Series Thread: Homestand 5/27 - 6/5

[cezero]

it's hard to like this team

i think deep down we all know that our collective take during the offseason and pre season was correct:

pitching was never going to match what they did last year and our lineup isn't much better than it was last year if at all.

we're a couple of weeks away from hitting a BRUTAL point in the schedule that doesn't let up until the beginning of august. our pen is bad right now, but just imagine them with zero rest days over 17 games TWICE.

hoping they have a spectacular next 2 weeks to set up for all that, but i am dubious.

 

[cezero]

His issues have been purely mechanical though. You can't miss pitch after pitch more than a foot left or right of the zone and have that not be mechanical IMO.

Pitchers show up early every spring to get that stuff dialed in. It takes weeks for some to get right.

Kirby needed more time before facing ML batters.

missing pitches isn't automatically a mechanical issue. If it were for Kirby they would pull him from the lineup for a start and work on it. I doubt they'd have him go down too AAA. the spring training comment is beyond reductive and not worth discussing.

if you don't understand the reasons that orgs don't have mlb pitchers do extensive rehab starts at AAA then that's fine, but there they are anyway.

i almost wish kriby would've gotten shelled again last night so he could go down and dominate AAA and then come back and we could see how it works out for him. not being snarky at all. i'm really curious about this kid's mental make up since he's going to be with us for awhile.

 

[wazzu31]

He's still in the equivalent of early spring training.

They brought him up way too soon and I can't see him getting fully right while up here.

I don't have a high expectation for him tonight.

At best he starts missing inside the zone more than way off the plate, but that could be worse.

I’m not sure why they don’t do extended rehab assignments but the M’s don’t like doing it. Plus it seems hard to have pitchers doing rehabs in Tacoma. Hancock and Evans were in AAA because they were on the defacto taxi squad.

It does seem they rushed him, but I don’t think it’s the rehab assignments. It seems they either didn’t give him enough time to do the actual rehab or there may be actually something they need to do surgery on.

Divish said same thing happened with Felix in 2014 or 15 (can’t remember which one) where he had an issue with his elbow that he rehabbed instead of having surgery and we all saw what happened to him.

But it’s the prime example of if your staff is having a year like last year you must go for it.

 

[WizardHawk]

I mean that's the point right? They didn't bring back Kirby when they did because he was fully healed and up to speed. They brought him back fast because they have issues with Gilbert and Miller and are trying to plug holes. You can't tell me they wouldn't have been better off in his first two starts with Evans on the mound instead.

There are plenty of voices around the team also saying they brought him back too soon. Bill Kruger went into detail about it the other day. Others have as well. So the idea I'm simply speaking from ignorance must mean others covering the team and former MLB pitchers are also just clueless about rehab.

Yes, MLB teams mostly do this. That doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. I'm not alone in that opinion.

 

[wazzu31]

I mean that's the point right? They didn't bring back Kirby when they did because he was fully healed and up to speed. They brought him back fast because they have issues with Gilbert and Miller and are trying to plug holes. You can't tell me they wouldn't have been better off in his first two starts with Evans on the mound instead.

There are plenty of voices around the team also saying they brought him back too soon. Bill Kruger went into detail about it the other day. Others have as well. So the idea I'm simply speaking from ignorance must mean others covering the team and former MLB pitchers are also just clueless about rehab.

Yes, MLB teams mostly do this. That doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do. I'm not alone in that opinion.

Without question if Gilbert and Miller were fine things would be different with Kirby.

 

[PolarVortex]

His issues have been purely mechanical though. You can't miss pitch after pitch more than a foot left or right of the zone and have that not be mechanical IMO.

What I saw last night was, with one out and two runners on in the second inning, something clicked for Kirby. Something we hadn't seen yet since he was called up. He struck out the next two batters to get out of the inning and then sailed through the third and the fourth and the first two outs of the fifth. It was so hard for him took get that last out in the fifth because it took him 50 pitches to get the first four outs of the game. He was taxed.

But, it was the under-performing Orioles, so who knows what to expect in his next start. If he comes into the next game with the same stuff and mental toughness he showed in outs 5-14 yesterday, then maybe he really is back to form or something closely resembling it.

And, his busted lip gives them an excuse to let him skip a turn in the rotation if they so choose.

Pitchers show up early every spring to get that stuff dialed in. It takes weeks for some to get right.

Kirby needed more time before facing ML batters.

Showed some improvement last night, but still isn't quite where you expect him to be.

I'll still blame 2 M's losses on them rushing him up too quickly.

Last nights loss was more about their pathetic batting and putrid bullpen.

Our bullpen sucks. We only have three reliable arms, including one that has only been in 7 games in the last year and a third

 

[PolarVortex]

Without question if Gilbert and Miller were fine things would be different with Kirby.

Yep. Definitely. And the didn't plan the currently rotation very well when they were building it. The top 7 guys on the depth chart are right handers. Makes it pretty easy for opponents to plan their day to day lineups against us and the more left-handed hitters they have, the more vulnerable we are going to be. And with only one lefthander in our bullpen, they don't need to go to their bench much.

 

[WizardHawk]

What I saw last night was, with one out and two runners on in the second inning, something clicked for Kirby. Something we hadn't seen yet since he was called up. He struck out the next two batters to get out of the inning and then sailed through the third and the fourth and the first two outs of the fifth. It was so hard for him took get that last out in the fifth because it took him 50 pitches to get the first four outs of the game. He was taxed.

