I think Palmer just took the lead for MVP

[Money]

Palmer is on a completely different level than Cam...

This is very debatable, but even if this is true, he still isn't more valuable to his team than Cam is to Carolina.

 

[Money]

This is the most frustrating logic for a fan to have ever. If MVP voting comes down to hypothetical situations like the one you just mentioned then I quit. So we're going to punish Palmer for having some good WR's and a solid O-line? Ok.

It's called comparing apples to oranges. You can't just rely on stats to decide everything when there are so many variables in play. It's just not that easy. People need to use their noggins a bit.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

- Carson Palmer has had 12 games with a QB rating over 98 (Cards are 12-0 in those games)
- The Cardinals are 1-2 this year when Palmer has a QB rating under 98
- Palmer has 1 game all year under 60 % completion percentage (59 % week 1)

- The Panthers are 6-1 when Cam Newton has a QB rating under 80
- Cam has had 8 of 15 games with a QB rating over 97
- Cam has had a total of 5 games over 60 % completion

Top 3 in QBR this year is
1. Palmer (83.1)
2. Big Ben (75)
3. R. Wilson (73.6)

13. Cam Newton (65.3)

- Palmer has had 2 games all season with a QBR under 73 (Cards lost both games)
- Cam has had 9 games with a QB under 73 (Panthers are 8-1 in those games)

- Cam has had 7 games with a QBR under 50 (42.4, 49.1, 19.7, 49.5, 27.8, 33.9, and 39.2). The Panthers are 6-1 in those games
- Palmer has not had a QBR under 50 since week 4 of 2014

To have a better gauge of what kind of QB has QBRs in the 40-50 range. The list includes Colin Kaepernick (47.6), Blaine Gabbert (43.1), Brock Osweiler (50.3)


Cam is certainly deserving of being in the discussion considering what he has been able to do with the depleted core of wide receivers around him. However, when you look at which QB has contributed more towards their team winning it is Palmer.

The Cards don't win when Palmer has an off day. Cam has had wins where he has thrown 1 td 2 int and 1 td 3 int. Cam has had multiple wins when he has finished with a QBR under 50. Meaning he is playing like Colin Kaepernick and the Panthers are 6-1 in those games.

Cam is probably going to end up winning it, but the numbers and the eye test show that Palmer is more deserving.

Wow. When you break it down like that, it's pretty eye opening.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Russell has been to the playoffs every year he has been in the league.
2-0 in NFCCG'c.
1-1, in Super Bowls.
I'm not saying RW should be in the discussion of MVP, but what do you mean when you say CP and CM have resume's but RW does not???

I am sure He meant resumes for this year.

 

[Money]

- Cam has had 7 games with a QBR under 50 (42.4, 49.1, 19.7, 49.5, 27.8, 33.9, and 39.2). The Panthers are 6-1 in those games
- Palmer has not had a QBR under 50 since week 4 of 2014

To have a better gauge of what kind of QB has QBRs in the 40-50 range. The list includes Colin Kaepernick (47.6), Blaine Gabbert (43.1), Brock Osweiler (50.3)

I couldn't come up with a better reason why people can't just look at stats. By these numbers, Cam belongs with the likes of these 3 guys??? Sorry people...there is no magical stat you can look at and take 2 seconds to form your opinion. You are actually going to have to think. Every statistical argument against Cam could have been made against Favre in his playing days.

If the success of play in Carolina's offense doesn't rely mostly on Cam, then it is relying mostly on the threat of Cam.

 

[The Q]

There was a pivotal fumble by Cam in the 4th quarter, with less than 7 minutes left and the Panthers up by 14 points. Cam gave the Giants the ball 14 yards away from the endzone. That Panther drive started with their defense getting an interception.

The Giants got the TD, kicked off to the Panthers, and then promptly go 3 and out (with Cam throwing two incomplete passes, and Cam running on the other play). They managed to run less than a minute off the clock. So yes I blame Cam.

Panthers-Giants Play-by-play

Then look at the last four drives by the Panthers against the Falcons. Its awful.

Cam's number on the year are not good. He really shouldn't even be in the conversation for MVP

They blamed Cam for the running backing fumbling that ball?

Cam is a fraud, but that was 100% on Artis-Payne.

Newton was running way from the play and had no idea the ball was on the ground.

 

[The Q]

Russell has been to the playoffs every year he has been in the league.
2-0 in NFCCG'c.
1-1, in Super Bowls.
I'm not saying RW should be in the discussion of MVP, but what do you mean when you say CP and CM have resume's but RW does not???

and the worst decision in SB history...

 

[redseat]

should go to Palmer but we all know how the vote works... it's a popularity contest! That's why Cam and Brady are still in the running

 

[redseat]

and the worst decision in SB history...

