Harbaugh will surpass Saban in National Titles

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

And the scenario you just laid out is extreme and never, ever will happen.

At this point, you're just angry because you can't legitimately make an argument that michigan will be good this year based on recruiting classes. One thing you've completely ignored: Several teams are successful without the benefit of highly-rated recruiting classes, ie. Utah, TCU, Wisconsin, Arizona, etc

What you think should be the case for recruiting class rankings is irrelevant. You're taking a defined set of parameters developed for a ranking and trying to make it entirely subjective. For example, say Ohio State really needs depth at QB, WR, and CB. They go out and fill those needs with 3/4* guys, and none of them pan out. Do they get a high rank for that class since it filled the holes, even though those players didn't even end up working out?

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. As stated, Michigan is one of the exceptions to the rule that recruiting rankings generally lead to success.

I still maintain that average star ranking is the most important factor, followed by the positions you recruited and how you filled your needs. That was the point of my extreme example, obviously that it would never happen, about LSU.

 

[Across The Field]

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. As stated, Michigan is one of the exceptions to the rule that recruiting rankings generally lead to success.

I still maintain that average star ranking is the most important factor, followed by the positions you recruited and how you filled your needs. That was the point of my extreme example, obviously that it would never happen, about LSU.

You can maintain whatever you want to maintain. Your opinion is duly noted but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Bottom line, and one you still cannot refute, is that michigan hardly has any proven talent on it's roster. That is an enormous problem. I'd rather have a roster full of 3* guys with experience and proven success than a roster full of haphazardly collected 4* guys who aren't living up to their potential. This is the reason you're going to lose to Utah and BYU.

 

[Brasky]

Reading this thread and I just hear this in my head:

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

You can maintain whatever you want to maintain. Your opinion is duly noted but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

Bottom line, and one you still cannot refute, is that michigan hardly has any proven talent on it's roster. That is an enormous problem. I'd rather have a roster full of 3* guys with experience and proven success than a roster full of haphazardly collected 4* guys who aren't living up to their potential. This is the reason you're going to lose to Utah and BYU.

Yup, very little proven talent. That is a problem. That's why I think we'll only win 8 or 9 games and not 10 or 11.

 

[Across The Field]

Yup, very little proven talent. That is a problem. That's why I think we'll only win 8 or 9 games and not 10 or 11.

Winning 8 games is a realistic best case scenario. Anyone outside of AA knows that. Your QB situation is poor, and so is your WR situation. Your defense lost a lot, as well, and lacks any true leadership with Ryan gone. Utah and BYU will give you fits with their ground games, Penn State is just more talented all-around, Minnesota is better and gets you in Minny, and Ohio State and Michigan State are in a completely different stratosphere.

If you win 6 games, don't be upset. That's pretty fair. If you win 8, be elated because that's going to take some miracle work with your current roster.

 

[Across The Field]

Reading this thread and I just hear this in my head:

Yay, offseason!

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Winning 8 games is a realistic best case scenario. Anyone outside of AA knows that. Your QB situation is poor, and so is your WR situation. Your defense lost a lot, as well, and lacks any true leadership with Ryan gone. Utah and BYU will give you fits with their ground games, Penn State is just more talented all-around, Minnesota is better and gets you in Minny, and Ohio State and Michigan State are in a completely different stratosphere.

If you win 6 games, don't be upset. That's pretty fair. If you win 8, be elated because that's going to take some miracle work with your current roster.

Sign. Our QB situation is fine. We have a proven starter, one who can get people the ball and doesn't turn it over.

Michigan returns the most players of any big 10 team and returns just as many defensive starters as OSU. Our defense should be fine, especially on the line and at DB/S where most of that talent was retained.

 

[4down20]

Suddenly reminded of when Michigan fans were all excited about "stealing" Nuss and how they claimed they had like 3 or 4 NFL QB's on their roster.

 

[Across The Field]

Sign. Our QB situation is fine. We have a proven starter, one who can get people the ball and doesn't turn it over.

Michigan returns the most players of any big 10 team and returns just as many defensive starters as OSU. Our defense should be fine, especially on the line and at DB/S where most of that talent was retained.

Sign, indeed.

Your QB situation may be "fine", but with your lack of talent at the skill positions, it needs to be a lot better than that. He's "proven" to be good enough that a relative unknown beat him out for starter at Iowa so he left with his tail between his legs because he knows nobody at michigan is any good.

You return the most players from a shit team. That's not necessarily good. Your defense is decent but losing Ryan and Clark hurts. Also, you're breaking in a brand new defensive coordinator, which isn't going to make things any easier.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Sign, indeed.

Your QB situation may be "fine", but with your lack of talent at the skill positions, it needs to be a lot better than that. He's "proven" to be good enough that a relative unknown beat him out for starter at Iowa so he left with his tail between his legs because he knows nobody at michigan is any good.

You return the most players from a shit team. That's not necessarily good. Your defense is decent but losing Ryan and Clark hurts. Also, you're breaking in a brand new defensive coordinator, which isn't going to make things any easier.

Sign all the way.

 

[Across The Field]

Sign all the way.

Do you suppose Harbaugh's kids resent him for the lack of Christmas presents?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Do you suppose Harbaugh's kids resent him for the lack of Christmas presents?

Probably not

 

[ellupo]

Yup, very little proven talent. That is a problem. That's why I think we'll only win 8 or 9 games and not 10 or 11.

