How mad are you right now?

[St.Bonas2012]

If what you're saying is true, then my stance that it was a chicken shit call stands. If it wouldn't have made a difference, then there's no reason to flag it, ala no PI on an uncatchable ball. On another site, they slowed the replay down after the flag is thrown, they swear the other official was mouthing, "you're gonna call that here?" Probably wishful thinking, but this is hardly the slam dunk you all are making this out to be. Even if a technically correct call, the "pick" likely made no difference because they were so far out of position, it took points off the board and effectively decided the game.

That's no different than a o-line holding call on a deep pass play that tales points off the board. It was the correct call. You can't have contact with the DB like that when the ball is in the air and is caught beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

[St.Bonas2012]

FWIW, 247sports fan poll favors us:

View attachment 12794

I hate this, you shouldn't make the correct call, because of were we are in the game. That's fucking stupid.

 

[Lillyliverd]

St.Bonas,
I don't want to go all English teacher on you, but please try to do better.

 

[jjc2009]

That's no different than a o-line holding call on a deep pass play that tales points off the board. It was the correct call. You can't have contact with the DB like that when the ball is in the air and is caught beyond the line of scrimmage.

Actually, the two situations are not the same. If you commit holding on the offensive line, then presumably, you prevented a player from getting to the QB to make a sack and stop the play, or at least hurry the throw, which could affect the outcome of the play, ie a good defensive stop. If its a legit hold, then the flag is deserved.

Contrast with Saturday night's call. Niether of the defenders that were "picked" or "blocked" ever made, much less, attempted to make, a play on Robinson. They were locked up on their receivers. Ramesy was latched on to Procise pretty good, and the other defender moved inside AWAY from Robinson to take away Fuller's inside, who was clearly running a slant. Both defenders initiated contact to draw the foul that they got, but neither one had coverage responsibilities on Robinson. Robinson was open by a mile not because the defenders were blocked, but because the defender assigned to cover him had his head up his ass, and was never touched on the play. Of all the vociferous claims that it was definitely a foul, nobody has ever claimed that either defender would have or could have made a play, much less that they attempted one. Virtually everyone I've argued this point with on SportsHoopla has agreed, had they done nothing, Robinson would have still scored. QED, the "penalties" had no bearing on the play. If that's the case, then that is the very definition of a weak call. More than a few commentators now have said, even the other referee asked "are you sure" with the call. Two days later, the ACC still can't figure out who the penalty was on. Fuller was called for it on the field. The clarification given was it was on Procise. On Sunday, they said it was Fuller again. Herbstreit's telestrator was entirely focused on Procise. The lazy response is, well they both did it. Well, in a game of this magnitude, a better explanation is owed than that.

I don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

 

[St.Bonas2012]

Actually, the two situations are not the same. If you commit holding on the offensive line, then presumably, you prevented a player from getting to the QB to make a sack and stop the play, or at least hurry the throw, which could affect the outcome of the play, ie a good defensive stop. If its a legit hold, then the flag is deserved.

Contrast with Saturday night's call. Niether of the defenders that were "picked" or "blocked" ever made, much less, attempted to make, a play on Robinson. They were locked up on their receivers. Ramesy was latched on to Procise pretty good, and the other defender moved inside AWAY from Robinson to take away Fuller's inside, who was clearly running a slant. Both defenders initiated contact to draw the foul that they got, but neither one had coverage responsibilities on Robinson. Robinson was open by a mile not because the defenders were blocked, but because the defender assigned to cover him had his head up his ass, and was never touched on the play. Of all the vociferous claims that it was definitely a foul, nobody has ever claimed that either defender would have or could have made a play, much less that they attempted one. Virtually everyone I've argued this point with on SportsHoopla has agreed, had they done nothing, Robinson would have still scored. QED, the "penalties" had no bearing on the play. If that's the case, then that is the very definition of a weak call. More than a few commentators now have said, even the other referee asked "are you sure" with the call. Two days later, the ACC still can't figure out who the penalty was on. Fuller was called for it on the field. The clarification given was it was on Procise. On Sunday, they said it was Fuller again. Herbstreit's telestrator was entirely focused on Procise. The lazy response is, well they both did it. Well, in a game of this magnitude, a better explanation is owed than that.

I don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

A penalty is a penalty, no matter if it has bearing the on play or not. FSU called the wrong defense, that much is obvious and stupidity on the part of ND's receivers cost them a touchdown.
It doesn't matter who initiated the contact, the fact that the receivers didn't try to break away, which is obvious, is the reason they were called. End of story.

 

[jjc2009]

A penalty is a penalty, no matter if it has bearing the on play or not. FSU called the wrong defense, that much is obvious and stupidity on the part of ND's receivers cost them a touchdown.
It doesn't matter who initiated the contact, the fact that the receivers didn't try to break away, which is obvious, is the reason they were called. End of story.

