Game #5 Sharks v.s Blues 4:30PM

[rares]

I'm cool with that.
This was a down year for the Sharks and under-performing members could have a better year next season with a better infrastructure.
Pavelski irritated me this series but he's not beyond a second chance IMO.

So, by that same logic, which other postseason besides this one has Marleau sucked in?

(not trolling, I just honestly don't remember those two sucking this bad.. like... ever?)

 

[rares]

"I blame myself and some of the big guys who were expected to score because we didn't," said Couture, who had one goal and three assists.

But lack of offense may not have been as big a problem in the series as a penalty kill that gave up six goals in 18 attempts over the five games.

"We couldn't stop their power play," McLellan said. "Our penalty kill against their power play was the difference."

Uhh, you think?

Also, their coaching was much better than your coaching.

 

[li0lsh]

grrr...my video card fried after 10 minutes of playing open beta...had to go to Frys to buy a new one...hopefully it will work, my power supply is only 400W and this new card says it needs min 400W...

Is this a system you built? What kind of card are you running?

 

[Mr. Teal]

So, by that same logic, which other postseason besides this one has Marleau sucked in?

(not trolling, I just honestly don't remember those two sucking this bad.. like... ever?)

Most of them.
When had Marleau kicked ass in a playoff series?

I recall one series years ago where Marleau was lights out through 2 rounds and proceeded to take a massive dump in round 3.

Mostly Marleau is an epic disappointment when we need him to be great and I don't think asking him to be great in the clutch is an unreasonable expectation given his skills.

Clearly Marleau is a role player who will succeed when surrounded by players better than he. Put him on the Red wings and watch the Cups roll in, but put him in a leadership position and he'll phone it in as he has his entire tenure as a Shark.

Marleau can't do it on his own. He just doesn't have it in him to make things happen. He is a secondary contributor and frankly, any number of quasi NHL scrubs could do the same. Marleau just lacks the will which is far worse than having the will and lacking the skill.

He needs to be on the next Greyhound to anywhere outside of SJ.

 

[SJVP408]

Sharks have three 30 goal scorers and they combined for 1 goal during the series.

Game.
Set.
Match.

 

[23sharks]

So, by that same logic, which other postseason besides this one has Marleau sucked in?

(not trolling, I just honestly don't remember those two sucking this bad.. like... ever?)

If I read it right, I think Marleau has scored a goal in about 40% of the playoff games he's been in. He was also one of the top 3 playoff goal scorers in the NHL over like a 10 year span. Can't argue with those numbers. Against Chicago 2 years ago, he was just about the only guy that could score. I think he had like 4 of the 6 Sharks goals. He's had a couple bad series here and there, but he's also played well.
He was bad this series, along with a lot of other guys. I'm sure he is one of the guys the Sharks will think about moving, if possible. Funny thing is, 2 years ago everyone was fine with Marleau, and it was Joe they wanted gone.

 

[madcap9999]

If I read it right, I think Marleau has scored a goal in about 40% of the playoff games he's been in. He was also one of the top 3 playoff goal scorers in the NHL over like a 10 year span. Can't argue with those numbers. Against Chicago 2 years ago, he was just about the only guy that could score. I think he had like 4 of the 6 Sharks goals. He's had a couple bad series here and there, but he's also played well.
He was bad this series, along with a lot of other guys. I'm sure he is one of the guys the Sharks will think about moving, if possible. Funny thing is, 2 years ago everyone was fine with Marleau, and it was Joe they wanted gone.

The problem with Marleau isn't cumulative scoring in the playoffs.. it's when he scores those goals that makes him so irritating. Plus he doesn't have the killer instinct needed to get a Cup. He just doesn't. Joe may have finally found some balls but Patty's balls are AWOL and will continue to be AWOL, forever.

 

[rares]

It's just "what have you done for me lately?", definitely.

There's no doubt that this was a horrible series for Marleau but it's not like they would have gotten past St. Louis if he showed up (without the other sleepwalkers showing up also and with the PK sucking like it did) -- if you think that, "you are smoking a wrong shit".

 

[Cbrower91]

I like how people on this board are doing everything thing they can to pin this lose entirely on marleau. Nemo,Burns,Especially Pavelski and Clowe, Couture,lesser extent Havlat but having the 2 anchors Clowe and Couture on his line made it a one man show.

Demers,Braun,White were also all terrible. Vlasic was average at best. Galiardi,Winnik, and Moore, it was really a combined team effort of suck.

