How many Finals MVPs for Bill Russell if the Award was around at the time?

[MAGA2024]

It's Wilt and Jordan and then everybody else.

What were those guys' numbers in the Celtics series? Then that topic would be worth a discussion.

I'll admit it's not easy ro determine with certainty who would have have won FMVP each year based simply off the numbers (and without some context/perspective), since a lot of those numbers weren't tracked on the Defensive end where Russell excelled, and also due to Rebounding numbers being heavily inflated in the Era since so many shots were taken at very low FG%, but you can find the individual Game and Series stats for every Finals played here:

1957 NBA Finals - Hawks vs. Celtics | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1957 NBA Finals - Hawks vs. Celtics

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[MAGA2024]

Well…

That is because current rules reward skill over athleticism.

Less athletic players excelling today like Luka, Curry, Brunson etc are more skilled than anyone from Jordan’s era.

Playing solid Defense doesn't require "skill"... and in MJ's era (from the late 80's on, anyway) if you didn't bring-it consistently on the Defensive end you didn't play much unless you were a standout in other facets. Today if you can shoot the 3-ball at a 35%-40% clip there's a roster spot for you somewhere regardless of your effort on Defense.

Anyway, this topic came about because of the notion that Jordan (allegedly) wouldn't be nearly as dominant today because of athletic defenders. Well, Jordan was just as skilled (and more athletic) than Joker and Doncic and those two guys toy with all the athletic defenders today.

So the idea that Jordan would be far less dominant in this Era just doesn't hold water.

 

[Wamu]

He has me blocked it’s just funny watching people flip their arguments to support different players. He’s pro Russell and anti MJ and uses the same argument for both takes lol

He has you blocked? I might have to make fun of him for that.

And using the argument for both, come on now. He's gotta do better than that.

 

[msgkings322]

He has you blocked? I might have to make fun of him for that.

And using the argument for both, come on now. He's gotta do better than that.

When he first showed up it was coming in hot saying SGA would only win MVP because of anti-white racism (Jokic)

I clowned him and he blocked me. Big time pussy that one is.

 

[Wamu]

I'll admit it's not easy ro determine with certainty who would have have won FMVP each year based simply off the numbers (and without some context/perspective), since a lot of those numbers weren't tracked on the Defensive end where Russell excelled, and also due to Rebounding numbers being heavily inflated in the Era since so many shots were taken at very low FG%, but you can find the individual Game and Series stats for every Finals played here:

1957 NBA Finals - Hawks vs. Celtics | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1957 NBA Finals - Hawks vs. Celtics

www.basketball-reference.com

What I'm interested in are the stats from the 1947 Finals. Can you post that?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

When he first showed up it was coming in hot saying SGA would only win MVP because of anti-white racism (Jokic)

I clowned him and he blocked me. Big time pussy that one is.

Its ghosts of poverty fwiw. His profile is no longer searchable. So...makes sense given his earlier effort of multiple handles.

 

[Wamu]

When he first showed up it was coming in hot saying SGA would only win MVP because of anti-white racism (Jokic)

I clowned him and he blocked me. Big time pussy that one is.

I knew he was silly but I missed that dumbfuckery.

Shows how little he knows.

Jokic probably had the best year of career, which is crazy to say.

But SGA's the best player on the best team in the league putting up his own incredible numbers and fully deserved the MVP this season.

Seems he's just trying to start something using the race card. What a jackass.

 

[tlance]

Playing solid Defense doesn't require "skill"... and in MJ's era (from the late 80's on, anyway) if you didn't bring-it consistently on the Defensive end you didn't play much unless you were a standout in other facets. Today if you can shoot the 3-ball at a 35%-40% clip there's a roster spot for you somewhere regardless of your effort on Defense.

Anyway, this topic came about because of the notion that Jordan (allegedly) wouldn't be nearly as dominant today because of athletic defenders. Well, Jordan was just as skilled (and more athletic) than Joker and Doncic and those two guys toy with all the athletic defenders today.

So the idea that Jordan would be far less dominant in this Era just doesn't hold water.

Jordan was not as skilled as Jokic and Luka.

But also, they create space with their size and strength. Jordan did it with his speed and quickness.

Jordan was more like how Anthony Edwards or SGA plays today.

 

[msgkings322]

Its ghosts of poverty fwiw. His profile is no longer searchable. So...makes sense given his earlier effort of multiple handles.