Well, its a penalty because the official says it is. When the other referee is asking "are your sure," then reasonable minds can differ whether it was the right call in that spot. Nor does it change the fact that your analogy was stupid and not well thought out.

 

[St.Bonas2012]

Well, its a penalty because the official says it is. When the other referee is asking "are your sure," then reasonable minds can differ whether it was the right call in that spot. Nor does it change the fact that your analogy was stupid and not well thought out.

So, because another ref says, "are you sure," automatically makes it the wrong call?
It was the right call, only a couple ND homers, not including Lou Holtz (the biggest of them all), says it was the wrong call.

 

[jjc2009]

So, because another ref says, "are you sure," automatically makes it the wrong call?
It was the right call, only a couple ND homers, not including Lou Holtz (the biggest of them all), says it was the wrong call.

Is English your first language? I said reasonable minds can differ. BTW, on the main board you made the exact same argument that I made here, that if the penalty didn't affect the outcome of the play it shouldn't be called, in response to someone suggesting defensive holding on Procise. So, either you're trolling hard because you hate ND, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, or, when you get right down to it, you actually agree with me.

 

[St.Bonas2012]

Is English your first language? I said reasonable minds can differ. BTW, on the main board you made the exact same argument that I made here, that if the penalty didn't affect the outcome of the play it shouldn't be called, in response to someone suggesting defensive holding on Procise. So, either you're trolling hard because you hate ND, you don't know what the hell you're talking about, or, when you get right down to it, you actually agree with me.

No, you read the main board part wrong. I was saying as an analogy, that I messed up throughly in this thread, that defensive holding shouldn't be called when the ball isn't thrown at the receiver that was held.
Honestly, im mostly just trolling. I believe it was the right call. They missed the player taking his helmet off, so it should have been offsetting penalties, replay the down. It was blatant Offensive PI, The only reason why you don't agree with it, is because of where it was called in the game.
Too bad, so sad, it won't matter because you are not getting past the Trojans!!

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Guys I'm a true blooded Trojans fan. Please pay no mind to St Fontese. I can understand your dissatisfaction it was a right call that could have gone either way. I do think it was a pick play and a penalty. But I also think it had no bearing on the play. However it is a judgement call and you can't pin an entire game on a penalty. You put yourself in that position when a penalty costs you a game keep it out of the officials hands. I will not lie I do have bias I've hated ND for many years but I prefer to conduct myself with class. Here's to a good game when we meet

 

[jjc2009]

No, you read the main board part wrong. I was saying as an analogy, that I messed up throughly in this thread, that defensive holding shouldn't be called when the ball isn't thrown at the receiver that was held.
Honestly, im mostly just trolling. I believe it was the right call. They missed the player taking his helmet off, so it should have been offsetting penalties, replay the down. It was blatant Offensive PI, The only reason why you don't agree with it, is because of where it was called in the game.
Too bad, so sad, it won't matter because you are not getting past the Trojans!!

Well, to the non-call on the helmet penalty, it wouldn't offset. It's dead ball. They would have docked us 15 for PI, given the 15 back on the unsportsmanlike, but with a fresh set of downs.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Well, to the non-call on the helmet penalty, it wouldn't offset. It's dead ball. They would have docked us 15 for PI, given the 15 back on the unsportsmanlike, but with a fresh set of downs.

That I can agree with and I'm definitely not looking past notre dame this year

 

[St.Bonas2012]

Well, to the non-call on the helmet penalty, it wouldn't offset. It's dead ball. They would have docked us 15 for PI, given the 15 back on the unsportsmanlike, but with a fresh set of downs.

You are right. But, wouldn't it have been half the distance, rather than getting your whole 15 back, because it happened inside the Red Zone?

 

[poewelch84]

You are right. But, wouldn't it have been half the distance, rather than getting your whole 15 back, because it happened inside the Red Zone?

But it would have been a fresh set of downs so instead of 4th and goal it's 1st and goal with 15 seconds left makes a little difference.

 

[jjc2009]

That I can agree with and I'm definitely not looking past notre dame this year

Well, I would never look past USC, no matter how up we are and how down they were. That's why its a rivalry game. Even in 2012, when I thought we had the stronger team, were clearly having the better season, and especially when Barkley went down, I didn't discount them. They obviously still had, and have, talent all over the field, and all week long, they were very open about the fact that their one and only goal was to play spoiler to us. I thought Kelly was too conservative, especially in the red zone, and did just enough to win it, but the last few minutes of that game were stressful. Thank God for Lane Kiffin's stupidity is all I had to say on that one.

