game stuff

[Darrell Green Fan]

I will simply say this... if you are in the playoffs hunt every year with an average to good QB ( Flacco, Eli Manning, and a few others fall into this category) You dramatically improve your chances of actually winning a super Bowl. Since you can not win a Super Bowl without first making the playoffs. I will give you that RG3 WAS an Elite Athlete, but elite QB.... Not by a long shot. Our Genius GM is not going to come out and say, I think he is done. especially when Im pretty sure a huge part of his job interview stemmed around the QB situation and COULD he salvage it. Tannehill has Improved every year and thus far all indications are that he will continue to do just that. Griffin has gotten worse each year and is finally trying to learn what every one else in his QB class was picking up two years ago. The Dolphins are likely to be closer to the playoffs hunt than the Skins this year, and if some how the Redskins do pull off the shocker it will be despite Griffin not because of him.

Flacco and Eli are good examples for your case. They are also the strangest pair of QBs I can think of and by far the exception to the rule. For whatever reason these guys have, at times, played like franchise QBs. And when they do their team wins. When they don't, well, they are the Bengals. The bottom line is there is overwhelming evidence that the way to be a contender year after year, and to win a Super Bowl, is through a top QB not merely a good one. One look at the SB QBs over the past 15 years, as well as the Colts turnaournd, clearly shows that the way to gold is not Ryan Tannehill.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

That depends on several factors. If RG3 show little to no improvement this season, is hurt or gives way to Cousins early in the season AND the Redskins have a similar record to this season I believe that you can consider him gone for next season. Remember - the extension is only guaranteed for injury (which I guess could keep RG3 here if he suffers a major injury).

I don't necessarily expect any of this to occur, but you cannot just assume that RG3 will be on the team in 2016 no matter what transpires. If the worst occurs the fanbase will go nuts if they retain RG3 & name him the starter for 2016. Here is hoping for the best for 2015.

Oh totally agree. But again the claim is this is the make or break year when it's really not. If he shows marginal improvement with a few big games that will probably be enough to bring him back next year. He does not need to play like 2012 for that to happen.

 

[Sharkinva]

Flacco and Eli are good examples for your case. They are also the strangest pair of QBs I can think of and by far the exception to the rule. For whatever reason these guys have, at times, played like franchise QBs. And when they do their team wins. When they don't, well, they are the Bengals. The bottom line is there is overwhelming evidence that the way to be a contender year after year, and to win a Super Bowl, is through a top QB not merely a good one. One look at the SB QBs over the past 15 years, as well as the Colts turnaournd, clearly shows that the way to gold is not Ryan Tannehill.

All that being said, name me the last top QB who

1. Couldnt read defenses
2. Had a habit of holding onto the ball to long and taking needless sacks
3. At every turn put himself above the team and the coaches


This team would be in a much better position roster and depth wise had they taken Tannehill instead of Griffin. Currently he is still trying to learn skills of a 1st-2nd year QB going into year four.

 

[reptec101]

I'd start him day 1 because the best way to learn to play QB is to actually play QB. Everyone knew he had further to grow than other traditional pocket QBs. But again it's about upside and who has the chance to be great and who will top out at "pretty good". Pretty good ain't good enough, just ask the Lions and Bengals.

I'm just tired of this short sighted call for Kirk. Sure he can move the team better. Know who else could move the team? Rex Grossman. Know what they both have in common?

Rex: 56 TD, 60 INT
Kirk: 18 TD, 19 INTs

Rex Grossman? I can spin this and say take a look at Bradys or Mannings first 14 games:

Manning- 24TD, 25 int
Brady- 18td, 12int Note: Bradys been mid teens in INTs his first 6 years. 18 I believe one year.

Listen, you throw a rookie qb or a player who gets a few game here and there and expect him to toss 20td to 3 int's your living in a pipe dream. RG3 was an anomaly whose shooting star burned out when his knee did. He plays scared football, and scared football hardly ever wins games. Those who say Kirk has had his chance STHU. RG3 has had his chance,,, not Kirk.

I'm torn,,, obviously i'm hoping RG3 will light it up and take us to a SB, but a side of me will hate to see Kirk traded if RG3 stays healthy in a 6 and 10 season. Their take because of the trade,,, RG3 made progress this year and we're looking forward to next year. Christ give me strength.

 

[reptec101]

All that being said, name me the last top QB who

1. Couldnt read defenses
2. Had a habit of holding onto the ball to long and taking needless sacks
3. At every turn put himself above the team and the coaches


This team would be in a much better position roster and depth wise had they taken Tannehill instead of Griffin. Currently he is still trying to learn skills of a 1st-2nd year QB going into year four.

Looking back now Tanny would have been a better pick... or for that matter Cousins... we'd have 3 more possible studs on our team and a QB who has progressed..... but reality is a bitch.

