Game of Thrones

[DarthVedder]

It's not just about fulfilling expectations. We all have theories or "fan fiction" regarding the ending of this. I don't care if the ending is vastly different to whatever constructs I have in my mind, but I just don't want people acting stupidly just to further the plot and/or create artificial conflicts.

After Dany fought with the North against the dead, it's just ridiculous to mistrust her. Sure, Dany's too eager to keep fighting, but she just sacrificed a whole lot helping the north. Whatever mistrust Sansa had should have been resolved after seeing Dany fighting against the dead.

I'm not a military strategist, but I just don't want them making errors so stupid that even I in my ignorance can easily spot. For example, you just don't place your infantry in front of the trenches and you don't ride out (and into the dark against unknown forces) when you are defending a castle. The BoW could have had the same outcome because of the sheer size of the dead army, but at least show that the people in charge are competent.

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

Not to mention, why not aim those critical three shots at Drogon?

They did. Just missed him and got rhaegel.....

 

[Mofo]

It's not just about fulfilling expectations. We all have theories or "fan fiction" regarding the ending of this. I don't care if the ending is vastly different to whatever constructs I have in my mind, but I just don't want people acting stupidly just to further the plot and/or create artificial conflicts.

After Dany fought with the North against the dead, it's just ridiculous to mistrust her. Sure, Dany's too eager to keep fighting, but she just sacrificed a whole lot helping the north. Whatever mistrust Sansa had should have been resolved after seeing Dany fighting against the dead.

This is why the writing is poor, and it's artificial conflict for the sake of drama. Everyone acknowledges that at any time, Dany could have sacked King's Landing, killed Cersei and taken the Iron Throne. Instead, she chose to hear Jon Snow about the thread of the Night King's army, postponed the attack on Cersei's forces, lost a dragon and 90% of her army, and gave Cersei time to reinforce and rearm. Those actions should convince Sansa and everyone else in the North that she's a good enough person, and yet there's still distrust and scheming.

I doubt the intent was to make Sansa appear as shallow and greedy as Cersei, but that's the effect of this. Why shouldn't Daenerys be so pissed off that she contemplates blowing up King's Landing? After years of scrabbling and getting raped and attacked in Essos, she finally builds her forces up and then loses almost all of them while saving the world from the dead.

I'm not a military strategist, but I just don't want them making errors so stupid that even I in my ignorance can easily spot. For example, you just don't place your infantry in front of the trenches and you don't ride out (and into the dark against unknown forces) when you are defending a castle. The BoW could have had the same outcome because of the sheer size of the dead army, but at least show that the people in charge are competent.

The whole point of the Battle of Winterfell was to whittle Daenerys's army down to a level where it's comparable to Cersei's. It's a bit of obvious plot device, but nonetheless probably pisses off viewers who had been led to believe that the Night King was the villain of the villain. Everything done in that battle (maybe it was a rushed strategy?) therefore doesn't need to make much sense. Particularly when the way to end the whole thing is a Deus ex machina.

 

[rsw626]

It's a lot easier to adapt an existing piece of writing to a television show than writing scenes and plot anew. Part of it might be that the show is getting old and stale, but a great deal of it is that none of this plot is original to anything other than the HBO series.

Think about the differences between the Peter Jackson LOTR series and then the Peter Jackson Hobbit series that followed. LOTR was immense, and no one denies that Jackson did a great job making that universe come to life- even having to pare down some of the plot. But the Hobbit was little more than a short story and the producers and writers had to develop whole backstories, scenes and dialogue for characters that previously might have just been part of a list. So LOTR goes down as one of the best fantasy or scifi movie series of all time, while the Hobbit is, at best, an overrated and bloated piece of crap.

Still though. Coffee cups?

The Hobbit could have be one great epic movie. Instead, Jackson and the studios got greedy and made it into a trilogy with non existent characters from the book.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The Hobbit could have be one great epic movie. Instead, Jackson and the studios got greedy and made it into a trilogy with non existent characters from the book.

I have no idea how they made it a trilogy and never bothered to watch it

 

[juliansteed]

Stannis was pretty damn white.

Actually, the majority of major characters that have been killed off have been white.

