Good chance team name gets changed per report.

[Stymietee]

No make up about it , it’s exactly what’s in play

I agree wokeism as I now redefine it is in play. You can do it so can I.

 

[Stymietee]

The idea that it was to his “advantage “ to be an American Indian at the turn of the 19th century is flat out ridiculous. He was born less than a decade after the Indian wars and prejudice was still very high . Those schools he attended were designed to “ cleanse “ American Indians their Culture and “ Americanize “ them . They certainly would boost a white of German Ancestry to greater promise . They weren’t even allowed to speak their native languages. Sorry I reject that at face value because it doesn’t add up . My philosophy is if you want to silence something then most likely the silencer has something to hide . All you have to do is simply google left wing google up to find the answers

Enlighten us all,... why would a person of German ancestry, pretend to be Native American?

 

[Stymietee]

I know that you WANT to be right so picking and choosing from something seems like the natural thing to do ordinarily, however, this is Sty, and you should know by now that whatever anyone posts, I'm going to research it in full context. It's rather long but here's your response in context. Btw; take note of the dates mentioned and the world that George Preston marshall was born into. (
Born: October 11, 1896, Grafton, WV
Died: August 9, 1969 (age 72 years), District of Columbia

Code Switch​

Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin'​

SEPTEMBER 9, 201310:46 AM ET
By
Lakshmi Gandhi

A Washington Redskins fan watches from the sidelines during the first half of an NFL preseason football game this August.
Nick Wass/AP
Monday Night Football kicks off this evening with the Washington Redskins facing off against the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field. As the Redskins start a new season, they are once again in the center of a national debate about their name.
On Thursday, the Oneida Indian Nation in upstate New York announced the launch of a radio ad campaign urging the team to change its moniker. The ad begins with an Oneida leader commending NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for condemning the behavior of Eagles player Riley Cooper, after Cooper was recorded using the N-word at a concert this summer. While the narrator applauds the NFL for taking swift action in the Cooper case, he then draws a parallel between that slur and the word "redskin." "We do not deserve to be called redskins," he says in the ad. "We deserve to be treated as what we are — Americans." The spots began airing in the D.C. market on Sunday. (You can listen to it in full here.)
Sponsor Message


The Oneida campaign is just the latest protest this year against the Redskins' name. The online magazine Slate made headlines last month when it declared the site will no longer use "Redskins" to refer to the franchise, choosing instead to refer to "the Washington NFL team" from now on. Slate isn't alone: The New Republic and Mother Jones quickly followed suit. Major news sources like The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Associated Press, however, will continue to refer to the team as the "Redskins" this season.
But where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."
According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."
Sponsor Message


The Pioneers and other books by Cooper were largely seen as sympathetic toward Native Americans and their struggles in the 1800s. Decades later, the word "redskin" began to take on a negative, increasingly violent connotation. Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee with a pair of editorials calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."
At around the same time the word "redskin" was becoming a word with negative connotations, other Native American words and images were becoming increasingly popular symbols for sports teams. In an article for the North Dakota Law Review, J. Gordon Hylton found that team owners frequently began using words with indigenous connections in the 1850s. "Native American names appear to have been chosen to emphasize the 'Americanness' of the team and its patriotic character," writes Hylton, without noting that at the same time popular culture was relegating Native Americans to the foreign and the extreme.
While Cooper's portrayal of Native Americans in books like The Pioneers was sympathetic, the portrayal of Indians created a backlash of sorts. In 1915, the poet Earl Emmons released Redskin Rimes, a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
Sponsor Message


Emmons' book was emblematic of the usage of the word "redskins" in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as the word went from being an identifying term to a derogatory slur. By the 1910s, it wasn't uncommon for filmgoers to encounter it, with the word frequently popping up in the titles of American Westerns.
The hit film Redskin (1929) was notable for two reasons: first, that it was one of the first films to use Technicolor; and secondly, that the script was surprisingly sympathetic toward its main character, a Navajo Indian who is constantly harassed because of his race. The portrayal of Native Americans in Redskin was very much ahead of its time — other films that used the word portrayed the culture as primitive and war-hungry. The 1932 Tom and Jerry cartoon "Redskin Blues" follows the beloved characters as they are attacked by Indians, surviving after they are rescued by the U.S. Army.
Just a year after that stereotype-laden Tom and Jerry cartoon was released, Boston Braves owner George Preston Marshall decided in 1933 to change the franchise's name from the Braves (another name with a racial history) to the Redskins. Team lore says the franchise adopted the name in honor of former coach William "Lone Star" Dietz, who identified as Native American. Dietz brought several Native American players he had coached at the Haskell Indian School with him to the team. Marshall also sought to strongly tie the team to Native American imagery, occasionally requiring Dietz to wear a Sioux headdress on the sidelines and telling players to wear war paint while on the field.

