Hart Trophy

[quoipourquoi]

Crosby, Ovechkin, Sedin.


No Bryzgalov. No Miller. What the fuck?

 

[postmaster]

wow, I thought one of the goalies would be there for sure.
I actually would have picked Bryzgalov

 

[IPostedWhat]

Well you see, the goalies already have an award called the Vezina, and I don't think they are deserving to also get the Hart as well.

I don't care what anybody says........I pick THE MILLER for both!

The Sabres finish in 13th place without him, and if Lalime is the starter, they finish 16th.

 

[IPostedWhat]

wow, I thought one of the goalies would be there for sure.
I actually would have picked Bryzgalov

 

[smo5039]

ok goalie guys, which one of the three would you have taken out for miller or briz?

 

[beantownmaniac]

I'm surprised Miller wasn't nominated as I thought he deserved it. I'm hoping Sedin gets it now.

 

[loki604]

I think Sid deserves it this year.

Yeah, I said it.

 

[postmaster]

ok goalie guys, which one of the three would you have taken out for miller or briz?

Either Crosby or Ovechkin.
I thought it would come down to Bryz, Miller and H. Sedin.

 

[IPostedWhat]

I think Sid deserves it this year.

Yeah, I said it.

 

[IPostedWhat]

Well lets put it this way.

Which team could still survive for a stretch of time without them playing?

I think the Caps, Pens, and Nucks would still do alright without OV, Crosby, and Sedin not in the Lineup for a period of time.

The Yotes would struggle without Bryz, but Labarbara isn't horrible.

The Sabres would sink to the bottom of the East fast if they had to depend on Lalime to bail them out.

MVP = Player who is the most valuable to their team's success = Miller.

 

[postmaster]

I think Sid deserves it this year.

Yeah, I said it.

My rebuttal would be why should the Captain of the defending cup champions deserve the award over a goalie from a perennial bottom dweller with no elite goal scorers on the team when they both finished with a 4 seed?
Not to mention, Phoenix also set numerous franchise records (which shouldn't come into play but I thought it might).

 

[dash]

H. Sedin FTW

 

[MM213]

I think Sid deserves it this year.

Yeah, I said it.

Some people at the old place think he deserves it every year
IMHO, it should be Sedin, Miller, Bryz

edit: Postmaster beat me to it

 

[smo5039]

They should give it to Sedin to avoid all controversy

 

[li0lsh]

Sedin.. Can't believe this is even in question.

 

[Darkstone42]

There is an inherent problem with giving a goalie the Hart trophy. Goalies, by the nature of their position, are the most valuable players to their teams. They play by far the most minutes and have by far the most control over the outcome of the games. Because of that unfair advantage, I think goalies should have to do something absolutely incredible in order to win the Hart trophy.

Miller and Bryzgalov both did incredible things.

But do they deserve the nomination? Were they that much better than their peers? Statistically, Brodeur was better than Bryzgalov this year, according to my formulas. So why isn't Brodeur getting mentioned? Because he plays on a better team?

So I suppose what this award should come down to, in my opinion, is who added the most value (in terms of record) to his team, with an adjustment made for positional impact. That is to say, who added the most value to his team over an average player at his position?

Looking at the goaltending statistics this year, I would have to completely write Bryzgalov off the ballot. He did not perform far enough above the average goaltender in the league this year.

Miller is boarderline. He performed a bit ahead of Bryzgalov, and therefore added more value to his team than Bryzgalov.

Crosby, Ovechkin, and Sedin all added very close to the same value to their respective teams this season. I would say that Crosby added the most value, Sedin second, and Ovechkin third. Some of this is admittedly "homerism," but I'm weighting goals more heavily than assists and docking Ovechkin because he missed more games than the other two (and therefore could not add value to his team over the course of those games).

As a result, I would say any combination of the four players - Crosby, Sedin, Ovechkin, and Miller - would have been acceptable. But I think when it came down to it, voters were apprehensive about voting for Miller because there were so many good goaltending performances in the league this year. (See Rask, Halak, Brodeur, Bryzgalov, Kiprusoff, etc.)

So I'm fine with these nominations, and I, like Loki, and partially influenced by homerism, would vote for Crosby.

 

[puckhead]

They should give it to Sedin to avoid all controversy

this is the answer.

 

[smo5039]

There is an inherent problem with giving a goalie the Hart trophy. Goalies, by the nature of their position, are the most valuable players to their teams. They play by far the most minutes and have by far the most control over the outcome of the games. Because of that unfair advantage, I think goalies should have to do something absolutely incredible in order to win the Hart trophy.

Miller and Bryzgalov both did incredible things.

But do they deserve the nomination? Were they that much better than their peers? Statistically, Brodeur was better than Bryzgalov this year, according to my formulas. So why isn't Brodeur getting mentioned? Because he plays on a better team?

So I suppose what this award should come down to, in my opinion, is who added the most value (in terms of record) to his team, with an adjustment made for positional impact. That is to say, who added the most value to his team over an average player at his position?

Looking at the goaltending statistics this year, I would have to completely write Bryzgalov off the ballot. He did not perform far enough above the average goaltender in the league this year.

Miller is boarderline. He performed a bit ahead of Bryzgalov, and therefore added more value to his team than Bryzgalov.

Crosby, Ovechkin, and Sedin all added very close to the same value to their respective teams this season. I would say that Crosby added the most value, Sedin second, and Ovechkin third. Some of this is admittedly "homerism," but I'm weighting goals more heavily than assists and docking Ovechkin because he missed more games than the other two (and therefore could not add value to his team over the course of those games).

As a result, I would say any combination of the four players - Crosby, Sedin, Ovechkin, and Miller - would have been acceptable. But I think when it came down to it, voters were apprehensive about voting for Miller because there were so many good goaltending performances in the league this year. (See Rask, Halak, Brodeur, Bryzgalov, Kiprusoff, etc.)

So I'm fine with these nominations, and I, like Loki, and partially influenced by homerism, would vote for Crosby.

Well put.

 

[postmaster]

darkstone, when looking at Bryz's stats, are you only comparing them to other goalies or are you taking account the offensive abilities of the team he played for?

 

[Darkstone42]

darkstone, when looking at Bryz's stats, are you only comparing them to other goalies or are you taking account the offensive abilities of the team he played for?

I'm comparing him to other goalies. Considering his team's offensive abilities is too subjective for my treatment of data. He cannot contribute to the offense, he can keep pucks out of the net.

There is no way to accurately account for the effect of a team's play on a goaltender. You can only infer it. Consequently, my style of analysis does not lend itself to such considerations.

Also, the Coyotes play a really good defensive system. And they stick to it. They play it well. They're aggressive and they're active, but they stay in good position. That can only help the goaltender.

Maybe they can't score, but does that make Bryzgalov more valuable? Certainly he's the most valuable player to the Coyotes, but did he add the most value to his team of any player in the league? I say the answer is a decided no.