Thornton,Boyle and Havlat were probably the only three that had a series worth a shit

 

[rares]

... but korky, it's so much easier to just blame it all on Marleau! :p

And, if you can trade him and a couple other stiffs (that you'd trade/get rid of anyway), the team will instantly be a contender!

 

[Mr. Teal]

It takes a team to lose a game but historically as Marleau goes, the Sharks go. When he sucks, it infects the entire team.
We can't keep doing the same thing hoping for a different result.

 

[Cbrower91]

Doesnt matter finn when he has been great in playoff series the rest of the team stands around and watches him perform and doesnt chip in. Clowe is an absolute must to be traded the guy disppaears every year come playoff time, Pavelski too, he has had one good series in his entire playoff career and he goes ghost.

I've said it in previous years about teams that tend to win the cup, almost every player on the roster needs to be having career years or close to it. Not one player outside of maybe couture could say that this season.

 

[caliraftdude]

So - I just needed to walk away for a bit...

I thought they played better in this game for about 45-50 minutes then the previous 3 games down.. I thought Braun could have tied up his guy and Niemi should have managed that rebound a little better on that first goal. Despite Marleau actually showing up and throwing a few checks, hustling on the back check.. he and Braun just watch a guy scoot between them and... there goes the second goal... the rest is history.

Better effort and then a complete (cock-tease) collapse. You have to think that Hitch was drawing up some things he was seeing through the first two periods and as soon as mismanaged the puck the Blues butt-fucked us for it. Good for them.. they were the better team and staff imho.

We need some major changes.. period. Aging and declining talent on the ice - literrally ZERO happening on the farm, and nothing inspiring in this years run of platitudes.

cya next year.

 

[Destroydacre]

The thing about Marleau is he's so damn inconsistent. He can be very good in the playoffs. Here's what I remember from the top of my head. I may be off on some of these, but I think I'm remembering these pretty well:

Series Marleau did great in:
02 vs Ponicks
02 vs Colorado
04 vs St. Louis
04 vs Colorado
06 vs Nashville
07 vs Nashville
08 vs Calgary
10 vs Chicago
11 vs Vancouver

Here's the series where he did little to nothing:
04 vs Calgary
06 vs Edmonton
07 vs Detroit
08 vs Dallas
09 vs Anaheim
10 vs Colorado
10 vs Detroit
11 vs LA
11 vs Detroit
12 vs St. Louis

It's like you either get a great performance from him or you get complete shit and there's really no in between. I think that's what's most frustrating. You see glimpses of great performance. Marleau probably would go down as one of the great playoff performers of his time if he had any consistency whatsoever.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

The problem isn't just production with Marleau. It is his cost, lack of fire, and long stretches of nothingness. The dude is second highest paid on the team for years to go. Big problem. He's one of many problems though.

 

[sjrules99]

I like how people on this board are doing everything thing they can to pin this lose entirely on marleau. Nemo,Burns,Especially Pavelski and Clowe, Couture,lesser extent Havlat but having the 2 anchors Clowe and Couture on his line made it a one man show.

Demers,Braun,White were also all terrible. Vlasic was average at best. Galiardi,Winnik, and Moore, it was really a combined team effort of suck.

Thornton,Boyle and Havlat were probably the only three that had a series worth a shit

I would add burns to the "nice" list and winnik actually had a very good game 5 (not much else).

No doubt that many of the top 6 sucked. In fact, all but jumbo really. however, its a matter of expectations/skill/cap space. Clowe costs half of patty. Pavs also basically 3M less. Cooch is 23 and 1/3 the price. Its not an excuse and there is no doubt of their disappointment, but the expectations on a player like marleau are much higher, and his salary reflects that. if he was paid the same as clowe, he wouldn't be taking nearly this hit. if boyle totally and completely sucked, he'd get a whole lot more shit than if braun did.

marleau is not singularly responsible, and I think everyone knows that. The problem is that he is a $7M man who will be 33 next year and is clearly in decline. 83 pts--> 73 pts--> 64 pts. 44G-->37G-->30G. Only 39 points at even strength. he's been a minus player in 5 of the last 6 postseasons. If he had one off year, no doubt he'd be forgiven, but this is a troubling trend over many many years, and it's only likely to get worse with age. His inconsistency and lack of fire are maddening and soon the skills will decline enough to make him a $7M 2nd/3rd liner.

that's why the board, the merc, the national media, the whole NHL is critical of this guy.

p.s.: he is nothing special in postseason. he averages just .68 points per game along with a -11. his 33 goals/82 games pace is respectable, but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired and he has had just 1 playoff year where he put up even a point per game pace. For a supposed top liner and a player paid in the top 20 in the league (the #15 ranked forward), that is just not good return on investment.