I have a similar feeling this year. USC has elite talent at every level on defense. Leonard Williams, Sua Cravens, guys who can be disruptive against anybody. On offense, obviously, they have elite talent at skill positions. SC still lacks depth though and is still trying to rebuild that from the sanctions, so that is why they get beat badly in the fourth quarter of games, and it will be interesting to see how healthy they will be at the end of the season, especially after playing UCLA the week before us. There's talented atheletes everywhere on the roster, but it just doesn't have the feel of playing like a team. I think we have a bit more of a complete team, despite losing several key players, and several of our young guys are playing well above expectations at this point. Plus I think that loss, and the way it happened, should unite them and give them a chip on their shoulders. If they go into that game with still just the one loss, I expect them to be extremely motivated as well. But they have to get by a tough road game agaisnt AZ St., a difficult defense in Louisville and Northwestern is actually starting to look like a football team after a terrible start and could be closer than many expected. They have their work cut out between now and Nov. 27. Its a game I look forward to every year, well, except 2003-2009.

 

[socaljim242]

Well, I would never look past USC, no matter how up we are and how down they were. That's why its a rivalry game. Even in 2012, when I thought we had the stronger team, were clearly having the better season, and especially when Barkley went down, I didn't discount them. They obviously still had, and have, talent all over the field, and all week long, they were very open about the fact that their one and only goal was to play spoiler to us. I thought Kelly was too conservative, especially in the red zone, and did just enough to win it, but the last few minutes of that game were stressful. Thank God for Lane Kiffin's stupidity is all I had to say on that one.

I have a similar feeling this year. USC has elite talent at every level on defense. Leonard Williams, Sua Cravens, guys who can be disruptive against anybody. On offense, obviously, they have elite talent at skill positions. SC still lacks depth though and is still trying to rebuild that from the sanctions, so that is why they get beat badly in the fourth quarter of games, and it will be interesting to see how healthy they will be at the end of the season, especially after playing UCLA the week before us. There's talented atheletes everywhere on the roster, but it just doesn't have the feel of playing like a team. I think we have a bit more of a complete team, despite losing several key players, and several of our young guys are playing well above expectations at this point. Plus I think that loss, and the way it happened, should unite them and give them a chip on their shoulders. If they go into that game with still just the one loss, I expect them to be extremely motivated as well. But they have to get by a tough road game agaisnt AZ St., a difficult defense in Louisville and Northwestern is actually starting to look like a football team after a terrible start and could be closer than many expected. They have their work cut out between now and Nov. 27. Its a game I look forward to every year, well, except 2003-2009.

I've got my tickets for the game but there's too much football to be played before we get to that game. This year every week something seems to happen to make you scratch your head and you have to re think how good some teams are. USC still has Utah, UCLA and Notre dame. That's a tough stretch The game could mean alot for both or it could mean a lot less if they lose a game on the way. Right now I give the edge to the Irish but USC still has the playmakers to score and if your DBs play like they did in the second half the USC receivers will score.
As for the call in this last game. Kelly has to defend his players and coaches in public but it looks like they didn;t teach the play right or the execution wasn't there. It sucks because you would have scored if they did at least look like they were running a route but two ND receivers just blocking left it in the refs hands and made it possible for it to be called. I know of a few times USC has been called for O linemen blocking downfield on pass routes. I'm guessing Robinson was supposed to run along the line to catch the pass but since Florida State messed up the coverage he wandered forward and the other two receivers blocked like they were supposed to. But you can only block( downfield) if the pass is caught behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[Raid]

Geeze, still whining over the right call and it's Tuesday? Woohoo !!!


You guys Flyers fans also? HAHAHAHAHA....

 

[craigk217]

Geeze, still whining over the right call and it's Tuesday? Woohoo !!!


You guys Flyers fans also? HAHAHAHAHA....

Not the place or good idea to be trolling on a team's board.

 

[poewelch84]

Geeze, still whining over the right call and it's Tuesday? Woohoo !!!


You guys Flyers fans also? HAHAHAHAHA....

Well a Raiders fan should just remain silent. Also I'm sure you recall being up 3-0 to the Flyers a few years back and how that went for your Bruins. I'm not a Flyers fan but sometimes fans need to be reminded of things.

 

[St.Bonas2012]

I've got my tickets for the game but there's too much football to be played before we get to that game. This year every week something seems to happen to make you scratch your head and you have to re think how good some teams are. USC still has Utah, UCLA and Notre dame. That's a tough stretch The game could mean alot for both or it could mean a lot less if they lose a game on the way. Right now I give the edge to the Irish but USC still has the playmakers to score and if your DBs play like they did in the second half the USC receivers will score.
As for the call in this last game. Kelly has to defend his players and coaches in public but it looks like they didn;t teach the play right or the execution wasn't there. It sucks because you would have scored if they did at least look like they were running a route but two ND receivers just blocking left it in the refs hands and made it possible for it to be called. I know of a few times USC has been called for O linemen blocking downfield on pass routes. I'm guessing Robinson was supposed to run along the line to catch the pass but since Florida State messed up the coverage he wandered forward and the other two receivers blocked like they were supposed to. But you can only block( downfield) if the pass is caught behind the line of scrimmage.

I know I'm looking forward to it. With no friends here in Iowa, football is what gets me through my down time from work.