Giants Searching For Answers

[calsnowskier]

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Here's a thought. Get off your wallets and sign some better players.

Weren’t you complaining about how the doggies just opened their wallets to build their team last season?

 

[calsnowskier]

Far more, the Giants have a top 10 payroll and have for a long time. Your team is famous for letting all their good players walk instead of signing them.

Giants do NOT have a top 10 payroll…

 

[Cedrique]

Then why are the giants players so bad? Bad choices by management?

Which bad players are you talking about? It seems like a lot of them were part of the team that won 107 games last year. I don't know if money is the answer in this case. The difference in the lineup from last season is last year they got way above average production from catcher and shortstop, which they haven't gotten this season. But those are things that are hard to get no matter how much money you have. I guess they could have signed Correa but Crawford was coming off a career year offensively and they didn't expect him to get injured.
The main thing that you can get with money is Starting pitchers, 1B/OF/DH types.

 

[Montalban]

Weren’t you complaining about how the doggies just opened their wallets to build their team last season?

If you can't beat 'em..................

 

[Montalban]

Which bad players are you talking about? It seems like a lot of them were part of the team that won 107 games last year. I don't know if money is the answer in this case. The difference in the lineup from last season is last year they got way above average production from catcher and shortstop, which they haven't gotten this season. But those are things that are hard to get no matter how much money you have. I guess they could have signed Correa but Crawford was coming off a career year offensively and they didn't expect him to get injured.
The main thing that you can get with money is Starting pitchers, 1B/OF/DH types.

That team had Posey and Bryant and Gausman. Bad players? everyone is either below average or an average player

 

[Cedrique]

That team had Posey and Bryant and Gausman. Bad players? everyone is either below average or an average player

Yeah Posey had a great year but that was my point. It's hard to replace a good offensive catcher no matter how much money you have. Same with shortstop. Gausman was good but at least they ponied up for Carlos Rodon in the off season. The rest of the players I wouldn't call average or below average, more like role players. But it worked last year.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yeah Posey had a great year but that was my point. It's hard to replace a good offensive catcher no matter how much money you have. Same with shortstop. Gausman was good but at least they ponied up for Carlos Rodon in the off season. The rest of the players I wouldn't call average or below average, more like role players. But it worked last year.

Last year we had Posey, Craw and Belt all have career years. Then we had productive platoons at just about every position.

This year, posey is gone from retirement and Craw and Belt are both having arguably their worst career years. If your anchor players aren’t producing, it doesn’t really matter what your platoons are doing. They just can’t carry that level of responsibility.

 

[Cedrique]

Last year we had Posey, Craw and Belt all have career years. Then we had productive platoons at just about every position.

This year, posey is gone from retirement and Craw and Belt are both having arguably their worst career years. If your anchor players aren’t producing, it doesn’t really matter what your platoons are doing. They just can’t carry that level of responsibility.

Yeah I agree it's just hard to put it on ownership being cheap because catchers and shortstops that provide the offense that those guys did last year are 2 really tough positions to replace, no matter how much money you want to throw at it. Usually teams fill those positions from within and when they get someone that is good at one of those positions that can also hit they hold onto them. I guess Correa would have been the guy but a lot of teams missed out on him. I can't even think of a catcher who changed teams except for Gary Sanchez, and he ain't putting up numbers like Posey did last season.

 

[Montalban]

Yeah Posey had a great year but that was my point. It's hard to replace a good offensive catcher no matter how much money you have. Same with shortstop. Gausman was good but at least they ponied up for Carlos Rodon in the off season. The rest of the players I wouldn't call average or below average, more like role players. But it worked last year.

Yes, last year was absurd in how well everything Kapler did turned to gold. Never seen anything like it. But it was clear that the 207 win season was an aberration. And this team is much, much weaker this season. They also are in a division with the two most stacked teams in baseball

 

[Montalban]

Yeah I agree it's just hard to put it on ownership being cheap because catchers and shortstops that provide the offense that those guys did last year are 2 really tough positions to replace, no matter how much money you want to throw at it. Usually teams fill those positions from within and when they get someone that is good at one of those positions that can also hit they hold onto them. I guess Correa would have been the guy but a lot of teams missed out on him. I can't even think of a catcher who changed teams except for Gary Sanchez, and he ain't putting up numbers like Posey did last season.