Would not say worst.... Butler just made one hell of a read and jumped the route! if he was a MILLA SECOND later Seahawks win

 

[The Q]

He ran through the player coming from behind and got there before the ball got there.

Clear DPI...but not what the NFL wanted.

Hell if they did what was right, Brady would've been on the AP list for that game.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

It's called comparing apples to oranges. You can't just rely on stats to decide everything when there are so many variables in play. It's just not that easy. People need to use their noggins a bit.

Some of us ran all the variables including the stats in regards to the competition they both faced. When you actually take the time to add those variables. As well as others its really quite clear Cam is over rated. He's A product of poor competition and media hype. Palmers the real deal

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Wow. When you break it down like that, it's pretty eye opening.

Break down the teams,their opponents records and the rankings of the defenses they've both played. Its even more eye opening. When you do that its an even bigger achievement that Palmers stats are impressive. And Cams stats look even more disappointing. And to say cam doesn't have weapons is A lie thats in the stats too.

 

[Money]

Break down the teams,their opponents records and the rankings of the defenses they've both played. Its even more eye opening. When you do that its an even bigger achievement that Palmers stats are impressive. And Cams stats look even more disappointing. And to say cam doesn't have weapons is A lie thats in the stats too.

Have you actually done this, because I don't see an impressive defense on their schedule other than Seattle. I do know he got to go up against Balt, Pitt and Cleveland as well as the 9ers twice, Saints, Eagles and Lions (off the top of my head).

 

[The Q]

Break down the teams,their opponents records and the rankings of the defenses they've both played. Its even more eye opening. When you do that its an even bigger achievement that Palmers stats are impressive. And Cams stats look even more disappointing. And to say cam doesn't have weapons is A lie thats in the stats too.

What weapons?

Brady's #3 WR was the Panthers former #1.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Have you actually done this, because I don't see an impressive defense on their schedule other than Seattle. I do know he got to go up against Balt, Pitt and Cleveland as well as the 9ers twice, Saints, Eagles and Lions (off the top of my head).

Yes I have its not seeming like you actually have tho. You do realize 5 of cams games were against the 5 worst defenses in the NFL correct? That he plaed the 2 worst conferences as a whole in the NFC east and AFC south. Neither of which has a team over 500 this season. Palmer faced A much stronger NFC north and Afc north and A division rival Seattle who will make the playoffs. Theres A ton of variables you can run that show the real story you're missing A lot

 

[sonnyblack65]

should go to Palmer but we all know how the vote works... it's a popularity contest! That's why Cam and Brady are still in the running

I hate to say it but i think it"s Cam's to lose. Palmer and Brady have similar no#s but more weapons on offense. Brady has the most yards, most passing td's and least int despite having Edelman and Amendola out , But Cam has the most combined Td's and yards and big reason Carolina is 14-1

 

[Money]

Yes I have its not seeming like you actually have tho. You do realize 5 of cams games were against the 5 worst defenses in the NFL correct? That he plaed the 2 worst conferences as a whole in the NFC east and AFC south. Neither of which has a team over 500 this season. Palmer faced A much stronger NFC north and Afc north and A division rival Seattle who will make the playoffs. Theres A ton of variables you can run that show the real story you're missing A lot

Well this is incorrect right off the bat. Pittsburgh is the 3rd worst passing defense and it was Arizona (not Carolina) that got to play them. The AFCN may be a stronger division (than the AFCS), but it isn't because of passing defense. Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cleveland have been horrendous.

Neither QB has played very good passing defenses for the most part, so it's not a point worth even bringing up if you ask me.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Well this is incorrect right off the bat. Pittsburgh is the 3rd worst passing defense and it was Arizona (not Carolina) that got to play them. The AFCN may be a stronger division (than the AFCS), but it isn't because of passing defense. Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cleveland have been horrendous.

Neither QB has played very good passing defenses for the most part, so it's not a point worth even bringing up if you ask me.

Pittsburgh is also in the playoff race are you denying the AFC North and NFC North are stronger conferences than the NFC East and AFC south?

 

[Money]

Pittsburgh is also in the playoff race are you denying the AFC North and NFC North are stronger conferences than the NFC East and AFC south?

Pittsburgh is in the playoff race because of their offense (not passing defense), so I fail to see why you bring this up as a point when it comes to this discussion.

 

[redseat]

I hate to say it but i think it"s Cam's to lose. Palmer and Brady have similar no#s but more weapons on offense. Brady has the most yards, most passing td's and least int despite having Edelman and Amendola out , But Cam has the most combined Td's and yards and big reason Carolina is 14-1

Another reason why Cam is still in the running