I know it is only week 4

[Sportster 72]

clearly the problem wasn't Shanahan. The solution wasn't Shanahan, well maybe before Robert trashed him. He did lead the team to a Division title before the wheels came off of the Shanahan bus.

Right now I don't think it is too early to question everything from Allen to the ST coach. Remember how the Russians had a 5 year plan? We better start a new one.

 

[skinsdad62]

year one you see what you need . year 2 you gather the players and year 3 you make the run

 

[countryroads316]

its the same crap we been saying for several years now fix the freaking o-line and the secondary

 

[j_y19]

year one you see what you need . year 2 you gather the players and year 3 you make the run

I don't buy that. This is not year 1 for Allen. Every fan on the planet knew what we needed. We went out and drafted a luxury OLB with our first pick when the OL and safety positions have been killing us for years. Nothing against Murphy and I get the BPA strategy, but as someone said above, these two position have been achilles heels for us for years. Dad, I think its is you who says good teams build from the LOS out.

 

[Sportster 72]

Yeah this is not really year one. Allen has had a lot more say about this team then he was giving credit for. How many Tampa connections have been added to the team even during the Shanahan years? I have my own set of CSI theories about all that but we'll save that for another time.

I am over the emotion of the game and a little more in my right mind. My early thoughts during the game was the Redskins didn't look prepared. I wondered if a new HC knew how to prep for a short week. I am sure he has been involved in them but he wasn't responisible an entire team. Maybe ... just maybe with all the injuries in the Philly game they took it too easy getting ready for the Giants. It's a theory not a fact. Clearly the Giants were much better prepared.

I have said a few times that I am a Cousins fan. Not a Cousins homer but a fan. I know that he has a rep for turning over the ball. Obviously he exhibited that last night. He reminds me of Rex, he'll do some really good stuff then just force a ball or be inaccurate right into an INT.

There are tons of other problems. The Oline is playing poorly overall. The Dline is beat up. The LBs overall were a disappointment and the highest paid one has really been a disappointment. Don't you wonder how Raheem Morris, Haslett and Biggers all stay employed .... oh yeah the Tampa connection. The DBs were putrid but I think the coaches did not put them in the best possible spot.

We have 10 days to prep for what might be the best team in the NFL right now. I am going to wipe the slate clean and hope that a little longer layoff and normal preparation will help the team.

It sure was an ugly game. Any chance Snyder gets bored with the team and sells it?

I'll bet the Shanahan's are laughing a little now.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah this is not really year one. Allen has had a lot more say about this team then he was giving credit for. How many Tampa connections have been added to the team even during the Shanahan years? I have my own set of CSI theories about all that but we'll save that for another time.

I am over the emotion of the game and a little more in my right mind. My early thoughts during the game was the Redskins didn't look prepared. I wondered if a new HC knew how to prep for a short week. I am sure he has been involved in them but he wasn't responisible an entire team. Maybe ... just maybe with all the injuries in the Philly game they took it too easy getting ready for the Giants. It's a theory not a fact. Clearly the Giants were much better prepared.

I have said a few times that I am a Cousins fan. Not a Cousins homer but a fan. I know that he has a rep for turning over the ball. Obviously he exhibited that last night. He reminds me of Rex, he'll do some really good stuff then just force a ball or be inaccurate right into an INT.

There are tons of other problems. The Oline is playing poorly overall. The Dline is beat up. The LBs overall were a disappointment and the highest paid one has really been a disappointment. Don't you wonder how Raheem Morris, Haslett and Biggers all stay employed .... oh yeah the Tampa connection. The DBs were putrid but I think the coaches did not put them in the best possible spot.

We have 10 days to prep for what might be the best team in the NFL right now. I am going to wipe the slate clean and hope that a little longer layoff and normal preparation will help the team.

It sure was an ugly game. Any chance Snyder gets bored with the team and sells it?

I'll bet the Shanahan's are laughing a little now.

Fair analysis. as for a new HC not sure how to prepare for a short week, remember that he has 2 ex HCs on his staff, Haslett and Raheem. Clearly Gruden is experiencing growing pains. I'm willing to give him a chance to grow into the job. I am concerned that he is both the HC and defacto OC. I can't help but wonder if he is stretched too thin and is sacrificing time over the D and STs and has reverted to focusing on his comfort zone, the offense. I also think we are seeing the Haslett that many of us were concerned about. He was out coached last night. We also have the same DB coach and same OL coach. Interesting how those are our 2 weakest units.

I wish Danny would sell, but this team is still a cash cow and Danny is a business man first. As for the Shanahans, I'm sure there is some smirks on their faces right now. How about how Kyle is doing in Cincy?