With shortstops the Rangers, Dodgers and Mets did it through picking up and paying established stars but I agree, filling the catchers spot is always rough. But throwing money at a mediocre player like Belt when you could be spending it elsewhere is one of the problems

 

[calsnowskier]

With shortstops the Rangers, Dodgers and Mets did it through picking up and paying established stars but I agree, filling the catchers spot is always rough. But throwing money at a mediocre player like Belt when you could be spending it elsewhere is one of the problems

I was irate when they threw that 700k at Joey Bart. What an insane waste of money.

 

[Montalban]

I was irate when they threw that 700k at Joey Bart. What an insane waste of money.

Bart? You better learn to read. But, yeah, Bart is a joke right now. Seems like a bust but maybe not.

 

[calsnowskier]

Bart? You better learn to read. But, yeah, Bart is a joke right now. Seems like a bust but maybe not.

Misread on my part, but who should the Giants have got instead?

 

[Cedrique]

With shortstops the Rangers, Dodgers and Mets did it through picking up and paying established stars but I agree, filling the catchers spot is always rough. But throwing money at a mediocre player like Belt when you could be spending it elsewhere is one of the problems

I forgot about Seager. I guess there have been a few good shortstops lately that you could get by spending up. (although a lot of times a shortstop's best years are the ones before he hits free agency.).

Keep in mind I'm looking at this through the lens of a Phillies fan. Our ownership decided this off season (late in the offseason after some big names were gone) that they should spend some money so they signed two (more) OF/1b/DH types and now they are still struggling to stay in contention because they have inconsistent young guys in centerfield and the infield. It just seems like teams that are in a successful cycle have guys at key positions that they either drafted acquired as prospects. Then you can always pick up a starting pitcher,OF/1B/DH in free agency.

I guess we'll see what happens in the trade market the next couple days

 

[Montalban]

Misread on my part, but who should the Giants have got instead?

Anyone who can stay healthy enough to play more than half a season. But my choice would have been Freeman. He was available

 

[Montalban]

I forgot about Seager. I guess there have been a few good shortstops lately that you could get by spending up. (although a lot of times a shortstop's best years are the ones before he hits free agency.).

Keep in mind I'm looking at this through the lens of a Phillies fan. Our ownership decided this off season (late in the offseason after some big names were gone) that they should spend some money so they signed two (more) OF/1b/DH types and now they are still struggling to stay in contention because they have inconsistent young guys in centerfield and the infield. It just seems like teams that are in a successful cycle have guys at key positions that they either drafted acquired as prospects. Then you can always pick up a starting pitcher,OF/1B/DH in free agency.

I guess we'll see what happens in the trade market the next couple days

It should be interesting. I still can't figure out if the Giants will be buyers or sellers, or which one they should be. They'll probably stand pat depending on how many seasons they still have Rodon under contract. Problem for the Giants is they don't have anyone anybody wants

 

[Cedrique]

It should be interesting. I still can't figure out if the Giants will be buyers or sellers, or which one they should be. They'll probably stand pat depending on how many seasons they still have Rodon under contract. Problem for the Giants is they don't have anyone anybody wants

According to the advanced stats it looks like the Giants have been kind of unlucky so far so they may be expecting to rebound for the rest of the season. But if they were to become sellers it looks like Rodon has an opt out clause in his contract so that would be the guy who has some value for some team as a rental.

 

[calsnowskier]

Anyone who can stay healthy enough to play more than half a season. But my choice would have been Freeman. He was available

So you would have had Freeman AND Belt on the team.

 

[calsnowskier]

It should be interesting. I still can't figure out if the Giants will be buyers or sellers, or which one they should be. They'll probably stand pat depending on how many seasons they still have Rodon under contract. Problem for the Giants is they don't have anyone anybody wants

You wave your hands in the air without even knowing what you are talking about. Educate yourself before ranting. It isn’t hard to find out how many years Rodon is under contract for.

 

[Montalban]

According to the advanced stats it looks like the Giants have been kind of unlucky so far so they may be expecting to rebound for the rest of the season. But if they were to become sellers it looks like Rodon has an opt out clause in his contract so that would be the guy who has some value for some team as a rental.

Could be. What I've seen is that the Giants killing are themselves with bad defense and stupid plays. Last year, I think they were pretty good.