When RG3 lost his willingness to be a running threat we lost our dream.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

All that being said, name me the last top QB who

1. Couldnt read defenses
2. Had a habit of holding onto the ball to long and taking needless sacks
3. At every turn put himself above the team and the coaches


This team would be in a much better position roster and depth wise had they taken Tannehill instead of Griffin. Currently he is still trying to learn skills of a 1st-2nd year QB going into year four.

Oh no arguments on any of this. Again I have been defending the philosophy behind the trade, not the results. I have already admitted it looks like a huge mistake but I will continue to defend them for trying to land a great QB because that is by far the best way to have long term success.

 

[Stymietee]

Oh no arguments on any of this. Again I have been defending the philosophy behind the trade, not the results. I have already admitted it looks like a huge mistake but I will continue to defend them for trying to land a great QB because that is by far the best way to have long term success.

Disagree......The closest player (in today's game) to being great as a QB is Brady, and that's true only because of all of the rule changes favoring QB play and offenses. Imagine what the record books would look like if the same rules were in effect during football's heyday when killing the QB was the norm or jamming receivers was good play. Where are the PC complainers when it comes to destroying what once was a great game?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Oh totally agree. But again the claim is this is the make or break year when it's really not. If he shows marginal improvement with a few big games that will probably be enough to bring him back next year. He does not need to play like 2012 for that to happen.

Agree & that would make for some tough decisions overall. If RG3 shows that he is heading in the rt direction & the team improves somewhat then I would be all for him returning for another season. Just like w/ every other team you have to ask who you could bring in to make the team better & that would be a tough one.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal... there is a difference between hoping he fails and expecting him to. I actually expect us to ride with him the entire season unless he gets injured no matter how he is playing. And I maintain the belief that currently this team is in a worse position with him than they would have been without him. As for this season, if it was really about finding the best 53, the only positions that should Not have been up for grabs are LT, HB, OLB (Kerrigan in any case), WR 1 and 2 and K. Robinsons spot. Aside from that, every spot should have been open and especially QB. Now I will grant that we have also filled out the D-line to an extent. But naming him starter in February two days after saying it was an open comp.... sorry that just rings a bit fishy to me.

But no Im not hoping he fails, just tired of all the excuses for him because I expect he will actually fail and ultimately waste another season in the process.

Fair enough. However - as long as RG3 is here you might as well see what he can do w/ perhaps a better supporting cast & hopefully improved skills. Over the past offseason I am not really sure what else they could have done w/o creating other potential problems. Cousins has just as many question marks as RG3 and drafting or trading for someone else would be debatable.

Might as well ride this one out & see if either RG3 or Cousins is up to the challenge. No real sense in worrying about RG3 beginning the season as a a starter. If he fails miserably I am pretty confident that Cousins will have more than his fair share of chances. Hopefully one of them shines this season.

Filled out D-line to an extent? Ok - I believe that you are going to be more than happy w/ this area this season barring major injuries. This has been a major upgrade.

 

[skinsdad62]

Disagree......The closest player (in today's game) to being great as a QB is Brady, and that's true only because of all of the rule changes favoring QB play and offenses. Imagine what the record books would look like if the same rules were in effect during football's heyday when killing the QB was the norm or jamming receivers was good play. Where are the PC complainers when it comes to destroying what once was a great game?

i like the old style of game i dont like the rules that are stacked against the defense but the PC crowd has won that debate

i am sure that a manning , a rodgers , a brees , a big ben a rivers would have no trouble in the past era

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

It's always been about the QB guys. Go look at all the SB winning QBs. For every Trent Dilfer there are 10 guys named Staubach, Montana or Star. The rules of today have made it even more so which again is why you need a top QB today even more to be able than in the past in order to contend year after year. The evidence is very clear to see.

And to be clear that does not mean you have to have a once in a generation guy like Tom Brady. Ben Rothlisberger gives his team hope every single fall, before he arrived Bubby Brister did not.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Rex Grossman? I can spin this and say take a look at Bradys or Mannings first 14 games:

Manning- 24TD, 25 int
Brady- 18td, 12int Note: Bradys been mid teens in INTs his first 6 years. 18 I believe one year.

Listen, you throw a rookie qb or a player who gets a few game here and there and expect him to toss 20td to 3 int's your living in a pipe dream. RG3 was an anomaly whose shooting star burned out when his knee did. He plays scared football, and scared football hardly ever wins games. Those who say Kirk has had his chance STHU. RG3 has had his chance,,, not Kirk.

I'm torn,,, obviously i'm hoping RG3 will light it up and take us to a SB, but a side of me will hate to see Kirk traded if RG3 stays healthy in a 6 and 10 season. Their take because of the trade,,, RG3 made progress this year and we're looking forward to next year. Christ give me strength.

All we need to do is look at what the professionals think of Kirk Cousins. In a league so desperate for QBs even average guys get huge contracts every single team in need of a QB could have had Kirk for a 3rd, this is no secret. And every single one of them, again professionals who are paid to evaluate talent, passed. They preferred to go to war with the likes of Geno Smith or Matt Cassell rather than spend a paltry 3rd on your boy.