 

[KickSaveDave]

year one you see what you need . year 2 you gather the players and year 3 you make the run

That would apply maybe if all the systems were completely new and the GM was new. We have the same shitty defense, and the running game on offense is the same. All that's different is the passing game and we signed two solid WRs to help there. We still suck. Bruce Allen knew what holes we had, he owns them.

Its organizational. Its top down. There is a pox on this franchise. Good players and good coaches come here and become shit.

 

[skinsdad62]

I don't buy that. This is not year 1 for Allen. Every fan on the planet knew what we needed. We went out and drafted a luxury OLB with our first pick when the OL and safety positions have been killing us for years. Nothing against Murphy and I get the BPA strategy, but as someone said above, these two position have been achilles heels for us for years. Dad, I think its is you who says good teams build from the LOS out.

shanny drafted the players not allen

my next question is when does it end ?

they drafted 2 o/lineman , and we are 4 games into the regime but lets fire the GM ?

i dont think half you guys know what you want

 

[KickSaveDave]

shanny drafted the players not allen

my next question is when does it end ?

they drafted 2 o/lineman , and we are 4 games into the regime but lets fire the GM ?

i dont think half you guys know what you want

People are just frustrated. They see teams all over the league hire a new coach and instantly find success. Chip Kelly and the Eagles being just the closest example. Why is Chip Kelly successful with the Eagles, but Steve Spurrier such a failure with the Skins? Why does retread Pete Carroll win a Super Bowl with Seattle, but retread Mike Shanahan is an embarrassment with the Skins?

People want a GM who can override the misery that is Dan Snyder, but making every decision perfectly and hiring the perfect coach and scouts that bring us back to glory. Since that's clearly not happening with Bruce (in 5 years) people are frustrated and ready to do anything to have some success.

 

[j_y19]

I know exactly what I want. A redskins team that is competitive and is in a playoff hunt consistently. I'm also not advocating the firing of Allen. All I'm pointing out is that it is only year 1 of Gruden. Allen has been here 5 years, so he knows exactly what we need. Hell, we all know what our weaknesses are as they have been the same weaknesses forever. OL and secondary. As you have pointed out repeatedly, we need to build from the LOS out. So to take an OLB with our first pick when we have to very good OLBs was a luxury. That player needed to be a contributor immediately. Murphy may turn out to be a fine player, but that most likely won't be for a few years. He also might have been there with our 3rd round pick. However, we could have picked up a G, C or T that could have made a difference this year and be the second building block (T Williams) to a solid Oline for years. With our first pick, we could have had Bitonio who is starting G for Cleveland or Richburg who is starting C for the Giants. Sometimes it just seems we try and be too smart rather than just take the boring, solid pick. This is why I don't buy your 3 year play for this team. If the entire FO and Coaching staff were new, I would agree, but basically only the HC is new. The FO and Coordinators have all been here for years. This team has talent. But they have a couple of gaping holes that they have had for years and have never really been successfully addressed.

 

[Sharkinva]

The problem is we have been hearing the 1-2-3 year's and build the LOS mantra since back when we had Samuels and Jansen as our book ends and were sporting a top ten defense consistently at the time as well.

 

[Stymietee]

The problem is we have been hearing the 1-2-3 year's and build the LOS mantra since back when we had Samuels and Jansen as our book ends and were sporting a top ten defense consistently at the time as well.

Agreed....agreed, however what the team lacked then was QB, WR's, yeah I know Moss and Cooley/Davis, but truthfully Moss has never been a #1 type receiver, excepting the bias for wearing our colors, so a serviceable WR and a TE. Clinton Portis? great guy, lots of heart, but the plan coming in for every team was to stack the line and dare the passing game to beat them, which in most games it could not.

 

[Stymietee]

People want a GM who can override the misery that is Dan Snyder, but making every decision perfectly and hiring the perfect coach and scouts that bring us back to glory. Since that's clearly not happening with Bruce (in 5 years) people are frustrated and ready to do anything to have some success.

Bruce has at least matched the misery that is Dan Snyder! He and his staff apparently have a serious disconnect from doing their jobs and doing their NFL related jobs. His directives to the scouting dept. should be; Find me behemoths on both sides of the ball who are foaming at the mouth from hunger, being released from or about to go into a state or federal institution and will rip an man's head off for merely thinking about getting past him. Hire the best lawyers money can buy for their legal issues, a shitload of cages to house them in and a few lion tamers to get them on the field.

You get my point, this nicest guy in the world off of the field is great, but having a few guys of questionable character to bolster your O & D lines will definitely win you some games.

