Gold Glove, shmold glove

[Clayton]

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Pitcher
Adam Wainwright, Cardinals

Catcher
A.J. Ellis, Dodgers

Good thing this is a regular season award

 

[cezero]

Fielding Bible Awards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gold Glove Awards

The Gold Glove Awards have been a tremendous joke for a very long time.

 

[BigDDude]

Good thing this is a regular season award

Like it really mattered......, in respect to Ellis.

They might as well call the one for catchers "The Molina".

On a related note, older brother Bengie is 39, making him just about old enough to have a son about to start college ball.


hmmm....

 

[BigDDude]

Fielding Bible Awards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gold Glove Awards

The Gold Glove Awards have been a tremendous joke for a very long time.

See post # 18 above....

 

[cezero]

See post # 18 above....

Yeah, I saw it.

Let me put together a list of hilarious gold glove awards over the past 10 years. You do the same with fielding bible awards.

I'm pretty sure you'll see that my post was not incorrect in any way if you're honest with yourself.

 

[BigDDude]

Yeah, I saw it.

Let me put together a list of hilarious gold glove awards over the past 10 years. You do the same with fielding bible awards.

I'm pretty sure you'll see that my post was not incorrect in any way if you're honest with yourself.

I have not once checked out the fielding bible. That said, with what I know of the G.G's, that bible just HAS TO BE better, more accurate, and more reflective of a players individual year & award worthiness.

 

[uncfan103]

you really didn't just pick Andy Dirks?...sorta blew it, didn't read any after that.

I obviously don't watch every Tigers game. I based it on statistics which showed he was the best of the three. It's kinda funny that he gets so much hate on here even though his statistics show he sucks. He must look terrible trying to field a routine fly ball.

 

[BigDDude]

I obviously don't watch every Tigers game. I based it on statistics which showed he was the best of the three. It's kinda funny that he gets so much hate on here even though his statistics show he sucks. He must look terrible trying to field a routine fly ball.

Works for Hunter Pence. However, he looks akward doing just about everything on the baseball field.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Works for Hunter Pence. However, he looks akward doing just about everything on the baseball field.

Which he does while looking very, very creepy..

 

[da55bums]

Finalists:

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Pitcher
Mark Buehrle, Blue Jays
R.A. Dickey, Blue Jays
Doug Fister, Tigers - Winner, and it shouldn't be close
Catcher
Joe Mauer, Twins
Salvador Perez, Royals
Matt Wieters, Orioles - winner, but very close was Perez, Perez's DWAR could tip it in his favor
First base
Chris Davis, Orioles - winner 3rd ranked 1b but also 40 more games than top 2.
Eric Hosmer, Royals
James Loney, Rays
Second base
Robinson Cano, Yankees
Dustin Pedroia, Red Sox - winner tied with Zobrist in fielding pct...but over 30 DP's more
Ben Zobrist, Rays
Third base
Adrian Beltre, Rangers
Evan Longoria, Rays
Manny Machado, Orioles - winner, landslide, isn't even close
Shortstop
Alcides Escobar, Royals
Yunel Escobar, Rays - winner, 1st in fielding pct
J.J. Hardy, Orioles
Left field
Yoenis Cespedes, A's
Andy Dirks, Tigers
Alex Gordon, Royals - winner, 1st in Assists, 1st in DP, 1st in DWAR
Center field
Lorenzo Cain, Royals
Jacoby Ellsbury, Red Sox - winner, as much as I would like Cain, not this year
Adam Jones, Orioles
Right field
Nick Markakis, Orioles - winner, another year of no errors and think he won it last year because of that
Shane Victorino, Red Sox
Josh Reddick, A's

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Pitcher
Patrick Corbin, D-backs
Zack Greinke, Dodgers
Adam Wainwright, Cardinals - winner over Greinke because of more chances and DP's
Catcher
A.J. Ellis, Dodgers
Russell Martin, Pirates
Yadier Molina, Cardinals - winner over Martin because he hits better
First base
Paul Goldschmidt, D-backs winner if they include hitting
Adrian Gonzalez, Dodgers
Anthony Rizzo, Cubs - winner, for some reason 50 more assists than Goldy
Second base
Darwin Barney, Cubs - winner, if just defense
Brandon Phillips, Reds
Mark Ellis, Dodgers
Third base
Nolan Arenado, Rockies - winner, shouldn't be close unless they blackball 1st year players
Juan Uribe, Dodgers
David Wright, Mets
Shortstop
Ian Desmond, Nationals
Andrelton Simmons, Braves - winner, if just defense
Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies
Left field
Carlos Gonzalez, Rockies
Starling Marte, Pirates - winner
Eric Young Jr., Mets (he was a bench warmer for half a season?)
Center field
Carlos Gomez, Brewers - winner, defensive stud
Andrew McCutchen, Pirates
Denard Span, Nationals
Right field
Jay Bruce, Reds
Jason Heyward, Braves
Gerardo Parra, D-backs - winner even with the worst SB percentage in the league

I will throw my picks out there.

