Giants Re-Sign Tim Lincecum

[Villain]

OK, I checked (spending way too much time on it, but I was curious to see why the totals are so far apart). Simply put, the link you provide is full of errors, faulty logic, and just bad math.

1) The link I provided (cot's) calculates total salary using the method defined in the CBA (the one used to determine a team's luxury tax and profit sharing).

Yes, but that is not the total team payroll. It does not include all of the deferred contracts.

2) My link has actual exact figures and not "estimates" (like the one for Federowicz in your link of ~500k).

So what? The differences in estimated doesn't even add up to any significant figure.

3) The link you provided is full of errors. It lists 500k for J. Baker. First, he was claimed off waivers in June of '13, so even if he was on the major league roster after that, the amount wouldn't be 500k. Second, he was immediately sent to AAA, so he didn't earn anywhere close to 500k. Similarly, Nolasco's entire salary is added into the total, although he wasn't acquired until July. That's just WRONG (the Dodgers paid about half of his $6M salary). Ditto Guerrier - he was traded in July, but the dufus adds in his full year's salary. The dude CAN do the calculations (he got it right for Harang) why is he so sloppy? There are a bunch of errors on salaries. Besides the things I called out above, he often just gets the numbers wrong.

It isn't an end-all-be-all salary. It's just loose estimates to eyeball the roster.

All the incorrect salary numbers add up to millions, but the biggest differences are due to two things :

A) incorrectly attributing deferred salary to this year's salary budget. First, MLB rules say that the salary is to be considered as part of the salary budget of the year it was earned. Even if you don't buy that, the CBA specifies that deferred money must be put into a bank account "on or before the second July 1 following the season in which it was earned". For Manny, that would have been Jul 1, 2012. So it was already paid by the team, at the latest, last year. (And the idiot got it wrong - it should have been 8,333,333.) Ditto the deferred salary for Andruw Jones - that money was in a bank account somewhere well before 2013.

Who cares if it counts to the luxury tax threshold or not? This is money that the team has to pay.

B) Adding the posting fee paid for Ryu into the salary budget. It isn't salary. It *is* an expense, but it just isn't salary. Are you going to add in the amount of insurance paid by the Dodgers to insure their players? Or the amount paid for hotel and airfare and food while on the road? Of course not. They're legitimate expenses, but they just are not salary.

Again, this is money that the team had to pay to get the players. I don't see why you don't think those amounts of money matter. Also, I don't see why you care.

---------

Your nit-picking the rough numbers in my post are glossing past the main point. It's nice to see that you know how to read between the lines.

 

[tzill]

OK, I checked (spending way too much time on it, but I was curious to see why the totals are so far apart). Simply put, the link you provide is full of errors, faulty logic, and just bad math.

1) The link I provided (cot's) calculates total salary using the method defined in the CBA (the one used to determine a team's luxury tax and profit sharing).

2) My link has actual exact figures and not "estimates" (like the one for Federowicz in your link of ~500k).

3) The link you provided is full of errors. It lists 500k for J. Baker. First, he was claimed off waivers in June of '13, so even if he was on the major league roster after that, the amount wouldn't be 500k. Second, he was immediately sent to AAA, so he didn't earn anywhere close to 500k. Similarly, Nolasco's entire salary is added into the total, although he wasn't acquired until July. That's just WRONG (the Dodgers paid about half of his $6M salary). Ditto Guerrier - he was traded in July, but the dufus adds in his full year's salary. The dude CAN do the calculations (he got it right for Harang) why is he so sloppy? There are a bunch of errors on salaries. Besides the things I called out above, he often just gets the numbers wrong.



All the incorrect salary numbers add up to millions, but the biggest differences are due to two things :

A) incorrectly attributing deferred salary to this year's salary budget. First, MLB rules say that the salary is to be considered as part of the salary budget of the year it was earned. Even if you don't buy that, the CBA specifies that deferred money must be put into a bank account "on or before the second July 1 following the season in which it was earned". For Manny, that would have been Jul 1, 2012. So it was already paid by the team, at the latest, last year. (And the idiot got it wrong - it should have been 8,333,333.) Ditto the deferred salary for Andruw Jones - that money was in a bank account somewhere well before 2013.

B) Adding the posting fee paid for Ryu into the salary budget. It isn't salary. It *is* an expense, but it just isn't salary. Are you going to add in the amount of insurance paid by the Dodgers to insure their players? Or the amount paid for hotel and airfare and food while on the road? Of course not. They're legitimate expenses, but they just are not salary.

