Hobs is at it again

[cincygrad]

http://www.bengals.com/news/article...s-or-CTE/31e2840d-25ff-45cf-9cc6-f2ffa485ab0e

Interesting that Hobs has been instructed to use the team's website to promote an anti-litigation stance in the debate about head injuries. Mike Brown has also used the public forum to make the argument that football does not pose serious risk. Obviously there is a clear financial incentive for the owners to squash the link, but it's interesting to see the Bengals being so transparent and open about their view.

BTW -- I didn't read the source article, but it appears there is a serious flaw in the logic. Failing to find evidence for something does not mean that it doesn't exist. It could just as well indicate that it hasn't been well-studied.

 

[DanBengalfan]

my 7 year old had a helmet to helmet collision with another Milford child in a practice game. He's a fairly sensitive child, although he likes football (and interesting contradiction) ... in retrospect, I could have taken him out, he has enough trouble putting sentences together with a slight speech impediment that started when he was 3, I'm glad he's taken an interest in other sports.

 

[Cincyfan78]

What's going to end up happening is that they will (owners/NFL) start working into contract language that there is a possibility of such injuries, and that the risk is inherent to the job, and any further injuries will not subject the team, owners, NFL to any additional liability.

Look, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you are banging heads (helmets or no) with 300lb dudes, your brain is going to end up scrambled at some point. It's part of the job. If you don't want that, then don't play.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

What's going to end up happening is that they will (owners/NFL) start working into contract language that there is a possibility of such injuries, and that the risk is inherent to the job, and any further injuries will not subject the team, owners, NFL to any additional liability.

Look, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you are banging heads (helmets or no) with 300lb dudes, your brain is going to end up scrambled at some point. It's part of the job. If you don't want that, then don't play.

You think football would fall into the same category as boxing wouldn't you?

Maybe race car drivers realize that their sport is doing everything they can to protect them incase of injury, but there is always a chance of serious injury or possibly death isn't there? I mean, isn't that an understood hazard of these occupations?

Everyone gets all dumb all of a sudden! Oh geez, you mean my melon can get more squashed than it already is if I go out and smash heads with 250 pound dudes that run 4.4 40's? Gee...how odd.

Sure protect the players as much as possible, at least to the stopping point before it ruins the sport, then at that line you now have to say hey, there is a possibility you could still get hurt playing this game, short term and long term damage. Are you sure you want to risk injury for only $100 million dollars? You do? Okay, don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[flamingrey]

What's going to end up happening is that they will (owners/NFL) start working into contract language that there is a possibility of such injuries, and that the risk is inherent to the job, and any further injuries will not subject the team, owners, NFL to any additional liability.

Look, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you are banging heads (helmets or no) with 300lb dudes, your brain is going to end up scrambled at some point. It's part of the job. If you don't want that, then don't play.

The owners have never been liable for further injuries down the road, so there's no need to enter in that language into contracts. What they have been sued for is deliberately hiding and lying about with they DID know regarding concussions. That was part of the reason many people were upset about the lawsuit settlement a few weeks ago. Because of the settlement agreement, the NFL now never ever has to release the studies that were conducted and the documents that were compiled.

 

[flamingrey]

Okay, don't say I didn't warn you.

And therein lies the problem....they NEVER did. They hid and lied about what they DID know.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And therein lies the problem....they NEVER did. They hid and lied about what they DID know.

What exactly do they know, if the "study" on these concussions has proved nothing?

 

[Cincyfan78]

So, what we are all saying here is that players didn't know that hitting your head millions of times was bad for your future health?

I'm not saying stuff wasn't hidden. I get it. They hid information and they lied. They are culpable, but to say that players didn't know the risks involved of banging your head over and over and over again...ridiculous.

Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that down the road, you are going to have physical and mental issues by playing any violent sport. It shouldn't take studies, hidden or not, to show that.

 

[DanBengalfan]

the gladiators simply fixed the problem by fighting to the death.

 

[cincygrad]

What exactly do they know, if the "study" on these concussions has proved nothing?

That's a single study that was released and promoted by the NFL -- As Rey points out, there could be plenty of other info that was known and never released.

 

[cincygrad]

So, what we are all saying here is that players didn't know that hitting your head millions of times was bad for your future health?

I'm not saying stuff wasn't hidden. I get it. They hid information and they lied. They are culpable, but to say that players didn't know the risks involved of banging your head over and over and over again...ridiculous.

Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that down the road, you are going to have physical and mental issues by playing any violent sport. It shouldn't take studies, hidden or not, to show that.

That's a slippery slope.... Driving a box of steel at 65 MPH is also objectively dangerous and consumers should know their risks. Yet, you'll find billions of dollars in litigation whenever an auto manufacturer has a small deficit in their product that increases risk in an accident. You also take a risk any time you let someone open you up to perform a surgery -- That doesn't stop the trillions of dollars at play in medical malpractice.

 

[Cincyfan78]

That's a slippery slope.... Driving a box of steel at 65 MPH is also objectively dangerous and consumers should know their risks. Yet, you'll find billions of dollars in litigation whenever an auto manufacturer has a small deficit in their product that increases risk in an accident. You also take a risk any time you let someone open you up to perform a surgery -- That doesn't stop the trillions of dollars at play in medical malpractice.

Agreed, but in those cases, when something doesn't work the way it is supposed to work, that is when you find issues.

Helmets have never promoted to STOP brain injuries, only lessen the impact.

Again, hitting your head willfully, protected or not, will eventually lead to brain injuries and other issues. Some people's brains aren't as affected as others for various reasons, but the bottom line still remains that it is ridiculous to think that players didn't know the risks involved.

That being said, the NFL could be doing more, and should have been doing more, to protect their product. If there were things out there that should have been implemented, but were hidden, this is where I agree with the players.

But, to say, like MB said, that there is no evidence of football related brain injuries is flat out dumb and ignorant. Of course there is a correleation!

 

[flamingrey]

What exactly do they know, if the "study" on these concussions has proved nothing?

Who said it proved nothing? To this day the NFL is hush about the study.

 

[flamingrey]

So, what we are all saying here is that players didn't know that hitting your head millions of times was bad for your future health?

I'm not saying stuff wasn't hidden. I get it. They hid information and they lied. They are culpable, but to say that players didn't know the risks involved of banging your head over and over and over again...ridiculous.

Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that down the road, you are going to have physical and mental issues by playing any violent sport. It shouldn't take studies, hidden or not, to show that.

No, that is not what anyone is saying. I understand the use of hyperbole to try to make a point, but try not to sound silly when doing so.

Everyone knew and still does know there are risks. How much risk? It was never clear. The issue came in with the NFL DOWNPLAYING - based on the study they had conducted - the effects of repeated concussions (or something of the sort) over time.

 

[Cincyfan78]

No, that is not what anyone is saying. I understand the use of hyperbole to try to make a point, but try not to sound silly when doing so.

Everyone knew and still does know there are risks. How much risk? It was never clear. The issue came in with the NFL DOWNPLAYING - based on the study they had conducted - the effects of repeated concussions (or something of the sort) over time.

I'll try not to sound silly, but then you have to try not to be such an ass...so I guess we'll call it a draw.

All anyone ever needed to do was look at boxers who went on to have serious dementia and other fine motor skill problems related to being hit in the head multiple times. Now, take that, and add more weight and speed to that from flying around the football field, and you can make a very legit case that players should have known on their own what they were getting into, including the potential severity of it.

I don't disagree that stuff was downplayed. Where I disagree with the owners is where other mandates should have been in place sooner, and more research done on better equipment long, long ago. However, I disagree with players saying they didn't know the severity of what would occur. That's just ignorant.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If I was the NFL I would just come out and say...playing this sport could cause you to go bat shit crazy and be a loon or vegetable later in life, potentially even kill your ass.

Now that you are aware of the side affects of playing football (kinda like taking any drug out there advertised on tv), who wants to be the first in line to get paid millions of dollars for doing so?

How many players you going to see say..."well, now that I know the potential risks, fuck that noise, please void my future pay checks that tabulate to $50 million dollars, I am retiring as of this moment."

I just do not see why the NFL doesn't just say this out right, half these idiots that have no future in anything else but gang banging like Adam Pacman Jones and will never turn the paycheck away.

You do not find too many Robert Smiths in the NFL anymore (former RB for the Vikings and former OSU RB).

As a man, who had little otehr means to take care of his family better than this, I take the chances, risk my own life so that my wife and kids are secure for the rest of their lives, if I had the talent to be able to play professional football. It is a sacrifice you make as a man for your family, and you hope for the best.

That is my point of view.