IF this continues ...

[JohnU]

I think a lot of Yankees fans dismiss all this about payroll and such by just saying "we win, you don't. You are just jealous."

Years back, I think I might have agreed. Beating them was beating the best, and they were the best because in the olden days, they made a profit by having a huge stadium, a huge fan base and the ability to hire more scouts. Lots of other reasons, not really worth repeating.

 

[Redsfan1507]

How long has it been since the Yankees won a world series ? I don't even remember. They no longer have a monopoly on the WS...haven't really for a long time. Huge dynasty from 20's through the early 60's...for a minute in the Reggie days, and a few sporadic times since.

Lets be honest, the Redsox have been one of the bigger spenders for seemingly forever, and the Orioles were a decade long dynasty after the Mantle Yankees expired, but other than an occasional aberration by have the Yankees really had much ALE competition ? Yeah, I know about the Rays once in a blue moon, but really, they have been similar to the Cardinals mostly playing a 2 team division. IMO, I think ancient history clouds more recent truths about Yankee "greatness".

I have more faith in the longevity of organizations with consistent histories of sound farm producing talent, and the good sense and payroll to keep the best ones and trade away lesser talents and overpaid ex-stars to more Theo-esc baseball "minds". I hate to say it, but the Cardinals fit that description. The Dodgers did for a long time, until they have succumbed to the "Director of Spending" kind of GM scheme. The A's and Rays have done a fair job recently, but need to be careful not to become a parody of their press by underspending (meaning undervaluing) their best investments, in favor of believing top talent can be picked up like the next cab. The BRM starved to death in that kind of "plan".

I like a lot of what I've seen in the Castellini/Jocketty regime in Cincinnati, but I'm far from confident about the future. In disappointed in the player development side if the Reds, who seem to misinterpret getting a prospect TO MLB as success, instead of getting SOLID talent to MLB. I'm also extremely frustrated with the apparent complacency with mediocrity or worse in the MLB dugout staff. In not at all comfortable with the Reds medical staff. They traded away a lot of upper level farm talent for players that need to produce a winner in the very near term (1-4 years), and I fear wasting that lifespan underperforming, then having a gap in farm talent. Sometimes that results in ownership changes, and that can lead to where the Reds just got up from. KC and Piitsburgh are formerly impressive organizations that have dissapeared into irrelevance for decades in the same scenario.

 

[JohnU]

Without evaluating every organization, I find it amusing that these second-division teams find a way lately to hire these "young turks" to be GM's. These guys all think they are the next Billy Beane. Buy low, fix cheap, offer good wholesome family fun and promise that the team is a couple of years away.

Like the Royals, who have been a year away since 1994 and keep selling the lie.
The newest Mister Baseball is Jeff Luchnow at Houston, who has as much business running a front office as Barney Fife.

Theo is the primma donna of the "forgot to shave today" GM's.

And ... oh ... every team in baseball has this lockdown, can't-miss farm system that stupid fans keep buying. Then they all end up hitting .233 like Eric Hosmer and the scribes all wonder what went wrong with the plan.

But, yeah ... the Yanks don't win the W.S. every year now but they are in post-season every year.
That's not what I hope becomes of our Reds, but a step at a time ... even so, the window slams on your fingers pretty quickly.

 

[chico ruiz]

i get to see a lot of mlb. i check the individual hitting charts on how the starting line-up has done against the opposing starting pitcher, and vice versa. it gives good insight on how a manager fills it out. it also gives you a good feel for weaknesses mgrs. are trying to exploit, etc. why not? i know i'm going to the ballpark and i have a few hours to kill. i keep a open minded perspective of what's going on around the league. trends (like the precipitous IP decline since the 80's), not hype or a perceived entertainment media white washing. examples: strasburg, and there's really only a handful of truly A-list hitters in mlb. more, i'm not so cynical to believe that terry reynolds was spinning an interview with baseball prospectus on young minor leaguers. in fact, reynolds doesn't hype anyone in the article. did you read the interview? do you know who reynolds is? the article i read was a realistic "we'll see," but i think we have decent talent, and are deeper than a few years ago, description of the reds system in 2010. reynolds makes it crystal clear that they all have a lot to work on. your intractability, which i assume is based on your milb years, is sometimes ill-considered.

regardless, here's a quick list of homegrown yankee pitchers on the 2009 wsc roster (aceves, chamberlain, coke, hughes, pettite, rivera, and robertson). because that's what counts. right? winning the championship. everything else is falling short or second place. pettite won 2 games & chamberlain shut down 3 rallies. rivera saved 2 games / era zero. robertson had an era of zero. aceves had an era of zero. no mr. 1507, there is more than just a 'captain' from the y's system. 7 homegrown yankee pitchers were on that wsc roster. i'm a reds fan first. always have been, always will be. i just happen to be based in nyc, and understand the inner workings of the y organization. the 'money doesn't buy you championships' adage is absolutely true. i'm referring to a minor league system that has contributed to the development of many good mlb players and wins. not, so-called 'stars.' most importantly, they develop 'team' players. no mlb team goes to the playoffs that many consecutive years based on money. it helps, but take a closer look at the 2013 dodgers, angels, nationals, and tigers.

 

[Redsfan1507]

So when was the last NYY WS title ? I could look it up, but i'm sure you know.

I do admire the Yankees legacy of championships, albeit predominantly before my time, but just don't relate to the business model they operate under. They have a lot of fans, as the huge metro NYC and their relentless pursuit of winning at the highest level, and equally relentless level of spending. I'd say just guessing, they've spent more dollars per World Series wins in the last 10 years, as the next 2 or more teams combined... and haven't exactly dominated getting there. They get the most media attention, because they are in possibly the largest media center in the world. It just seems MLB seems to be overly predisposed to spin in the Yankees orbit, without enough gravity to hold it there. Money, maybe yes...championship dominance, not so much.

No doubt, my Midwest / Appalachian / Native / small town, country-azz has been biased to believe there should be more accolades for competence, ethics, truth, justice, apple pie and the overachieving underdog, than is realistic. I used to tell an old ex-basketball playing buddy of mine if I was his size (6'8) I could dunk with my elbow, and he countered by telling me if he was my size, his Johnson would still be closer to the ground than mine. It's a relative argument based on perspectives that can never be perfectly understood from another vantage point.

I just don't like the Yankees. I think they're overrated.

 

[JohnU]

I don't think finding players who were members of championship teams is a true barometer. Not always. It depends in large part on how the player fits into that roster and how the roster plays the season. The difference between being on a .500 team and a divisional title team is about 2 wins a month.

The teams that win 16 games a month are contenders. In that respect, what we see frequently is how teams prepare for and execute the long season. If this is about the Reds, they aren't a clear-cut choice to pull it off. Two out of three to the playoffs is a nice trend, however.

The nature of the farm system is peculiar. They all work the same way from the fundamentals. But it's about scouting, luck, injuries, overall system philosophy and patience. Lots of pro pitchers are pitching because they can't hit. The Reds drafted a kid this year in the 2nd round who may truthfully be that sort of player. If he can't get hitters out, he is a bust.

Aroldis Chapman was a first baseman in youth ball.

Part of this isn't about the Yankees. I think their business model since the 1980s is arguably hurtful for MLB. Their traditional business model prior to 1965 was annoying in its simplicity and efficiency. In both cases, they won because their competition was overmatched on the field and in the front office.

It's not hard to see who's failing now and why. And why the winners keep winning.