I believe the kids call this:

 

[tzill]

Yes, but that is not the total team payroll. It does not include all of the deferred contracts.



So what? The differences in estimated doesn't even add up to any significant figure.



It isn't an end-all-be-all salary. It's just loose estimates to eyeball the roster.



Who cares if it counts to the luxury tax threshold or not? This is money that the team has to pay.



Again, this is money that the team had to pay to get the players. I don't see why you don't think those amounts of money matter. Also, I don't see why you care.

---------

Your nit-picking the rough numbers in my post are glossing past the main point. It's nice to see that you know how to read between the lines.

Does ANYONE still want to maintain that this guy isn't a troll?

 

[msgkings322]

Does ANYONE still want to maintain that this guy isn't a troll?

As I said, he's kind of troll-ish. But for me at least he hasn't crossed the line to get-the-fuck-out-of-here.

I like a little smack talk if its at least somewhat intelligent and not ridiculously abusive. Funny is also good. It's a message board, nice to get others on here so it doesn't become a total echo chamber.

YMMV.

 

[calsnowskier]

Does ANYONE still want to maintain that this guy isn't a troll?

Yesterday he was solid. Today he has acted like a beaten step-child. Give him a couple days to get his confidence back, and maybe he will be back to solid posting.

 

[dougplayer]

little timmy still a giant..

aint that sweet. I heard the marlins were looking to see him to.

giants got to do every thing they can to keep that 2nd place behind the dodgers for the next 10 years or so.

 

[sjballer03]

little timmy still a giant..

aint that sweet. I heard the marlins were looking to see him to.

giants got to do every thing they can to keep that 2nd place behind the dodgers for the next 10 years or so.

Still hurting from last year's World Series I see.

 

[SFAnthem]

little timmy still a giant..

aint that sweet. I heard the marlins were looking to see him to.

giants got to do every thing they can to keep that 2nd place behind the dodgers for the next 10 years or so.

Was it you that called the Tigers-Dodgers World Series, book it! Or some other dbag tigger fan?

Because your team couldn't close the deal..again. we are forced to have a Red Sox or Cardinal champion...

All that talent and nothing to show for it. Maybe you think the tigers losing this year was fluke, too?

 

[Villain]

Yesterday he was solid. Today he has acted like a beaten step-child. Give him a couple days to get his confidence back, and maybe he will be back to solid posting.

My main point still hasn't been responded to. Still being babies about the overall payroll.

Yeah that's me trolling.

 

[MarcoPolo]

{concerning the link to cot's}
Yes, but that is not the total team payroll. It does not include all of the deferred contracts.

I explained why "deferred contracts" are not part of the payroll. I can't believe that you didn't understand. Using very simple words, the fact that the Dodgers had to pay the money before 2013 should have sunk in.

{concerning the other link containing estimates instead of exact salary figures as cot's does}
So what? The differences in estimated doesn't even add up to any significant figure.

Just one of the many examples of why the link you provided is pure BS.

{Re: me pointing out several obvious mistakes in the figures in the other link}
It isn't an end-all-be-all salary. It's just loose estimates to eyeball the roster.

So you ADMIT that the salary figures are bogus on the link you provide? EXCELLENT!

{Re: salary does not include deferred payments}
Who cares if it counts to the luxury tax threshold or not? This is money that the team has to pay.

I really can't believe that you don't understand that money that the team had to pay (put in a bank account) before July 2012 shouldn't be added to the 2013 salary total. But maybe you really don't understand. I can't help you with that.

{Re: salary does not include posting fees}
Again, this is money that the team had to pay to get the players. I don't see why you don't think those amounts of money matter. Also, I don't see why you care.

Again, I am sorry you don't understand. Posting fees are not salary. Besides all of the other examples I gave concerning legitimate player expenses that aren't salary, try understanding this extra one. I don't know what your business experience is, but in the corporate world, money paid to a head-hunter to acquire talent is NEVER considered salary. It is an expense, yes, but it is NEVER put in the salary 'bucket'. That's also what the IRS thinks (no FICA or other salary deductions on headhunter fees). So the posting fee (which is basically paying the headhunter) just isn't salary.

Your nit-picking the rough numbers in my post are glossing past the main point. It's nice to see that you know how to read between the lines.

This I don't get. I was responding to your post which was (in totality) :

Total Dodgers payroll in 2014 was 278M.

Los Angeles Dodgers Payroll Database - Mike Scioscia's Tragic Illness

Check your sources, big guy.