The cover of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat Sunday supplement from January 1908 shows William "Lone Star" Dietz, who in 1916 coached Washington State University to a Rose Bowl victory, in full Indian dress. Some credit Dietz with inspiring the name of the Redskins.
AP
Five years later, the team unveiled its fight song, "Hail to the Redskins," with lyrics written by Marshall's wife, actress Corinne Griffith. The original lyrics to the song included both references to scalping and pidgin English, with the line "Scalp 'em, swamp 'em — we will take 'em big score / Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown! — we want heap more

 

[Stymietee]

Fight SongOn August 17, 1938, "Hail to the Redskins" made its debut as the official fight song of the Washington Redskins. Since its debut 54 years ago, the song, written by renowned band leader Barnee Breeskin, has had a few minor changes from the original lyrics penned by Corinne Griffith (wife of owner George Preston Marshall). Griffith's original lyrics had "Fight for old Dixie" instreadof today's "Fight for old D.C." Also, Griffith originally had "Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em. We will take‘em big score. Read 'em, weep ‘em Touchdown, we want heap more” instead of today's version.


The original words were:
Hail to the Redskins!

Hail Victory!

Braves on the Warpath!

Fight for old Dixie!

Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!

Scalp 'em, swamp 'em -- We will take 'em big score

Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown - we want heap more

Fight on, Fight on -- 'Till you have won



Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!,


Btw; Just in case you're wondering if she too was born during the time when disparagement was the norm...

Corinne Griffith
Born	Corinne Griffin November 21, 1894 Waco, Texas, U.S.
Died	July 13, 1979 (aged 84) Santa Monica, California, U.S.

 

[kbso83432]

Fight SongOn August 17, 1938, "Hail to the Redskins" made its debut as the official fight song of the Washington Redskins. Since its debut 54 years ago, the song, written by renowned band leader Barnee Breeskin, has had a few minor changes from the original lyrics penned by Corinne Griffith (wife of owner George Preston Marshall). Griffith's original lyrics had "Fight for old Dixie" instreadof today's "Fight for old D.C." Also, Griffith originally had "Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em. We will take‘em big score. Read 'em, weep ‘em Touchdown, we want heap more” instead of today's version.


The original words were:
Hail to the Redskins!

Hail Victory!

Braves on the Warpath!

Fight for old Dixie!

Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!

Scalp 'em, swamp 'em -- We will take 'em big score

Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown - we want heap more

Fight on, Fight on -- 'Till you have won



Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!,


Btw; Just in case you're wondering if she too was born during the time when disparagement was the norm...

Corinne Griffith
Born	Corinne Griffin November 21, 1894 Waco, Texas, U.S.
Died	July 13, 1979 (aged 84) Santa Monica, California, U.S.

I knew about the Dixie line. Did not know the rest of that.

 

[Stymietee]

I knew about the Dixie line. Did not know the rest of that.

Yep! My family was made aware of it in 1963! There was a lot of controversy surrounding the Bobby Mitchell trade to D.C. and the stadium deal that ultimately forced changes.

 

[Stymietee]

Yep! My family was made aware of it in 1963! There was a lot of controversy surrounding the Bobby Mitchell trade to D.C. and the stadium deal that ultimately forced changes.

Let me amend this to make it clear that my best recollection of this awareness happened in 1963.

 

[Sportster 72]

Just to stoke the fires


or other woke folks.





All kidding aside there are two sides to every story. Blackfeet vs. Oneida. Oddly I have not see anyone mention the Piscataway Indians of southern MD. They are against the name Redskins. So much for research huh?

I think most of us had said we could live with a name other than Redskins if it had something to do with the teams former name and history. I know the history of George Preston Marshall and that is not what I am referring to, that wrong was righted 60 years ago. There were plenty of us that took pride in that name without being mean or racist. Braves, Warriors anything in that vane would work.

I am done stirring the pot now.

