Greatest NFL Player Tournament - (11) Ronnie Lott vs (22) John Elway

[iowajerms]

This Week

14th seed – DE Deacon Jones vs 19th seed – QB Brett Favre
11th seed – DB Ronnie Lott vs 22nd seed – QB John Elway

Seeds are based on a ranking from NFL.com. I did not include the two offensive linemen that are in the top 24.

This will be double elimination. Allowed to change votes until deadline. Higher seed advances in case of a tie.

Bracket

Spoiler: ”First Round Matchups”

Barry Sanders vs Ray Lewis thread
Don Hutson vs Bob Lily thread

 

[4down20]

wrong forum?

 

[iowajerms]

wrong forum?

My browser froze and I clicked on the "restore session" button. Didn't even think to look to see what forum it was in. Can a mod please move this to NFL forum?

 

[blstoker]

Had to go with Ronnie Lott. One of the best (if not the gold standard) at the safety position against one of the most overrated QBs of all time (I know Broncos fans aren't gonna like that statement, they never do, but at least Joe Namath is more overrated....).

 

[Boise4Life]

Lott was great. But Elway was easily one of the greatest players of any position of all-time, possibly the greatest quarterback ever. At least he was the greatest QB I've ever seen (along with maybe Joe Montana).

 

[Across The Field]

Had to go with Ronnie Lott. One of the best (if not the gold standard) at the safety position against one of the most overrated QBs of all time (I know Broncos fans aren't gonna like that statement, they never do, but at least Joe Namath is more overrated....).

So I don't have an interest in propping up Elway, per se, but what made him overrated?

 

[blstoker]

So I don't have an interest in propping up Elway, per se, but what made him overrated?

He road college hype into the NFL while being at best average for the first decade of his career. People constantly want to say he's the top qb ever, or top 5, I have him more as top 20.

Overrated isn't saying he wasn't good, just not as good as people want to claim he was. I will give that I'm a Seahawks fan and may have slightly colored glasses due to the 80s rivalry and such, but I just can't put a guy up there who was average for the first 10 years of his career.

 

[tducey]

Lott.

 

[iowajerms]

Yeah, wrong forum for this one. But the 2 in the poll is correct.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lott was great. But Elway was easily one of the greatest players of any position of all-time, possibly the greatest quarterback ever. At least he was the greatest QB I've ever seen (along with maybe Joe Montana).

So is Lott and he had part of his pinky finger amputated so he could play.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, wrong forum for this one. But the 2 in the poll is correct.

Where does it belong? I'll move it for you.

 

[iowajerms]

Where does it belong? I'll move it for you.

NFL General

 

[trojanfan12]

NFL General

Done.

 

[iowajerms]

Thank you

 

[cdumler7]

Of course went with Elway. Those saying he was average for the first part of his career are focused on stats and stats alone. He had a terrible coach who wouldn't play to his strengths. The only time he was allowed to play to his strengths was when the team was down in the 4th quarter and he was given freedom to do whatever. There is a reason he is called "Captain Comeback." He was clutch when they absolutely needed a play. It also showed up in the playoffs as he took very mediocre teams (didn't really play with HOF players until the very end of his career) and ended up going to the 2nd most Super Bowls in NFL history only behind now Tom Brady. Yes I know his Super Bowl record is not the greatest which is why I would never call him the GOAT for the position as I still give that to Montana but at that point the NFC was so dominant it was about impossible for and AFC team to win. It had been 13 years if I remember right before the Broncos finally broke the streak of NFC teams winning the Super Bowl.

 

[iowajerms]

Of course went with Elway. Those saying he was average for the first part of his career are focused on stats and stats alone. He had a terrible coach who wouldn't play to his strengths. The only time he was allowed to play to his strengths was when the team was down in the 4th quarter and he was given freedom to do whatever. There is a reason he is called "Captain Comeback." He was clutch when they absolutely needed a play. It also showed up in the playoffs as he took very mediocre teams (didn't really play with HOF players until the very end of his career) and ended up going to the 2nd most Super Bowls in NFL history only behind now Tom Brady. Yes I know his Super Bowl record is not the greatest which is why I would never call him the GOAT for the position as I still give that to Montana but at that point the NFC was so dominant it was about impossible for and AFC team to win. It had been 13 years if I remember right before the Broncos finally broke the streak of NFC teams winning the Super Bowl.

I have a lot of respect for Elway. I don't think I would have added him to this though, if I were to make the seeds. Yeah, I could have done that, but I decided to use NFL's website to determine seeds. I always respected Elway's loyalty and how he hung in there for 15 years to win the Big One. I like how he sacrificed his body for the team.

But if I were to discuss greatest QBs of all time, Elway probably would not make it in. We had gone through around 8-10 other names.

If we were talking about greatest DBs, it wouldn't take too long for Ronnie Lott. Is he the best DB? Possibly. He's the only one in this tournament.

 

[cdumler7]

I have a lot of respect for Elway. I don't think I would have added him to this though, if I were to make the seeds. Yeah, I could have done that, but I decided to use NFL's website to determine seeds. I always respected Elway's loyalty and how he hung in there for 15 years to win the Big One. I like how he sacrificed his body for the team.

But if I were to discuss greatest QBs of all time, Elway probably would not make it in. We had gone through around 8-10 other names.

If we were talking about greatest DBs, it wouldn't take too long for Ronnie Lott. Is he the best DB? Possibly. He's the only one in this tournament.

Which I understand. Like I said I don't have him as my GOAT. I have him in my top-10. What he did in the clutch is pretty much unrivaled in this league. His actual stats though and 3 Super Bowl losses hurt his legacy.
As for Ronnie Lott he would definitely be in my top-5 DB's. I just think actual impact on the game Elway has done so much more. Now given I am a homer so have to take that into account in all of this.

 

[DenBronc]

Had to go with Ronnie Lott. One of the best (if not the gold standard) at the safety position against one of the most overrated QBs of all time (I know Broncos fans aren't gonna like that statement, they never do, but at least Joe Namath is more overrated....).

Lott isn't the best DB of all-time. Not even close. He was good, but he was a product of media hype. I would have guys like Rod Woodson, Champ Bailey, Night Train Lane, Mel Blount, and Ed Reed over him, among others.

As for Elway, Cdumler7 was right when he was put in a bad offense. People focus too much on his stats. Steve Watson called Reeves' system the Edsel System, and basically said that Dan cared more about pass protection than attacking a defense.

Elway had good numbers in college, and when he reunited with his ex-QB coach Jim Fassel in 93, he started posting those same numbers again. Elway was the only reason that the 86 and 87 Bronco teams were even in the Super Bowl, and he is a top-5 QB all-time easy.

 

[blstoker]

Lott isn't the best DB of all-time. Not even close. He was good, but he was a product of media hype. I would have guys like Rod Woodson, Champ Bailey, Night Train Lane, Mel Blount, and Ed Reed over him, among others.

I said safety, which limits the positions looked at in the DBfield, which would leave Night Train Lane, Champ Bailey and Mel Blount out of the conversation, and hamper Woodson as he only played safety at the end of his career. Ed Reed is a good comparison to Lott, but he could just as easily be called a product of his team's success and media hype as much as the argument could be made for Lott. I'm not sure I would rank Lott #1, but if not, he wouldn't be very far away from there.

As for Elway, I understand that Bronco's fans and I will not see eye to eye on Elway. It just isn't gonna happen. Kind've like at the moment Indianapolis Colts fans and I don't see eye to eye on Andrew Luck.

 

[Southieinnc]

I'm a reverse homer on this one. I hated Elway 40 years ago, why would I like him now?