I am 100% sure that I didn't mis-understand "the main point", since it was all about Dodger salary being $278M in 2013. And telling me to "check my sources" (which I did, and found out that they were right and your link was full of errors). Unless you were referring to your *previous* post, where your claim was that Dodger salary is dropping by $100M from '13 to '14 (which is also completely wrong).

You don't have to believe me about salary, let's see what ESPN.com thinks ...

Los Angeles Dodgers 2013 Player Salaries and Team Payroll - ESPN

Hey, they think that the Dodgers paid $220M in salary!

How about CBS sports? ( MLB Salaries - CBSSports.com )

Hey, they think that the Dodgers paid $216.5M in salary!

How about USA Today? ( USA Today | Sports | MLB )

Hey, they think that the Dodgers paid $216.5M in salary!

How about Yahoo sports ? ( Y! SPORTS )
Hey, they think that the Dodgers paid $214M in salary!

Now, it's obvious that all of these sources differ by a little bit, but ALL of them are much, much closer to the $216M figure that I stated than the 278M bullshit amount you tossed out. Face it, your link was full of shit, and you were 100% wrong about how much the Dodgers paid in salary this year. Be a mench, suck it up, and admit how wrong you were. Or, you can act like a winey little girl and pretend that somehow you are right and everybody else was wrong, including the professional sports sites.

 

[msgkings322]

And now Villain's ashes are just atoms. Maybe quarks.

Villain, he's right. What exactly are you trying to argue? That the Giants, not the Dodgers, are driving up salaries? Man, it's a free country, but no one is buying that nonsense.

 

[tzill]

As I said, he's kind of troll-ish. But for me at least he hasn't crossed the line to get-the-fuck-out-of-here.

I like a little smack talk if its at least somewhat intelligent and not ridiculously abusive. Funny is also good. It's a message board, nice to get others on here so it doesn't become a total echo chamber.

YMMV.

Fair enough. We'll see if he can act like a grown up. If not, I can always ignore him.

 

[tzill]

little timmy still a giant..

aint that sweet. I heard the marlins were looking to see him to.

giants got to do every thing they can to keep that 2nd place behind the dodgers for the next 10 years or so.

Dude, why don't you try and figure out how to make the WS and NOT get swept? Also, your Liedowns are so bad you can't even use their logo?

Beat it, troll.

 

[tzill]

My main point still hasn't been responded to. Still being babies about the overall payroll.

Yeah that's me trolling.

Exactly. Payroll is everything. With a salary cap your doyers would still be the 25 year embarassment they've always been.

 

[Villain]

The Dodgers ownership who increased the payroll so vastly only signed 2 starting pitchers so far.

Zack Greinke and Hyun-Jin Ryu. Which one of those guys got paid more than he deserved?

The Dodgers had the highest overrall team payroll in 2013, but that was only after you included deferred payments to players who were no longer on the roster - in terms of active organizational players, the Dodgers were lower than the Yankees. Also, the worst contracts in that roster (Beckett and Crawford) were blunders made by the Boston Red Sox. The Dodgers only took those players in the trade because it allowed them to acquire 4 MLB players without having to give up much in terms of prospects.

Still haven't addressed the main point, I see.

 

[MarcoPolo]

No, the Dodgers spent more on salary than any other team. Total. And you fail to mention the HUGE fail you made about total Dodger salary for 2013.

 

[Villain]

No, the Dodgers spent more on salary than any other team. Total. And you fail to mention the HUGE fail you made about total Dodger salary for 2013.

Well, if you only count active roster players, the Yankees spent more than the Dodgers did. Adding in the other differed players is what makes them the most expensive.


Soooooooooooooooooo.... are you going to address my point about Greinke and Ryu or am I just wasting my time?

 

[tzill]

Well, if you only count active roster players, the Yankees spent more than the Dodgers did. Adding in the other differed players is what makes them the most expensive.


Soooooooooooooooooo.... are you going to address my point about Greinke and Ryu or am I just wasting my time?

Yeah, you'll probably need that time to switch your avatar back to Kobe and the Fakkers if the Flippers tank....

 

[dougplayer]

wow. must have hit a sore spot. yesjust misse again.
at least tigers showed up for another CS.

how games did the Giants finish behind the dodgers this year.

icansee a Tigers Vs Dodgers next year in the WS

 

[dredinis21]

wow. must have hit a sore spot. yesjust misse again.
at least tigers showed up for another CS.

how games did the Giants finish behind the dodgers this year.

icansee a Tigers Vs Dodgers next year in the WS

I can't figure out what you are more pissed off at, the Giants for sweeping your Tigers or the space bar on the keyboard.