 

[Rowdy]

That literature doesn’t change my mind one bit. The name was to honor the Redskins along with the song

 

[skinsdad62]

I know that you WANT to be right so picking and choosing from something seems like the natural thing to do ordinarily, however, this is Sty, and you should know by now that whatever anyone posts, I'm going to research it in full context. It's rather long but here's your response in context. Btw; take note of the dates mentioned and the world that George Preston marshall was born into. (
Born: October 11, 1896, Grafton, WV
Died: August 9, 1969 (age 72 years), District of Columbia

Code Switch​

Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin'​

SEPTEMBER 9, 201310:46 AM ET
By
Lakshmi Gandhi

A Washington Redskins fan watches from the sidelines during the first half of an NFL preseason football game this August.
Nick Wass/AP
Monday Night Football kicks off this evening with the Washington Redskins facing off against the Philadelphia Eagles at FedEx Field. As the Redskins start a new season, they are once again in the center of a national debate about their name.
On Thursday, the Oneida Indian Nation in upstate New York announced the launch of a radio ad campaign urging the team to change its moniker. The ad begins with an Oneida leader commending NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for condemning the behavior of Eagles player Riley Cooper, after Cooper was recorded using the N-word at a concert this summer. While the narrator applauds the NFL for taking swift action in the Cooper case, he then draws a parallel between that slur and the word "redskin." "We do not deserve to be called redskins," he says in the ad. "We deserve to be treated as what we are — Americans." The spots began airing in the D.C. market on Sunday. (You can listen to it in full here.)
Sponsor Message


The Oneida campaign is just the latest protest this year against the Redskins' name. The online magazine Slate made headlines last month when it declared the site will no longer use "Redskins" to refer to the franchise, choosing instead to refer to "the Washington NFL team" from now on. Slate isn't alone: The New Republic and Mother Jones quickly followed suit. Major news sources like The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Associated Press, however, will continue to refer to the team as the "Redskins" this season.
But where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."
According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers. In the book, Cooper has a dying Indian character lament, "There will soon be no red-skin in the country."
Sponsor Message


The Pioneers and other books by Cooper were largely seen as sympathetic toward Native Americans and their struggles in the 1800s. Decades later, the word "redskin" began to take on a negative, increasingly violent connotation. Author L. Frank Baum, best known for his classic The Wizard of Oz, celebrated the death of Sitting Bull and the massacre at Wounded Knee with a pair of editorials calling for the extermination of all remaining Native Americans. In one of the December 1890 pieces, Baum wrote, "With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them."
At around the same time the word "redskin" was becoming a word with negative connotations, other Native American words and images were becoming increasingly popular symbols for sports teams. In an article for the North Dakota Law Review, J. Gordon Hylton found that team owners frequently began using words with indigenous connections in the 1850s. "Native American names appear to have been chosen to emphasize the 'Americanness' of the team and its patriotic character," writes Hylton, without noting that at the same time popular culture was relegating Native Americans to the foreign and the extreme.
While Cooper's portrayal of Native Americans in books like The Pioneers was sympathetic, the portrayal of Indians created a backlash of sorts. In 1915, the poet Earl Emmons released Redskin Rimes, a book so offensive I had to double-check to make sure it wasn't a parody of the racism of that era. Emmons makes his intentions clear in the introduction of the work: "Those persons who got their idea of the Indian from Mr. Cooper have pictured him as an injured innocent. ... Those persons have acquired the wrong idea of the maroon brother." That introduction kicks off a series of poems, songs and speeches, each more offensive than the last.
Sponsor Message


Emmons' book was emblematic of the usage of the word "redskins" in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as the word went from being an identifying term to a derogatory slur. By the 1910s, it wasn't uncommon for filmgoers to encounter it, with the word frequently popping up in the titles of American Westerns.
The hit film Redskin (1929) was notable for two reasons: first, that it was one of the first films to use Technicolor; and secondly, that the script was surprisingly sympathetic toward its main character, a Navajo Indian who is constantly harassed because of his race. The portrayal of Native Americans in Redskin was very much ahead of its time — other films that used the word portrayed the culture as primitive and war-hungry. The 1932 Tom and Jerry cartoon "Redskin Blues" follows the beloved characters as they are attacked by Indians, surviving after they are rescued by the U.S. Army.
Just a year after that stereotype-laden Tom and Jerry cartoon was released, Boston Braves owner George Preston Marshall decided in 1933 to change the franchise's name from the Braves (another name with a racial history) to the Redskins. Team lore says the franchise adopted the name in honor of former coach William "Lone Star" Dietz, who identified as Native American. Dietz brought several Native American players he had coached at the Haskell Indian School with him to the team. Marshall also sought to strongly tie the team to Native American imagery, occasionally requiring Dietz to wear a Sioux headdress on the sidelines and telling players to wear war paint while on the field.

