Heatley just wanted a change

[BostonAJ]

I don't think they should have to give up their NTC if they demand a trade.

Sharks fan, eh? Think about the other side of the story. Asking for an NTC and then demanding a trade and then invoking your NTC is pretty fucked up.

 

[Urkie]

I don't think they should have to give up their NTC if they demand a trade. It is part of their negotiated contract. I think the problem is that some GM's like to give out NTC's & NMC's like they are candy. The entire reason they exist is to give the player final say on if and where he gets traded. If teams give them to guys they have to know the risk.

I didn't follow the Heatley situation until he came to San Jose and I do not know how things developed between him and the Senators so I will not pass a moral judgment on that exact situation.

Heatley wanted a NTC in the contract and both sides wanted him to remain a Senator long term.

Then just one year later he demands to be traded. Now how is there nothing wrong with that? He made a commitment to the Senators and then fucked them over.

 

[filosofy29]

Sharks fan, eh? Think about the other side of the story. Asking for an NTC and then demanding a trade and then invoking your NTC is pretty fucked up.

It was bullshit on Heatley's part, but not illegal. Kind of like Pronger's "non-facing" Avery Rule penalty. Bullshit, but should not have been called until the rules on these types of things are spelled out more clearly.

There should be limited NTC's in which the player has to agree to 50% (not 33%) of the teams in the NHL. I don't remember people getting all up in arms over how Tampa Bay treated Danny Boyle.....both the Owners and the Players are greedy when it fits what they want to accomplish. If you didn't get this mad over how Tampa Bay's ownership treated Boyle, then you shouldn't be mad at what Heatley did. In both cases, Heatley and TB Management acted shady, but what they did was technically legal. Were you outraged by Tampa Bay's handling of Boyle?

As a Sharks fan, I wish Heatley did go to Edmonton, the Sharks would be a much better overall team right now if he had.

 

[Slimpikins]

Sharks fan, eh? Think about the other side of the story. Asking for an NTC and then demanding a trade and then invoking your NTC is pretty fucked up.

Yep, I'm a Sharks fan so I guess that invalidates my entire post. Even the part you skipped that said I didn't follow the Heatley situation until he was traded to San Jose so I wasn't qualified to make a moral judgment on that specific situation?

Thanks for completely dismissing my point just because of my team affiliation.

 

[Slimpikins]

Heatley wanted a NTC in the contract and both sides wanted him to remain a Senator long term.

Then just one year later he demands to be traded. Now how is there nothing wrong with that? He made a commitment to the Senators and then fucked them over.

I guess my point is that a team is also responsible for giving players those clauses as well. That does not absolve the players of all reaction and responsibly in that situation but the management also needs to share the blame.

Look at the Leafs a few years ago. Hell look at some of the names that the Sharks gave those clauses to *cough* Wallin *cough*. It can really handcuff a team in terms of trade options. It can also backfire if that player turns out to be a malcontent.

That doesn't excuse the players actions but the team still understands the risk involved. If the Senators don't give him a NTC this whole situation never happens. Doesn't mean Heatley's a saint but it also doesn't mean that the Senators are an innocent victim.

 

[Urkie]

I guess my point is that a team is also responsible for giving players those clauses as well. That does not absolve the players of all reaction and responsibly in that situation but the management also needs to share the blame.

Look at the Leafs a few years ago. Hell look at some of the names that the Sharks gave those clauses to *cough* Wallin *cough*. It can really handcuff a team in terms of trade options. It can also backfire if that player turns out to be a malcontent.

That doesn't excuse the players actions but the team still understands the risk involved. If the Senators don't give him a NTC this whole situation never happens. Doesn't mean Heatley's a saint but it also doesn't mean that the Senators are an innocent victim.

But I highly doubt that Heatley would have agreed to the contract if the Sens didn't give him the NTC. And keep in mind that he was resigned in October 2007, just 4 months after they lost to the Ducks in the SCF's.

The Senators organization made a commitment to him and he decided to screw them over by making his demands public. This situation wouldn't have become nearly as fucked if that never happened.

 

[Slimpikins]

But I highly doubt that Heatley would have agreed to the contract if the Sens didn't give him the NTC. And keep in mind that he was resigned in October 2007, just 4 months after they lost to the Ducks in the SCF's.

The Senators organization made a commitment to him and he decided to screw them over by making his demands public. This situation wouldn't have become nearly as fucked if that never happened.