 

[Stymietee]

shanny drafted the players not allen

my next question is when does it end ?

they drafted 2 o/lineman , and we are 4 games into the regime but lets fire the GM ?

i dont think half you guys know what you want

I agree that Shanny drafted the players, but didn't the end result become that we had the lightest/smallest OLine in the game? Are they still here?

It ends when there is measurable competence coming out of the FO in either decision making or actions, preferably both, is that too much to ask?

They did indeed draft 2 OLinemen, but if either could breathe and walk at the same time they should have easily beat out the turnstiles in front of them. Rookies do start in this league don't they?

Yes fire the GM, tell me what his on field, consistently productive picks have been in 5 years? Shanny's selections excepted.
Remember we can't fire the owner.

You're probably right about some people here not knowing what they want, but not for the reasons that some might think of. To some they have only experienced futility as followers of this team. On that basis I would suggest that for them to have never seen consistent progress it would be hard to recognize what they want. Might it be better to suggest that they know what they no longer want? We can all answer that!

 

[Sportster 72]

When Cerrato was let go we rejoiced and said "now we will get better." I am not going to go into the CSI era ofShanahan, Griffin and Allen. All I know is in year three of the Shanahan era we won the NFC title and had a star QB. Then the wheels came off and they still aren't on. Common thread - 15 years later the same provlems exist and only one guy has been there that long.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Maybe Dan Synder really is the problem, we can't draft, we can't make good FA choices, our OC/DC choices are shaky and we are only consistent at being bad

 

[skinsdad62]

I know exactly what I want. A redskins team that is competitive and is in a playoff hunt consistently. I'm also not advocating the firing of Allen. All I'm pointing out is that it is only year 1 of Gruden. Allen has been here 5 years, so he knows exactly what we need. Hell, we all know what our weaknesses are as they have been the same weaknesses forever. OL and secondary. As you have pointed out repeatedly, we need to build from the LOS out. So to take an OLB with our first pick when we have to very good OLBs was a luxury. That player needed to be a contributor immediately. Murphy may turn out to be a fine player, but that most likely won't be for a few years. He also might have been there with our 3rd round pick. However, we could have picked up a G, C or T that could have made a difference this year and be the second building block (T Williams) to a solid Oline for years. With our first pick, we could have had Bitonio who is starting G for Cleveland or Richburg who is starting C for the Giants. Sometimes it just seems we try and be too smart rather than just take the boring, solid pick. This is why I don't buy your 3 year play for this team. If the entire FO and Coaching staff were new, I would agree, but basically only the HC is new. The FO and Coordinators have all been here for years. This team has talent. But they have a couple of gaping holes that they have had for years and have never really been successfully addressed.

in my new thread coming up i will tell you my plan for making that happen

 

[skinsdad62]

The problem is we have been hearing the 1-2-3 year's and build the LOS mantra since back when we had Samuels and Jansen as our book ends and were sporting a top ten defense consistently at the time as well.

and we have never done it shark , we have ignored the LOS , traded draft picks away for old players and we change HC 's over and over

and those top ten defense didnt get turnovers or sacks but i can live with that

and if you junk gruden and allen then what ? another 3 years is in the waiting

chip kelly's are few and far between

the only problem with 3 year plans are fans who cant be patient for anything and until that happens we will continue as losers

 

[Sportster 72]

I am not advocating firing anyone. I have great fondness for the Allen family and what they did for the Redskins .... 40 years ago. I like Bruce and am glad he is in the organization but I am afraid he has become Snyder's new Vinny. I want him in charge of contracts and being an executive for the team.

Not sure how much longer you want the fans to be patient dad or why that is even important. Fans have opinions they don't make football decsions.

The guy that needs to have a plan and then stick to is Dan Snyder. Please tell me when he has ever done that? He makes the decisions. If he doesn't do anymore than hire a GM then that is his decision. What made Jack Kent Cooke a good owner? He hired football men to run the football team and let them do that. Much like Bob Kraft, Mara (as much as I hate to say it), Dan Rooney and Steve Bischiotti. What a shock, there are most of the Super Bowl winning owners during the Snyder era.

 

[Sharkinva]

and we have never done it shark , we have ignored the LOS , traded draft picks away for old players and we change HC 's over and over

and those top ten defense didnt get turnovers or sacks but i can live with that

and if you junk gruden and allen then what ? another 3 years is in the waiting

chip kelly's are few and far between

the only problem with 3 year plans are fans who cant be patient for anything and until that happens we will continue as losers

The problem is, your perfect plan wont work in a 3 year span. the level of talent you want will take 4-5 years to build if EVERY pick and FA works out. And then once you have the ultimate O-line, they get old waiting for you to find, a QB, WRs another RB and god knows what you need on defense. Build the LOS and all will be well is what people tell themselves to make them feel better about a team that just isnt getting it done.