 

[uncfan103]

Finalists:

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Pitcher
Mark Buehrle, Blue Jays
R.A. Dickey, Blue Jays
Doug Fister, Tigers - Winner, and it shouldn't be close
Catcher
Joe Mauer, Twins
Salvador Perez, Royals
Matt Wieters, Orioles - winner, but very close was Perez, Perez's DWAR could tip it in his favor
First base
Chris Davis, Orioles - winner 3rd ranked 1b but also 40 more games than top 2.
Eric Hosmer, Royals
James Loney, Rays
Second base
Robinson Cano, Yankees
Dustin Pedroia, Red Sox - winner tied with Zobrist in fielding pct...but over 30 DP's more
Ben Zobrist, Rays
Third base
Adrian Beltre, Rangers
Evan Longoria, Rays
Manny Machado, Orioles - winner, landslide, isn't even close
Shortstop
Alcides Escobar, Royals
Yunel Escobar, Rays - winner, 1st in fielding pct
J.J. Hardy, Orioles
Left field
Yoenis Cespedes, A's
Andy Dirks, Tigers
Alex Gordon, Royals - winner, 1st in Assists, 1st in DP, 1st in DWAR
Center field
Lorenzo Cain, Royals
Jacoby Ellsbury, Red Sox - winner, as much as I would like Cain, not this year
Adam Jones, Orioles
Right field
Nick Markakis, Orioles - winner, another year of no errors and think he won it last year because of that
Shane Victorino, Red Sox
Josh Reddick, A's

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Pitcher
Patrick Corbin, D-backs
Zack Greinke, Dodgers
Adam Wainwright, Cardinals - winner over Greinke because of more chances and DP's
Catcher
A.J. Ellis, Dodgers
Russell Martin, Pirates
Yadier Molina, Cardinals - winner over Martin because he hits better
First base
Paul Goldschmidt, D-backs winner if they include hitting
Adrian Gonzalez, Dodgers
Anthony Rizzo, Cubs - winner, for some reason 50 more assists than Goldy
Second base
Darwin Barney, Cubs - winner, if just defense
Brandon Phillips, Reds
Mark Ellis, Dodgers
Third base
Nolan Arenado, Rockies - winner, shouldn't be close unless they blackball 1st year players
Juan Uribe, Dodgers
David Wright, Mets
Shortstop
Ian Desmond, Nationals
Andrelton Simmons, Braves - winner, if just defense
Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies
Left field
Carlos Gonzalez, Rockies
Starling Marte, Pirates - winner
Eric Young Jr., Mets (he was a bench warmer for half a season?)
Center field
Carlos Gomez, Brewers - winner, defensive stud
Andrew McCutchen, Pirates
Denard Span, Nationals
Right field
Jay Bruce, Reds
Jason Heyward, Braves
Gerardo Parra, D-backs - winner even with the worst SB percentage in the league

I will throw my picks out there.

Where are you getting your DWar stats? According to Fangraphs (unless I looked at it wrong) Gordon is below both Dirks and Cespedes in DWar and in UZR/150. Gordan also has the worst RZR, and range. His +/- isn't better than Dirks and is only slightly above Cespedes even though he played way more innings.

It would also be a shame if they give it to Markasis over Victorino considering one was the best at his position in the AL and the other one was the worst. Markasis didn't make errors because he didn't get to ball that other people could. His range is limited and it prevented him from making errors. Victorino had a great year.

 

[da55bums]

I thought it was crap last year Markakis won it, but he won it because of no errors..

Dirks wasn't full time...thats like saying Lorezno Cain, Eric Young Jr, Mark Ellis, Juan Uribe should all be considered also....play a full season

Got DWAR off of ESPN's site...along with assist numbers, DP numbers, etc....fyi.

