I GUARANTEE WITH JOE MADDEN...

[Rex Racer]

Whats wrong with Maddon? He has an incredible rep, and he has won with not-much. As I mentioned in another thread, I think he is about the 3rd best manager in the game today (behind Bochy and Showwalter).

He had a roster and a minor league system stocked with top of each round draft talent when he showed up and all he managed to do is...................well, nuthin.

Not sure how you can say that Tampa's roster was "not-much". The pitching staff was loaded, Longoria, Pena, Upton etc. They had a ton of talent on that team and the only time he got them to the WS, they lose to the freakin Phillies?????? Oh man.

 

[anotheridiot]

You take really good managers that were good with prospects and second tier players and just expect the 25 million per year pitchers are just gonna buy in to all the snake charming in the clubhouse.

Could Maddon have created a dynasty if Tampa Bay kept their players instead of letting them go when it was time to be paid, or would they have a bunch of underachievers, Maddon only coaches at .517 clip.

Its a question the fans need to answer that want the cubs to go get Lester, Scherzer, Shields and then Price next year.

 

[anotheridiot]

Makes you wonder what the "organization" is gonna do if a better president or general manager becomes available.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

He was 3rd in the NL in OPS+, 4th in OBP, 4th in SLG%, and 2nd in home runs. He's also a pretty solid defensive 1B.

Maybe star isn't the right word, but he's establishing himself as one of the 1B and hitters in the league IMO.

Yeah definitely but that's why I was ok with the initial future star comment.

The guys is building up his numbers but really scratching the surface to what he can do. Maddon is hopping in at right time in terms of rizzos development.

 

[williewilliejuan]

Did the giants have any pitchers better than 1 really?

I suppose if you only consider starters. However, Boch had the luxury of turning to one of the best bullpens in baseball when one of the starters not named Bumgarner started to struggle.

 

[HammerDown]

So the facts are coming out and everyone is SO shocked that Theo and Maddon are involved in a dirty-as-hell deal here.

 

[clemtheslowson]

So the facts are coming out and everyone is SO shocked that Theo and Maddon are involved in a dirty-as-hell deal here.

I for one am NOT shocked.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

The thing worse than the Cubs is Joe Maddon. I really hate to see that douchebag come to the NL.

Who can't love "Joe Cool"?

2-time AL manager of the year and a hangs a World Championship banner in his office. Cubbies done good here. The Cubs have a ton of young talent and will buy their "top notch" pitching staff this offseason.

Say hello to the new "Oakland A's" of the NL.

 

[clemtheslowson]

Who can't love "Joe Cool"?

2-time AL manager of the year and a hangs a World Championship banner in his office. Cubbies done good here. The Cubs have a ton of young talent and will buy their "top notch" pitching staff this offseason.

Say hello to the new "Oakland A's" of the NL.

He is an arrogant douche.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He had a roster and a minor league system stocked with top of each round draft talent when he showed up and all he managed to do is...................well, nuthin.

Not sure how you can say that Tampa's roster was "not-much". The pitching staff was loaded, Longoria, Pena, Upton etc. They had a ton of talent on that team and the only time he got them to the WS, they lose to the freakin Phillies?????? Oh man.

If you think Pena was some established star or something before playing for Madden, then baseball isn't your thing.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Im talking about future Next level top 5 player star. He is good right now but Im talking about in a couple of years I think he will be up there with Trout and Harper.

Harper shouldn't be mentioned with Trout.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Sorry, my bad. In my mind, not all 1's are Aces. Aces are superstars that tend to own games they pitch. Det, LA and maybe Oakland were the only teams in this year's playoffs with multiple Aces and SF and StL were the only teams in the LCSs with an Ace.

IMHO, neither Zimm nor Stras are currently Aces. Solid 1's, yes, and may very well be Aces next year, but are not Aces right now.

How on earth is a guy who's got a .672 win % and 131 ERA+ the past 3 years not an "ace?" Not to mention Zimmerman threw 8.2 innings of 1-run ball in his only playoff start this year.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He had a roster and a minor league system stocked with top of each round draft talent when he showed up and all he managed to do is...................well, nuthin.

Not sure how you can say that Tampa's roster was "not-much". The pitching staff was loaded, Longoria, Pena, Upton etc. They had a ton of talent on that team and the only time he got them to the WS, they lose to the freakin Phillies?????? Oh man.

BJ Upton's had one good season in his entire career...and he's one of the first three guys you mention as an argument for those Rays teams being "loaded?"

Here are some of the players that received significant playing time on the Rays team that went to the WS:
-Donier Navarro (120 games)
-Jason Bartlett (128 games)
-Akinori Iwamura (152 games)
-Gabe Gross (127 games)
-Eric Hinske (133 games)
-Willy Aybar (95 games)
-Andy Sonnastine (32 starts)
-Edwin Jackson (31 starts)
-Dan Wheeler (70 games out of the pen)
-Trever Miller (68 games out of the pen)
And they had a washed up 38 year old Troy Percival as closer.