Yeah that was pretty much my point.

It was sarcasm in response to someone writing an article and actually being dumb enough to suggest the killing of Missandei was sexist and racist.

 

[Inquisitor95]

The Hobbit could have be one great epic movie. Instead, Jackson and the studios got greedy and made it into a trilogy with non existent characters from the book.

Who needs to stick to source material when you can say you made up a role just for Evangeline Lilliy?

 

[BusSport]

What happened next:

 

[DarthVedder]

The whole point of the Battle of Winterfell was to whittle Daenerys's army down to a level where it's comparable to Cersei's. It's a bit of obvious plot device, but nonetheless probably pisses off viewers who had been led to believe that the Night King was the villain of the villain. Everything done in that battle (maybe it was a rushed strategy?) therefore doesn't need to make much sense. Particularly when the way to end the whole thing is a Deus ex machina.

Completely agree with the first two paragraphs.

With the last paragraph, while I agree that the point was to weaken Dany's forces, it could have happened even with smart battle plans. They could have shown us a good defensive plan that gets overwhelmed by the sheer number of wights. Even good plans fail, but at least we would feel that that the respect and love everyone has for Jon is earned and not just a point to make Dany feel jealous, insecure and isolated.

Heck, it would have been better if they had showed us that the defenses weren't complete, leaving them unprepared and just creating mayhem after the attack, like they did in the vastly superior Hardhome.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Completely agree with the first two paragraphs.

With the last paragraph, while I agree that the point was to weaken Dany's forces, it could have happened even with smart battle plans. They could have shown us a good defensive plan that gets overwhelmed by the sheer number of wights. Even good plans fail, but at least we would feel that that the respect and love everyone has for Jon is earned and not just a point to make Dany feel jealous, insecure and isolated.

Heck, it would have been better if they had showed us that the defenses weren't complete, leaving them unprepared and just creating mayhem after the attack, like they did in the vastly superior Hardhome.

Yes I'd have preferred an ambush and then the vast slaughter

 

[Sparhawk]

Completely agree with the first two paragraphs.

With the last paragraph, while I agree that the point was to weaken Dany's forces, it could have happened even with smart battle plans. They could have shown us a good defensive plan that gets overwhelmed by the sheer number of wights. Even good plans fail, but at least we would feel that that the respect and love everyone has for Jon is earned and not just a point to make Dany feel jealous, insecure and isolated.

Heck, it would have been better if they had showed us that the defenses weren't complete, leaving them unprepared and just creating mayhem after the attack, like they did in the vastly superior Hardhome.

Jon should have killed the dragon by leaping off the rock and ramming Longclaw down the dragon's throat. Then he would have had to face the WW lieutenants while the NK went after Bran. That would have given Arya the chance to slip by a tad more credibility than just having them stand around and watch her kill the NK.

 

[Edonidd]

I understand the writers have never been on a dragon, but have they never been on a ship at sea? You can see for fucking miles. I've never been hang gliding but I imagine doing that or riding a dragon would only increase the distance you can see. But they got snuck the fuck up on. Again.

This time the sneaky 20-30 boats had machine guns on them. There was like 50 balista bolts in the air at the same time from those 20 ships. I'm sorry, did I say balista bolts? I meant telephone poles. Those things that hit the ships were like 12 feet long and must have weighed several hundred pounds. The way they were going right through ships from several thousand yards away, those balista would be a danger to a US carrier group.

Especially being able to teleport and completely hide from everyone.

I'm pretty sure this show is gonna end with Jon shooting Cersei with a bolt of lightning straight from his dick. Maybe turn around and shoot her again with a fireball from his ass. I'm sorry Arse. Because it will be a cool scene, and look great, and who cares where he learned to shoot balls of fire from his arse. Its fantasy, right? I mean dragons aren't real either.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Interesting. I think you are the exception.

I concur.

Read the Hobbit after LOTR in grade 10.

Found it interesting yet juvenile.

Had no inclination to rent the movies but heard they were filmed in another speed or format so I rented.

Meh.....

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I'd definitely feel differently had I read the books. It wasn't until she went to Braavos that I started to dislike her plot line. I loved when she was with The Hound though and I'm happy to see them together again.

