 for Brady, he was pretty much just a game manager relying on a great defense and the leg of the best kicker of all time.

The 2008 Patriots also scored 179 fewer points than they did with Brady. The 2011 Colts scored 192 fewer points than they did with Manning. And the Pats had Cassel and the Colts had Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, and Kerry Collins.

And you realize in that 2nd Super Bowl, they gave up 29 points and Brady threw for 350 yards and 3 TDs. This while Vinatieri missed 2 field goals. And in the 3rd Super Bowl run, he faced the number 1 and 2 ranked pass defenses in the AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl respectively. And Vinatieri had one field goal in the Super Bowl, a 22 yarder.

And the Super Bowls aren't the only argument for Brady over Manning. Their Rate+ is the exact same and that's with Manning playing most of his career in a dome with better offensive talent around him. And Manning had a top 10 defense (points allowed per game) 7 times and went one and done in 5 of those years.

 

[Bridgeburner]

He's already the greatest of all time.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Defense wins championships. In his Patriots career, Brady has enjoyed playing with 13 top ten defenses, although one of them was the Cassell year, so we'll give him twelve. Every time the Patriots/Brady won a Super Bowl, they had one of these top ten defenses.

On the other side of the spectrum, the Packers have only had two top ten defenses while Rodgers has been playing. And, yes, he won the Super Bowl one of those years. I wouldn't be surprised in the least that if Rodgers played with 13 top ten defenses in his career, he be considered the greatest by more people than he already is.

Well in 3 of the 4 Super Bowl wins, the defense gave up 27 points or more in at least one of those games. And the Packers may not have had top 10 defenses, but they've had plenty of pretty good defenses. 11th in 2012, 13th in 2014, and 12th last year. And due to their inconsistencies in the regular season, on both offense and defense, they've had to play on the road every postseason.

 

[CowboyB]

I assume Mason Crosby was the MVP on Sunday?

 

[CowboyB]

Tom Brad's legacy is forever tainted. Barry Bonds isn't the best homerun hitter, Lance isn't the best cyclist, and Brady isn't the GOAT.

 

[CowboyB]

You have 2 examples, I can provide about 45 the other way.

Eli Manning won 2.

 

[CowboyB]

Well in 3 of the 4 Super Bowl wins, the defense gave up 27 points or more in at least one of those games. And the Packers may not have had top 10 defenses, but they've had plenty of pretty good defenses. 11th in 2012, 13th in 2014, and 12th last year. And due to their inconsistencies in the regular season, on both offense and defense, they've had to play on the road every postseason.

12th,13th,&14th is average.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Uuuhh no. It's called using logic and common sense. This argument can be made far more for say, a tennis player or golfer, ie, an individual competition and championships/majors. Is Terry Bradshaw one of the top 3 QB's of all time? Is anyone with a SB ring a better QB than all the HOF'ers who have none? How about receivers, or defensive linemen? Where does this cosmically-flawed logic end?

No but we're not talking about Terry Bradshaw, who for his time had a slightly above average passer rating, was a 3-time Pro Bowler, and played with 7 HOFers. Also whose defense, in the 12 games for their Super Bowl runs, gave up more than 19 points in one of them.

We are talking about a 12-time Pro Bowler with a 118 Rate+, whose defense gave up at least 21 points in 5 of the 12 games during the Pats Super Bowl runs.

 

[packerzrule]

I assume Mason Crosby was the MVP on Sunday?

damn near

 

[CowboyB]

damn near

In Rodgers defense he certainly wasn't a game manager like the majority of Brady's most successful years. But I appreciate the consistency.

 

[soxfan1468927]

12th,13th,&14th is average.

Sure, but it's not THAT much different from 8th is it? The difference between the Packers and Patriots in 2014 was 2 points per game. The difference between the Patriots and Packers last year was 0.5 points per game. And one was "Top 10" and the other wasn't. Point being that if you just label teams "Top 10" and "Not Top 10" and pretend like their is a large gap, it's being dishonest.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Tom Brad's legacy is forever tainted. Barry Bonds isn't the best homerun hitter, Lance isn't the best cyclist, and Brady isn't the GOAT.

You can live in fantasy land all you want if it makes you feel better. Facts are not debatable.

 

[CowboyB]

Sure, but it's not THAT much different from 8th is it? The difference between the Packers and Patriots in 2014 was 2 points per game. The difference between the Patriots and Packers last year was 0.5 points per game. And one was "Top 10" and the other wasn't. Point being that if you just label teams "Top 10" and "Not Top 10" and pretend like their is a large gap, it's being dishonest.

The Patriots had a shitty D in 2014. But everyone knows the Seahawks lost that game instead of Brady winning it. If you don't like that then Malcolm Butler won it..... Not Brady. Or bellichick..... Not Brady.

Compare Rodgers d in super bowl winning years with Brady's 1st 3..

 

[CowboyB]

View attachment 153921

You can live in fantasy land all you want if it makes you feel better. Facts are not debatable.

Are you capable less of reading words and comprehending them. This post leaves me to believe you are not capable capable.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Tom Brad's legacy is forever tainted. Barry Bonds isn't the best homerun hitter, Lance isn't the best cyclist, and Brady isn't the GOAT.

And yet you are unable to list one example of why.


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