Such an elite group of players, as you can tell :rollseyes:


Like I said, this baseball thing's not working out if you're going to make asinine claims.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Chicago prospects, for the most part, are usually busts. that is why I never trust them.


Sox-Borchard, Fields, Owens, Sweeney, Anderson, Beckham, etc


Cubs- Felix Pie, Corey Patterson, Jake Fox, Angel Guzman,

Which one of those prospects were held in the same regard as Kris Bryant, Jorge Soler or Addison Russell?

None

 

[StanMarsh51]

Which one of those prospects were held in the same regard as Kris Bryant, Jorge Soler or Addison Russell?

None

In all fairness, Patterson was rated as the #2 prospect in baseball in 2001 and #3 in 2000 by BaseballAmerica, and those were pretty strong prospect years (especially 2001, which was stacked with Hamilton, Pujols, Ichiro, CC, Oswalt, Sheets, Soriano, Peavy, Dunn, Beckett, Vernon Wells).

Patterson was also #16 in the 1999 ranking, which included Beltran, Berkman,, Halladay, JD Drew, Eric Chavez, Burrell, Mulder, Carlos Lee, Jayson Werth, Mike Lowell...another strong class.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Which one of those prospects were held in the same regard as Kris Bryant, Jorge Soler or Addison Russell?

None

Doesn't matter how highly touted a prospect is until they prove it in the big leagues. Tommy Hanson was supposed to be the next big thing with the Braves. He declined in each year he pitch and wound up getting dumped for a middle reliever. Jason Heyward was baseball's top prospect. While he is a very good player, he isn't the elite front line player he was supposed to be. He has time, but he has a ways to go offensively.

 

[ChicagoIrish]

In all fairness, Patterson was rated as the #2 prospect in baseball in 2001 and #3 in 2000 by BaseballAmerica, and those were pretty strong prospect years (especially 2001, which was stacked with Hamilton, Pujols, Ichiro, CC, Oswalt, Sheets, Soriano, Peavy, Dunn, Beckett, Vernon Wells).

That's one prospect. So the Cubs were relying on Patterson, and really no one else.

Now, the Cubs have Bryant, Russell, Soler, Baez who are all highly touted and then they have other good looking prospects in Schwarber and McKinney.

So since you're arguing for podsox's point, you're telling me the odds of all these prospects busting, are the same odds of just one prospect? (Patterson).

 

[Mondo Jay]

Doesn't matter how highly touted a prospect is until they prove it in the big leagues. Tommy Hanson was supposed to be the next big thing with the Braves. He declined in each year he pitch and wound up getting dumped for a middle reliever. Jason Heyward was baseball's top prospect. While he is a very good player, he isn't the elite front line player he was supposed to be. He has time, but he has a ways to go offensively.

To be fair, Hanson was traded for a setup man...

 

[ChicagoIrish]

Doesn't matter how highly touted a prospect is until they prove it in the big leagues. Tommy Hanson was supposed to be the next big thing with the Braves. He declined in each year he pitch and wound up getting dumped for a middle reliever. Jason Heyward was baseball's top prospect. While he is a very good player, he isn't the elite front line player he was supposed to be. He has time, but he has a ways to go offensively.

And as I just said, the Cubs aren't just laying everything onto one prospect.

We have highly touted prospects oozing from our ass.

 

[StanMarsh51]

That's one prospect. So the Cubs were relying on Patterson, and really no one else.

Now, the Cubs have Bryant, Russell, Soler, Baez who are all highly touted and then they have other good looking prospects in Schwarber and McKinney.

So since you're arguing for podsox's point, you're telling me the odds of all these prospects busting, are the same odds of just one prospect? (Patterson).

Soler's ranked a little worse Felix Pie was ranked in his prospect days (Pie peaked as a #27 prospect, whereas Soler was 34th and 41st in his two years).

Jake Fox was never a top prospect, so I don't know where he got that from.

One he did forget was Juan Cruz, who was #6 and #17 in very good prospect years in 2001 and 2002 (2002 wen he was ranked 6th had Prior, Beckett, Mauer, Teixeira, Morneau, Jose Reyes, Cabrera, Wainwright).

I don't think it's just the Cubs..as we all know, many prospects on the whole don't pan out. Looking at 2006, you can argue that more than 25 of the top 40 ranked prospects were busts. Looking at 2007, only 4 of the top 10 ranked turned out to be 'good' players (and the best one of that bunch was Longoria). One can point to the Angels where they had prospects 'oozing out of their asses,' and many turned out busts (most notably Kotchman, Wood, McPhereson, Mathis).