I read 4. But will not be going back for 5 and so on.

I'll find myself saying (like I have the other way with the HBO series), that's not what happened in the book...

 

[PatsFan2003]

I concur.

Read the Hobbit after LOTR in grade 10.

Found it interesting yet juvenile.

Yep. Basically a kid's book but still fun!

Had no inclination to rent the movies but heard they were filmed in another speed or format so I rented.

Meh.....

It's just not 3 movies.. Much too much filler. The 2nd one, The Desolation of Smaug wasn't bad.

 

[wildturkey]

Another thing I have thought about, they make a point to show Euron's face when Cersei chooses not to make a pincushion out of Tyrion. Nothing is done by accident (except the Starbucks cup), so I wonder if Euron starts to realize that Cersei doesn't have the balls to kill her brother when given the chance and may decide to skip town or leave her hanging to save his own hide.

I was thinking maybe he was putting the math together in his head that the baby wasn't his. Because from Euron's perspective, there's no way Tyrion should know.

 

[ElTexan]

There was no chain. Her wrists were bound together low...which restricts the amount of lift you get trying to raise the arms.

Try again.

 

[ElTexan]

I was thinking maybe he was putting the math together in his head that the baby wasn't his. Because from Euron's perspective, there's no way Tyrion should know.

Plausibly, Cersei’s Hand told him during their brief encounter on the grounds outside of Kings Landing

 

[Superbelt]

Try again.

That Cersei stand in....

Anyway, anyone criticizing that is looking for reason to be aggrieved all day every day.

She's a political prisoner in a brutal war. JFC.

 

[batchaps4me]

Kind of hard to do in shackles.

AND

Wrists handcuffed with a foot of loose chain between? No. Try again.

Keep in mind that she told Grey Worm that hers was a peaceful people incapable of defending themselves. They choose no violence.

It's not just about fulfilling expectations. We all have theories or "fan fiction" regarding the ending of this. I don't care if the ending is vastly different to whatever constructs I have in my mind, but I just don't want people acting stupidly just to further the plot and/or create artificial conflicts.

After Dany fought with the North against the dead, it's just ridiculous to mistrust her. Sure, Dany's too eager to keep fighting, but she just sacrificed a whole lot helping the north. Whatever mistrust Sansa had should have been resolved after seeing Dany fighting against the dead.

I'm not a military strategist, but I just don't want them making errors so stupid that even I in my ignorance can easily spot. For example, you just don't place your infantry in front of the trenches and you don't ride out (and into the dark against unknown forces) when you are defending a castle. The BoW could have had the same outcome because of the sheer size of the dead army, but at least show that the people in charge are competent.

IMHO everyone is missing the boat with the strategy and tactics of the Battle of Winterfell. Everyone bitching about the cavalry charge are forgetting that this is not a set piece battle wherein the living can prevail on the battle field. The battle is just a delaying action by the living trying to hold off the AOD long enough for the Night King to expose himself. Keeping that in mind along with the sheer numbers of the AOD, look at the pieces and tactical choices:
1. Dothraki Riders- There is not going to be an opportunity of a flanking attack so the choices are a bit limited here. do you hold them close to the castle and negate their greatest skills, a charge? Range them out as your first level of defense. Nobody in charge believes that this will be successful as far as defeating the AOD, but it starts the battle away from the castle.
2. Unsullied- set in place to protect the Dothraki retreat, if they survive, and provide the second layer of defense. The vanguard protects the retreat of the Dothraki and most of the Unsullied while the trench is lit. This gives added layers of defense … unsullied, trench then Unsullied/Dothraki again.
3. Trebuchets- Yes, you would like to see them have longer barrages as the AOD approaches but for one we do not know how much shot they were able to produce in the buildup. Building/keeping them in the castle would be counter productive … they take up too much space that can be better used for castle defense.

Keeping in mind that Jon/Dany knows that they cannot defeat the AOD in battle, and that is never disputed by anyone, their only option is to delay long enough for the NK to expose himself. Their strategy was to delay long enough to have the NK … the AOD's only weakness ... expose himself to have a chance to win the war, their tactics matched the strategy.