 

[caliraftdude]

My problem with Marleau isn't his production, his fire, his balls, etc... its how much we pay for him. As much as I am on a "move Patty" bandwagon you have to ask who you are going to put in his place to provide his production. He and Cooch had roughly the same production the season.. yet the torches and pitchforks are not chasing Cooch - and they shouldn't. He DOES put up some numbers.. that isn't the problem to me.

What I have a problem with is he is 1/3 of the 7mil/year club - which puts him into the "you are elite talent that either makes or breaks a playoff run".. and in a lot of cases he seems to break. Boyle doesn't look like 7mil/year to me either. Nash looks like a guy who can carry a team. Towes/Kane look like those types of guys. Claude looks like that type of guy.. Patty looks like a rent-a-sniper. His worth is ONLY going to materialize if you have enough parts around him and we flat out DO NOT. Selanne is a similar guy, similar in production, maybe even more of a leader (and older..) - and is making 2-3 mil/year.

For some of the other guys: I have ALWAYS really, really liked PAV.. but his size and lack of speed in the playoffs is problematic. You either have to surround him with the right types of players or trade him and get more of those pieces. Clowe? Fuck him. If he played half as well as his interviews make you think he would we would actually have a viable power forward... I would rather have Seto - no shit. There are a lot of guys on the team who are 'favorites' to me - but now is the time to take a real hard look at these guys and what we *think* we are paying for and to start making the right choices.

 

[caliraftdude]

I would add burns to the "nice" list and winnik actually had a very good game 5 (not much else).

No doubt that many of the top 6 sucked. In fact, all but jumbo really. however, its a matter of expectations/skill/cap space. Clowe costs half of patty. Pavs also basically 3M less. Cooch is 23 and 1/3 the price. Its not an excuse and there is no doubt of their disappointment, but the expectations on a player like marleau are much higher, and his salary reflects that. if he was paid the same as clowe, he wouldn't be taking nearly this hit. if boyle totally and completely sucked, he'd get a whole lot more shit than if braun did.

marleau is not singularly responsible, and I think everyone knows that. The problem is that he is a $7M man who will be 33 next year and is clearly in decline. 83 pts--> 73 pts--> 64 pts. 44G-->37G-->30G. Only 39 points at even strength. he's been a minus player in 5 of the last 6 postseasons. If he had one off year, no doubt he'd be forgiven, but this is a troubling trend over many many years, and it's only likely to get worse with age. His inconsistency and lack of fire are maddening and soon the skills will decline enough to make him a $7M 2nd/3rd liner.

that's why the board, the merc, the national media, the whole NHL is critical of this guy.

p.s.: he is nothing special in postseason. he averages just .68 points per game along with a -11. his 33 goals/82 games pace is respectable, but the rest of his game leaves something to be desired and he has had just 1 playoff year where he put up even a point per game pace. For a supposed top liner and a player paid in the top 20 in the league (the #15 ranked forward), that is just not good return on investment.

doh - beat me to it (worded it better too...) - for that matter, I think this evaluation has to go all the way through the lineup... we are overpaying for what we are seeing on the ice in a few areas imho.

 

[bdave]

Most of them.
When had Marleau kicked ass in a playoff series?

I recall one series years ago where Marleau was lights out through 2 rounds and proceeded to take a massive dump in round 3.

Mostly Marleau is an epic disappointment when we need him to be great and I don't think asking him to be great in the clutch is an unreasonable expectation given his skills.

Clearly Marleau is a role player who will succeed when surrounded by players better than he. Put him on the Red wings and watch the Cups roll in, but put him in a leadership position and he'll phone it in as he has his entire tenure as a Shark.

Marleau can't do it on his own. He just doesn't have it in him to make things happen. He is a secondary contributor and frankly, any number of quasi NHL scrubs could do the same. Marleau just lacks the will which is far worse than having the will and lacking the skill.

He needs to be on the next Greyhound to anywhere outside of SJ.

I don't know about Marleau being better anywhere. He seems to lost his interest in Hockey all together. The dude has way to much talent/speed to suck. I think he's given up but knows he needs to keep his job. Was it like 2-3 seasons ago he was on top of the NHL in goals for most of the year? Yeah he's just given up wanting to compete is what is really seems like. That speed of his cannot go unnoticed, he just doesn't bother to turn the jets on most of the time.