But, it was the under-performing Orioles, so who knows what to expect in his next start. If he comes into the next game with the same stuff and mental toughness he showed in outs 5-14 yesterday, then maybe he really is back to form or something closely resembling it.

And, his busted lip gives them an excuse to let him skip a turn in the rotation if they so choose.

Our bullpen sucks. We only have three reliable arms, including one that has only been in 7 games in the last year and a third

I didn't get to watch much of the game. What little I did see was better by him than the first 2. I'd expect him to keep improving just like pitchers typically do in spring training. Maybe in the next couple of outings he gets closer to what he was last year.

 

[wazzu31]

Yep. Definitely. And the didn't plan the currently rotation very well when they were building it. The top 7 guys on the depth chart are right handers. Makes it pretty easy for opponents to plan their day to day lineups against us and the more left-handed hitters they have, the more vulnerable we are going to be. And with only one lefthander in our bullpen, they don't need to go to their bench much.

Yeah the righty thing is weird. It’s like they had Marco and Ray not live up to their contracts then decided Nah, lefties are weird. I think @NWinAZ debunked it but there was piece preseason about how terrible T Mobile is to hit in but in that piece it said with how the batters eye is set up it’s harder to pick a ball from a RHP than a LHP.

 

[PolarVortex]

Yeah the righty thing is weird. It’s like they had Marco and Ray not live up to their contracts then decided Nah, lefties are weird. I think @NWinAZ debunked it but there was piece preseason about how terrible T Mobile is to hit in but in that piece it said with how the batters eye is set up it’s harder to pick a ball from a RHP than a LHP.

Yep. Cezero has mentioned the batter's eye problem too. But has it really taken the Ms brass 25 years to figure out that it favors RHPs more than LHPs? Would that still be the case if RJ and Moyer were in our rotation?

 

[PolarVortex]

Yep. Cezero has mentioned the batter's eye problem too. But has it really taken the Ms brass 25 years to figure out that it favors RHPs more than LHPs? Would that still be the case if RJ and Moyer were in our rotation?

As for Marco and Ray, Marco was just destined to be a mediocre pitcher. He was never going to be a #1, #2, or even a #3 in a league-average rotation in an offensively league-neutral ballpark. And Dipoto was just butthurt with Ray, with Ray giving up the bomb to Alvarez in the playoffs and following that up with the blown elbow and missing a full year. But this year Ray is showing that he is still one of the top lefties in the game. I wish we had kept him.

 

[wazzu31]

Yep. Cezero has mentioned the batter's eye problem too. But has it really taken the Ms brass 25 years to figure out that it favors RHPs more than LHPs? Would that still be the case if RJ and Moyer were in our rotation?

Not sure cause it didn’t seem like they were in on Crochet, even though trading prospects for him then trading Castillo for a bat seems like it would’ve been a good offseason.

 

[wazzu31]

And one questions for all of you guys with all this Harry Ford talk. Instead of DFA’ing Garver, why not DFA Solano and give Garver a 1B mitt?

 

[AceKeptic]

I've watched almost every O's game this season. They're really bad not just running cold. It's been frustrating for fans.

Every win is earned, but the next couple of weeks' worth of games are primarily against objectively bad opponents. After that, it's 2 series of 17 in a row with pretty much only the AS break between them to take us to the beginning of August.

Gotta take advantage of this next couple weeks.

Team running cold? We can help with that, no problem! Certainly did last night.

We need to DFA Snider...Now!
This is what I was talking about. You take a struggler for granted, you play down to their level, it's gonna bite you sooner or later, and THAT is what costs you a season later down the road.

And now that we're half a game out of the division lead AGAIN, it's all in the matter of how much further we'll sink before any action is taken, whether it's what we need or not.

Good luck seeing results from higher-ups who don't even care.

 

[AceKeptic]

Meanwhile, tonight.

Povich vs Hancock

BATTLE OF MID. Watch us lose this one, too.

 

[WizardHawk]

This bullpen sucks bull penis

 

[WizardHawk]

Really? this shit stain team can't fucking beat the hapless Orioles at home....

This is feeling more and more like the M's of the 2010's. Can't keep a lead and can't mount a comeback.

 

[cezero]

left with the m's up 2-1 and came back in the bottom of the 7th to see them down 2-3.

and the first thing i see is garver hit a pathetic little ground ball to the shortstop.

it made me realize that this is what the m's really, truly are. there are zero teams that contend for titles that would have that piece of shit on their 26-man. and now we're at a point where we HAVE to have him because he's the only backup catcher and even if ford gets called up they'd probably STILL need him. seeing polanco's ab right after that just made it all the more real.

not sure m's fans can understand just how bad the o's pen has been the past couple months. this is by far the best they've looked all season thanks to the pathetic lineup we have.

 

[AceKeptic]

And there you have it, another game surrendered to BALTIMORE, of all teams.

We've quit. Clear and simple.

And we gotta wrap up the series against them tomorrow? Well then......



seriously, you can't beat a struggler like the Orioles, what good are you?

 

[wazzu31]

Well a positive about losing is that Castillo’s value will be super high at the deadline, could probably get something quality for Randy too