This will all come down to coaching. Jones, Elliot and the Oline were all unproven for tOSU and coaching and effort brought out their best. I still think MI can win 10 including the bowl game. They are very hype in AA and the players will play up.

 

[ericd7633]

Yup, very little proven talent. That is a problem. That's why I think we'll only win 8 or 9 games and not 10 or 11.

Wow your expectations are sky high. I'm predicting 9/10 wins for ND and that's with a ton of proven talent coming back for ND.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Wow your expectations are sky high. I'm predicting 9/10 wins for ND and that's with a ton of proven talent coming back for ND.

"ton" of proven talent?

 

[ericd7633]

"ton" of proven talent?

Ronnie Stanley OT - Best offensive tackle in the country(projected top 5 pick)
Jaylon Smith LB - One of the best LB's in the country(projected top 15 pick)
Will Fuller WR - Tied for 3rd in the country in TD's. Just had the best sophomore season of any ND WR
Corey Robinson WR - Projected 1st rounder
Sheldon Day DT - Projected 2nd rounder
KeiVarae Russell CB - Projected 2nd rounder
Max Redfield S - Projected 2nd rounder

ND returns 16 starters. Weakest position is TE, but when was the last time ND had a bad TE?

 

[ericd7633]

I also forgot about Nick Martin who's also a projected 1st rounder. Is that enough "proven" talent for you?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Here's a great, unbiased, article previewing Michigan from SBNation that illustrates some of what I'm saying:
Jim Harbaugh's almost a sure thing, but Michigan's 2015 could go 2 ways - SBNation.com

Still, Michigan returns virtually everybody else. The Wolverines have one of the deepest sets of run-stuffing linemen in the league, they return four senior linebackers, and they add Stanford transfer Wayne Lyons and safety Jabrill Peppers (a former five-star who missed nine games) to an already experienced secondary.

And they added former Florida defensive coordinator D.J. Durkin while retaining Greg Mattison, now the defensive line coach. They might have lost the heartbeat, but it would be a shock if this wasn't another top-30 defense.

----
On the defensive returning players:

Despite losing Clark and Beyer, Mattison still has plenty of toys. Ends Mario Ojemudia, Taco Charlton, and big Chris Wormley each recorded at least three sacks, as did man-mountain tackle Willie Henry. Michigan has size and proven play-making ability.

The linebacking corps already got some practice without Jake Ryan when he missed part of 2013 with a knee injury. Desmond Morgan was a strong contributor in 2013 but played in only one game last fall before injuring his arm. He was granted a fifth year of eligibility and joins a linebacking corps loaded with seniors. Morgan, Joe Bolden, and James Ross have experience, and while none has matched Ryan, this will be a solid unit.

----

On the secondary:

Stanford's Lyons, once a Harbaugh recruit, ended up in Ann Arbor as a graduate transfer, and a full season of Peppers could be exciting. He played in only three games last year and took a redshirt, but he might already be Michigan's best defensive player ... at least as long as he's well-fed. With Lyons and Peppers joining a unit that was already stocked with experience, it's damn hard to worry about the secondary, too.



I also think people are forgetting that we gain Ty Isaac this year. With Isaac, Green and Smith I have a hard time believing one of them won't present themselves as a solid starting back; especially with what should be a much improved line.

 

[HammerDown]

@clarkson23devils I just changed my rating from Bullshit to Like.

 

[ericd7633]

Here's a great, unbiased, article previewing Michigan from SBNation that illustrates some of what I'm saying:
Jim Harbaugh's almost a sure thing, but Michigan's 2015 could go 2 ways - SBNation.com

Still, Michigan returns virtually everybody else. The Wolverines have one of the deepest sets of run-stuffing linemen in the league, they return four senior linebackers, and they add Stanford transfer Wayne Lyons and safety Jabrill Peppers (a former five-star who missed nine games) to an already experienced secondary.

And they added former Florida defensive coordinator D.J. Durkin while retaining Greg Mattison, now the defensive line coach. They might have lost the heartbeat, but it would be a shock if this wasn't another top-30 defense.

----
On the defensive returning players:

Despite losing Clark and Beyer, Mattison still has plenty of toys. Ends Mario Ojemudia, Taco Charlton, and big Chris Wormley each recorded at least three sacks, as did man-mountain tackle Willie Henry. Michigan has size and proven play-making ability.

The linebacking corps already got some practice without Jake Ryan when he missed part of 2013 with a knee injury. Desmond Morgan was a strong contributor in 2013 but played in only one game last fall before injuring his arm. He was granted a fifth year of eligibility and joins a linebacking corps loaded with seniors. Morgan, Joe Bolden, and James Ross have experience, and while none has matched Ryan, this will be a solid unit.

----

On the secondary:

Stanford's Lyons, once a Harbaugh recruit, ended up in Ann Arbor as a graduate transfer, and a full season of Peppers could be exciting. He played in only three games last year and took a redshirt, but he might already be Michigan's best defensive player ... at least as long as he's well-fed. With Lyons and Peppers joining a unit that was already stocked with experience, it's damn hard to worry about the secondary, too.



I also think people are forgetting that we gain Ty Isaac this year. With Isaac, Green and Smith I have a hard time believing one of them won't present themselves as a solid starting back; especially with what should be a much improved line.

So they're projecting them to finish in the mid 30's in the country. Which would probably put them at 7-5.