Then they don't have to sign him. I get that and he deserves his ridicule for his actions. But the Senators still bear some responsibility. If a player says he won't sign unless he gets that clause then the team has to evaluate if he is the type of person that they want to take that risk with. If they do and it backfires on them they do share the blame.

If he blows up the San Jose locker room I will be pissed but I will not think that Doug Wilson and the SVSE ownership group are above reproach. Management is at least partially responsible for how a player works out, whether it is good or bad.

 

[Urkie]

Then they don't have to sign him. I get that and he deserves his ridicule for his actions. But the Senators still bear some responsibility. If a player says he won't sign unless he gets that clause then the team has to evaluate if he is the type of person that they want to take that risk with. If they do and it backfires on them they do share the blame.

If he blows up the San Jose locker room I will be pissed but I will not think that Doug Wilson and the SVSE ownership group are above reproach. Management is at least partially responsible for how a player works out, whether it is good or bad.

The Senators do bear some of the responsibility but Heatley does more so then the organization in this case. If you talked to the Sens players back when he signed the contract, it was a no brainer for both sides. Everybody seemed to like Dany and everything was fine. He was in line to be the next captain quite honestly.

Then instead of sticking it out and trying to recover after a bad year in 08/09, he bailed and looked for greener pastures. About as close to a quitter as you can get imo.

Your point about how the Sens org takes some of the blame is valid but Heatley takes more of the blame for being an asshole to the organization, city and fans.

 

[Slimpikins]

The Senators do bear some of the responsibility but Heatley does more so then the organization in this case. If you talked to the Sens players back when he signed the contract, it was a no brainer for both sides. Everybody seemed to like Dany and everything was fine. He was in line to be the next captain quite honestly.

Then instead of sticking it out and trying to recover after a bad year in 08/09, he bailed and looked for greener pastures. About as close to a quitter as you can get imo.

Your point about how the Sens org takes some of the blame is valid but Heatley takes more of the blame for being an asshole to the organization, city and fans.

I agree that Heatley does appear to be the catalyst in that situation and should bear the brunt of the criticism if it unfolded as you depicted. But like I mentioned I didn't follow it until he was officially a San Jose Shark. That's why I keep posting in vauge terms and not specifics, I have a hard time saying who in that exact situation is at fault. From what most people post it does look like Heater is the culprit.

I actually didn't want him I thought that it made the Sharks too top heavy of a team.

I bet Thornton talked him into coming "He Danny you should come to San Jose, here you can mail it in durring the playoffs just like in Ottawa but without the media pressure."

 

[filosofy29]

You guys should just read post #23 and be done with this thread.....

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

I agree that Heatley does appear to be the catalyst in that situation and should bear the brunt of the criticism if it unfolded as you depicted. But like I mentioned I didn't follow it until he was officially a San Jose Shark. That's why I keep posting in vauge terms and not specifics, I have a hard time saying who in that exact situation is at fault. From what most people post it does look like Heater is the culprit.

I actually didn't want him I thought that it made the Sharks too top heavy of a team.

I bet Thornton talked him into coming "He Danny you should come to San Jose, here you can mail it in durring the playoffs just like in Ottawa but without the media pressure."

Are you serious? The Sharks gave up very little to get Heatley. Any GM would have made that trade from the Sharks perspective.

 

[filosofy29]

Are you serious? The Sharks gave up very little to get Heatley. Any GM would have made that trade from the Sharks perspective.

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. Believe it or not, you can "win" a trade and still make your team worse (read: lack of depth).

 

[Slimpikins]

You guys should just read post #23 and be done with this thread.....

The only part I didn't like was the limited NTC. If the GM's want to try that more power to them but I don't think that the NHL needs to write it into the CBA.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. Believe it or not, you can "win" a trade and still make your team worse (read: lack of depth).

What do you call Clowe, Pavelski, Couture, Setoguchi, Mitchell & McGinn chopped liver?

The trade turned out to be basically Michalek for Heatley. If I were a Senators fan I'd be pissed off too.

On a side note have you heared anything about Wisniewski to the Sharks? There have been some rumblings. Freidmann & Eklund have mentioned it.

 

[Urkie]

You're not seeing the bigger picture here. Believe it or not, you can "win" a trade and still make your team worse (read: lack of depth).