 

[broncosmitty]

Based on what? Advanced statistics show he's quite a bit better than both Torii Hunter and Austin Jackson.

Reality.

 

[broncosmitty]

According to fangraphs.... That line always makes me smile.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Questionable that EYJr gets nominated over Lagares. Lagares has a much better glove than Young and probably one of the best in the league

 

[uncfan103]

I thought it was crap last year Markakis won it, but he won it because of no errors..

Dirks wasn't full time...thats like saying Lorezno Cain, Eric Young Jr, Mark Ellis, Juan Uribe should all be considered also....play a full season

Got DWAR off of ESPN's site...along with assist numbers, DP numbers, etc....fyi.

Thanks. In that case Alex Gordam is a lock considering Dirks played more innings than Cespedes. I wasn't looking at it like that.

 

[uncfan103]

According to fangraphs.... That line always makes me smile.

Why? How else are you going to measure who can make plays that on average are not made? How else do you know what kind of range they have, and how they do on plays they should make. If people just wanna look at fielding percentage they'd think Matt Holliday and Nick Markasis were good fielders. If you just watch and outfielder you could assume one sucks or is good even when he isn't.

The reality is that Dirks performed better than everyone else on the tigers this year. Could it have wen luck? Absolutely. It could've been flukey but this year he still had one of the best seasons defensively for an AL left fielder.

 

[broncosmitty]

Why? How else are you going to measure who can make plays that on average are not made? How else do you know what kind of range they have, and how they do on plays they should make. If people just wanna look at fielding percentage they'd think Matt Holliday and Nick Markasis were good fielders. If you just watch and outfielder you could assume one sucks or is good even when he isn't.

The reality is that Dirks performed better than everyone else on the tigers this year. Could it have wen luck? Absolutely. It could've been flukey but this year he still had one of the best seasons defensively for an AL left fielder.

Notice I didn't comment on anyone I don't regularly watch? Without seeing a player, game in game out, you can't judge their defense. Especially off some arbitrary speculative statistics. If you want to, go ahead. Spreadsheets let everyone have an opinion on things they shouldnt. But don't try and tell me Dirks is a better outfielder than Jackson. Cuz he's not. Very was, never will will be. If statistics show that he is than there is something wrong with the way the make believe numbers are compiled.(Statistics will tell you Cuba has achieved 100% literacy...) I never said Dirks sucked either. He's average. Average defensive players who aren't used as defensive replacements in important games shouldn't be winning defensive awards. (He's not tops on his team and isn't the best leftfielder in his division)

 

[uncfan103]

Notice I didn't comment on anyone I don't regularly watch? Without seeing a player, game in game out, you can't judge their defense. Especially off some arbitrary speculative statistics. If you want to, go ahead. Spreadsheets let everyone have an opinion on things they shouldnt. But don't try and tell me Dirks is a better outfielder than Jackson. Cuz he's not. Very was, never will will be. If statistics show that he is than there is something wrong with the way the make believe numbers are compiled.(Statistics will tell you Cuba has achieved 100% literacy...) I never said Dirks sucked either. He's average. Average defensive players who aren't used as defensive replacements in important games shouldn't be winning defensive awards. (He's not tops on his team and isn't the best leftfielder in his division)

Again, you have no facts to back up your argument except that Fangraphs is flawed. Fangraphs measures where a ball is hit, and the trajectory and if an average player would have made the play and you didn't you get a minus. If you make a play the average player did not make you get a minus. If you believe that's a made up statistic so be it. If you think measuring whether players tag up when the ball is hit to him more often then on average then sure it's a made up stat.

Saying that Austin Jackson is better because he just looks like it is just as flawed as saying numbers are flawed. It's easy for slower players or players who don't get the same jump on the ball to look better than players that get to more balls but don't do as good when they get there. Dirks was better at getting to balls in his zone (again, it's based on numbers but it's based on numbers based on actually looking at real plays).

How should the Gold Glove be awarded? Do you think that there are people that watch every game of every team and can compare 162 games with and just say that they think so and so is the best? Voters will probably give the award to Alex Gordon because he played way more innings (and has more putouts and assists and a better fielding percentage). It looks like they're starting to become more comfortable using advanced statistics though otherwise there is no way Yeonis Cespedes would've been a finalist.

 

[broncosmitty]

It doesn't matter to me if the GG is even awarded at all. (I believe I stated that on this thread already)But Dirks shouldn't be awarded one.