ece

The cover of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat Sunday supplement from January 1908 shows William "Lone Star" Dietz, who in 1916 coached Washington State University to a Rose Bowl victory, in full Indian dress. Some credit Dietz with inspiring the name of the Redskins.
AP
Five years later, the team unveiled its fight song, "Hail to the Redskins," with lyrics written by Marshall's wife, actress Corinne Griffith. The original lyrics to the song included both references to scalping and pidgin English, with the line "Scalp 'em, swamp 'em — we will take 'em big score / Read 'em, weep 'em, touchdown! — we want heap more

Trotting out the “new republic “ and mother jones hardly moves the needle for me . In fact no article based on a “ press account “ will do . The Smithsonian, which shouldnt be biased either way is a much better source . as for the author of this piece i know very little about him and how he is some kind of expert on washington redskins history . is he an american now or does he still live in india ?

 

[Stymietee]

Trotting out the “new republic “ and mother jones hardly moves the needle for me . In fact no article based on a “ press account “ will do . The Smithsonian, which shouldnt be biased either way is a much better source . as for the author of this piece i know very little about him and how he is some kind of expert on washington redskins history . is he an american now or does he still live in india ?

My post incorporated the same source that yours did, so are you now trying to convince me that your post, in full context, lacked credibility?
Dismissing sourced material because "it hardly moves the needle for me (you)" is an issue that I'll not go further into because it's a stand alone statement which is of no consequence towards meaningful conversation.

 

[skinsdad62]

My post incorporated the same source that yours did, so are you now trying to convince me that your post, in full context, lacked credibility?
Dismissing sourced material because "it hardly moves the needle for me (you)" is an issue that I'll not go further into because it's a stand alone statement which is of no consequence towards meaningful conversation.

I won’t accept sources that aren’t viable in this or many other debates because it’s propaganda at best . No one as a fan of the former Washington Redskins did so with racist intentions . Poll after poll shows the vast majority of Native American’s didn’t care about the name

 

[redskinsfan1963]

I won’t accept sources that aren’t viable in this or many other debates because it’s propaganda at best . No one as a fan of the former Washington Redskins did so with racist intentions . Poll after poll shows the vast majority of Native American’s didn’t care about the name

I agree,but like you,I think America is too full of stupidity,wokeness and bullshit to ever let it comeback.

 

[gkekoa]

It is unarguable that the first time the term Redskins was used historically was in agreements between the American Indian and settlers. The Indians referred to themselves as Redskins.

It is also unarguable that the first people to “scalp” anybody on this continent was the indians.

 

[Stymietee]

I won’t accept sources that aren’t viable in this or many other debates because it’s propaganda at best . No one as a fan of the former Washington Redskins did so with racist intentions . Poll after poll shows the vast majority of Native American’s didn’t care about the name

This is exactly why I ended my previous post the way that I did. What you've written here is limited in scope and eliminates anything that is disagreeable as not viable.

 

[Stymietee]

I agree,but like you,I think America is too full of stupidity,wokeness and bullshit to ever let it comeback.

America has been full of bullshit, stupid and corruptable people, long before the made up wokeness craze of 2023-2024 came into play. In fact, "woke"resulted from the actions of these cowardly curs, not as part of it.

 

[skinsdad62]

This is exactly why I ended my previous post the way that I did. What you've written here is limited in scope and eliminates anything that is disagreeable as not viable.

Propaganda sites aren’t viable , has nothing to do with disagreeable, that can be debated , but I won’t validate propaganda

 

[Stymietee]

No one as a fan of the former Washington Redskins did so with racist intentions .

I agree,but like you,I think America is too full of stupidity,wokeness and bullshit to ever let it comeback.

I honestly attempted to let this foolishness slide, but it's a rarely seen, teachable moment that I've come back to it.
Do both of you truly believe that racism is only recognizedor given credence when it's intentional?

 

[redskinsfan1963]

America has been full of bullshit, stupid and corruptable people, long before the made up wokeness craze of 2023-2024 came into play. In fact, "woke"resulted from the actions of these cowardly curs, not as part of it.

still won,t come back.i have sent unbelievable racism in my 61 years that would blow your mind.klan walked down main street in front of my uncle,s story when I was 6.saw a fight between racists/communists at a local hs that lead to a Greensboro shootout 3 months later.you get the gist I hope.

 

[skinsdad62]

I honestly attempted to let this foolishness slide, but it's a rarely seen, teachable moment that I've come back to it.
Do both of you truly believe that racism is only recognizedor given credence when it's intentional?

i am sorry but words can be made racist by the person delivering or the context or inflection used .