He posts in a different style from GoP but it could be I guess

GoP never posted about sports that I recall, this guy is mostly sports focused

 

[Wamu]

Its ghosts of poverty fwiw. His profile is no longer searchable. So...makes sense given his earlier effort of multiple handles.

Then shouldn't he be in the PF's yelling at anyone not on his side?

 

[msgkings322]

Jordan was not as skilled as Jokic and Luka.

But also, they create space with their size and strength. Jordan did it with his speed and quickness.

Jordan was more like how Anthony Edwards or SGA plays today.

Hence my thread about Nate Silver showing SGA is playing like MJ...which turned into another super interesting MJ vs LeBron debate

 

[msgkings322]

I knew he was silly but I missed that dumbfuckery.

Shows how little he knows.

Jokic probably had the best year of career, which is crazy to say.

But SGA's the best player on the best team in the league putting up his own incredible numbers and fully deserved the MVP this season.

Seems he's just trying to start something using the race card. What a jackass.

He's full MAGA so it all fits together

But he's a Cavs fan so unlike most MAGAs he's team LeBron over team MJ

 

[MAGA2024]

Yeah people gotta stop saying that. He's the greatest winner of all time not the greatest player.

GOAT level Winner
GOAT level Defense
GOAT level Rebounding
5x MVP who would own at least 5 or more FMVPs (if the award was around)

Plus by all accounts he was a great Playmaker (especially for a Center), and for the talk about him not being a great Scorer, Russ averaged 20+ PPG in 3 different Finals series and actually led the Celtics (who were STACKED with Scorers) in PPG during the Finals two (2) different times.

That said, I don't consider him the GOAT over Jordan; however there's not many players who can compete with his body of work as a whole.

 

[Wamu]

He's full MAGA so it all fits together

But he's a Cavs fan so unlike most MAGAs -->he's team LeBron over team MJ

The topic's been discussed enough times.

And this Russell stuff, enough already.

 

[msgkings322]

The topic's been discussed enough times.

And this Russell stuff, enough already.

The GOAT debate is already boring to me no matter who is being discussed

 

[Wamu]

GOAT level Winner
GOAT level Defense
GOAT level Rebounding
5x MVP who would own at least 5 or more FMVPs (if the award was around)

Plus by all accounts he was a great Playmaker (especially for a Center), and for the talk about him not being a great Scorer, Russ averaged 20+ PPG in 3 different Finals series and actually led the Celtics (who were STACKED with Scorers) in PPG during the Finals two (2) different times.

That said,--> I don't consider him the GOAT over Jordan<--; however there's not many players who can compete with his body of work as a whole.

Then stop talking about it.

Like I have said before Russell's the greatest winner of all time not the greatest player.

You gotta start paying attention to his ppg average and his lousy FG%. Those two stats keep him out of the GOAT conversation.

 

[Wamu]

The GOAT debate is already boring to me no matter who is being discussed

Same here.

This is a bad idea for a different topic.

Have you ever considered ranking players by height?

 

[MAGA2024]

Jordan was not as skilled as Jokic and Luka.

But also, they create space with their size and strength. Jordan did it with his speed and quickness.

Jordan was more like how Anthony Edwards or SGA plays today.

Jordan most certainly utilized strength in a BIG way both in the Paint and in the Post because back then (especially the latter half of the 90's overall, and the EC in general throughout the 90's) the game was much more half-court oriented than anything you see today), where the Pace slowed and the floor was much more crowded. As such, Jordan had less room to operate (unlike today with soooo much Spacing you could drive a Semi through the lane and not touch a single defender - lol)... so he had to balance his speed/quickness (going right or left off the dribble) with more "skilled" shooting, like his lights-out 15-20 foot mid-range shot, and his unguardable Turnround in the Post (utilizing his elite-level footwork and ballhandling "skills").

Offensively speaking Jordan's skills were second to none, and quite frankly the more you comment on Jordan/90's the more it becomes apparent that you're not a student of his game, or that era... or you're trolling.

Jordan would completely destroy today's NBA. This isn't even a debate.

 

[MAGA2024]

What I'm interested in are the stats from the 1947 Finals. Can you post that?

You can find those numbers easily in the link... but here you go:

1947 BAA Finals - Stags vs. Warriors | Basketball-Reference.com

Summary and statistics for the 1947 BAA Finals - Stags vs. Warriors

www.basketball-reference.com

 

[Stakesarehigh]

He posts in a different style from GoP but it could be I guess

GoP never posted about sports that I recall, this guy is mostly sports focused

If you are a sad sad person makes sense to change your cadence.