Pretty much. You guys now have limited cap space to address other areas. Kind of like the Senators did and I believe that led to our downfall.

The one thing I will say is that Michalek isn't the same player anymore due to the numerous knee surgeries. He's lost some of that speed and he's nowhere near as effective without it.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Pretty much. You guys now have limited cap space to address other areas. Kind of like the Senators did and I believe that led to our downfall.

The one thing I will say is that Michalek isn't the same player anymore due to the numerous knee surgeries. He's lost some of that speed and he's nowhere near as effective without it.

I'm hoping that his burst of speed comes back, but it might take a while, if it ever happens.

Too bad, because I really like him as a player.

 

[Urkie]

I'm hoping that his burst of speed comes back, but it might take a while, if it ever happens.

Too bad, because I really like him as a player.

It is sad because when he's on he'll get a breakaway almost every game. I watched him when he was in San Jose and his speed was almost Bure like. I was excited to add that kind of element to the Sens because one of the areas that we really had missed the previous few years was speed.

I just don't know if that knee of his will ever truly recover. To have one knee operated on that many times takes its toll.

 

[filosofy29]

What do you call Clowe, Pavelski, Couture, Setoguchi, Mitchell & McGinn chopped liver?

The trade turned out to be basically Michalek for Heatley. If I were a Senators fan I'd be pissed off too.

On a side note have you heared anything about Wisniewski to the Sharks? There have been some rumblings. Freidmann & Eklund have mentioned it.

Isles, the Sharks are deep up front, they were deep up front even before Heatley. Heatley just added more depth to the Forwards. However, are defense is severely lacking.....it's TERRIBLE. When Wallin AND Huskins are considered top 4 defensemen, you are NOT a Cup Caliber team. Heatley's contract in part (not in whole as it turned out) probably led to Ehrhoff needlessly being traded to the Canucks for nothing except cap space. As it turned out, the trade for Heatley was pretty much a salary cap wash.

As for Wisniewski to the Sharks, I highly doubt it. The Sharks would need to trade a guy like Logan Couture to make that happen and that is too steep of price to pay for a guy that could be a rental. I like Wisniewski, but the Sharks cupboard is getting bare on good prospects and they need to keep their high draft picks too. Unless the Isles cave in for lower tier prospects and draft picks, I just don't see this getting done (unless DWil gets bent over).

Pretty much. You guys now have limited cap space to address other areas. Kind of like the Senators did and I believe that led to our downfall.

The one thing I will say is that Michalek isn't the same player anymore due to the numerous knee surgeries. He's lost some of that speed and he's nowhere near as effective without it.

You hit the nail on the head Urk. The Sharks defense is the worst it's been since 90's. The Heatley trade really limited what the Sharks could do as far as adding players that are worthwhile to the defense corps. Not only that, but Michalek was VERY good in his own end, something Heatley needs to get a map just to find.

I hope he does too. Michalek can be a great 2nd liner or an average to above average 1st line winger when he has his speed. He can put in 60 pts and also be a Selke finalist when he's right. I like the Sens, I hope they get back to being a good team soon.

 

[Urkie]

You hit the nail on the head Urk. The Sharks defense is the worst it's been since 90's. The Heatley trade really limited what the Sharks could do as far as adding players that are worthwhile to the defense corps. Not only that, but Michalek was VERY good in his own end, something Heatley needs to get a map just to find.

I hope he does too. Michalek can be a great 2nd liner or an average to above average 1st line winger when he has his speed. He can put in 60 pts and also be a Selke finalist when he's right. I like the Sens, I hope they get back to being a good team soon.

Yeah, the same thing happened to the Sens. Our depth was forced out and all that was left was pure garbage. It worked a little while, until the big 3 started to break down and slow down. Then everything fell apart.

I know how Heatley is defensively. I think part of his problem is that he's really just not that good of a skater to begin with but also because he really only cares about scoring goals. Alfie covered his ass and Spezza's ass for years when they played together.

Hopefully Michalek is just recovering slowly and he gets his speed back. The Sens need him to be really good if they're going to be a good team going forward.

As for getting back to being good. I think it's going to take a bit of time post Alfie. Right now we have tons of good D prospects but seriously lack forward prospects. We might be a basement team relatively soon and then work our way back up again.

 

[forty_three]

?

Thanks for completely dismissing my point just because of my team affiliation.

You'll get used to it. I did.

If I was only allowed to comment on the Heatley situation...