That's all that needs to be said.

 

[reptec101]

All we need to do is look at what the professionals think of Kirk Cousins. In a league so desperate for QBs even average guys get huge contracts every single team in need of a QB could have had Kirk for a 3rd, this is no secret. And every single one of them, again professionals who are paid to evaluate talent, passed. They preferred to go to war with the likes of Geno Smith or Matt Cassell rather than spend a paltry 3rd on your boy.

That's all that needs to be said.

He was a 4th rounder who has played in a handful of games on SHITTY Redskins teams is all Im goin to say. Perhaps SM is a genius for NOT trading him. I guess will see. Or if RG3 is mediocre just enough to keep his job I guess will see on his next team.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

He was a 4th rounder who has played in a handful of games on SHITTY Redskins teams is all Im goin to say. Perhaps SM is a genius for NOT trading him. I guess will see. Or if RG3 is mediocre just enough to keep his job I guess will see on his next team.

Like you are not rooting against Griff I am not rooting against Kirk. He is a great guy and I sure hope he wins the backup spot. He may very well be our Plan B should Griffin not work ouit, I'm just trying to manage expectations.

I thought it was totally unfair that he was benched for Colt last year and I agree he has not been given a complete shot. But that's kind of what happens when you are a 4th round pick who came in as a backup. Come to think of it how many 4th round backups get to play as much as he has in their first 3 years? Truth is his play was up and down and he failed repeatedly in crunch time. Now it's true he is young and young QBs make mistakes. But if that's true for Kirk it should be true for Robert too especially when everyone knew coming in that Kirk was more advanced as a pocket passer.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Like you are not rooting against Griff I am not rooting against Kirk. He is a great guy and I sure hope he wins the backup spot. He may very well be our Plan B should Griffin not work ouit, I'm just trying to manage expectations.

I thought it was totally unfair that he was benched for Colt last year and I agree he has not been given a complete shot. But that's kind of what happens when you are a 4th round pick who came in as a backup. Come to think of it how many 4th round backups get to play as much as he has in their first 3 years? Truth is his play was up and down and he failed repeatedly in crunch time. Now it's true he is young and young QBs make mistakes. But if that's true for Kirk it should be true for Robert too especially when everyone knew coming in that Kirk was more advanced as a pocket passer.

No that isn't what happens "when you are a 4th round pick who came in as a backup". That is what happens when you are in your 3rd season & still making devastating mistakes especially in crunch time. If Cousins simply made the occasional mistake or didn't throw enough completions it would be one thing. However - throwing pick 6's & making other similar mistakes is a sure fire method to finding the bench & eventually a path out of the NFL.

Certainly Cousins has potential & I wish him the best & will always cheer for him while he is a Redskin. However - he needs to cut down dramatically on the mistakes. Perhaps he will this season or soon thereafter. Until that time nobody is going to offer much for his services.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Oh no question Kirk blew his opportunities. But the point that other young QBs have pick problems too is valid.

 

[Breed]

I thought it was totally unfair that he was benched for Colt last year

He was 0-5 and looked to be going strong for 0-6 till Colt came in and won the Titans game. Kirk had his shot last year to land the starting job and he failed miserably. He''ll get his chance this year.

 

[skinsdad62]

It's always been about the QB guys. Go look at all the SB winning QBs. For every Trent Dilfer there are 10 guys named Staubach, Montana or Star. The rules of today have made it even more so which again is why you need a top QB today even more to be able than in the past in order to contend year after year. The evidence is very clear to see.

And to be clear that does not mean you have to have a once in a generation guy like Tom Brady. Ben Rothlisberger gives his team hope every single fall, before he arrived Bubby Brister did not.

well explain a flacco or a wilson . you dont need great qbs if you have a good tean around them is it easier ? yes but a lot of great qbs wont win superbowls either

 

[reptec101]

Ill end my bid going to battle for Cousins rest of the week but reserve the right to rip RG a new one on Friday morning if he falls short of my expectations. I know he'll start game one (RG) and I know I'll be cheering my ass off for him, I just have a bad feeling our QB savior is there inside an oyster shell and another team next year will open it up and find the pearl. Not sure why I have such a man crush on Cousins I just see, aside from his young QB mistakes, great potential within him.

To be continued....

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

well explain a flacco or a wilson . you dont need great qbs if you have a good tean around them is it easier ? yes but a lot of great qbs wont win superbowls either

I already explained Flacco. He is like Eli, a rare QB who for some reason plays great, on occasion, at the biggest moments after having sub par regular seasons. These guys are really hard to explain, by far the exception to the rule seeing as you can't name another QB who follows this pattern. When they play like franchise QBs their teams win big, when they don't they are the Kansas City Chiefs with Alex Smith.

i consider Russell Wilson to be a franchise QB and I'd kill to have him on my team. Again you don't need to be Tom Brady to be a franchise QB.