Full PPR top 12

[SteelersPride]

So my extreme homerism is why he's getting drafted in the mid-late 1st round in fantasy drafts, on average? My extreme homerism is why all the Dallas beat writers are projecting 300+ carries this year?

If you think he's gonna suck, that's your thought. I think he's going to be a stud, and while he went to my college, that's not the reason I think that way. There are a myriad of reasons why people think he's going to be an amazing RB, starting with the fact that he's show to be a pretty amazing RB. Now he's on a high-powered offense with the best OL in the league and no real competition at the position on the roster. What's not to love?

there were a myriad of reasons to think kijana carter was going to be amazing as well.........100% hypothetical until proven. Period.

 

[SteelersPride]

remember montee ball , he was gonna be amazing in denver,

 

[SteelersPride]

Again, I think you might be misunderstanding me. I'm in no way saying Zeke can't or won't do anything, I love my Cowboys, I have just as high of hopes and expectations for him as you do. All I'm saying is that there is zero reason zero proven, factual reason, to rank him ahead of AP unroll we've seen him on an NFL field

THIS^^^ is exactly my point

 

[Across The Field]

remember montee ball , he was gonna be amazing in denver,

Ki-Jana Carter also was ravaged by injuries, he wasn't necessarily a bust. The guy was dealing with injuries in his first 4 seasons in the league, he couldn't stay healthy. Has nothing to do with him being a rookie.

Montee Ball? When was he supposed to be amazing as a rookie? Another massive stretch.

 

[Across The Field]

THIS^^^ is exactly my point

This isn't an unfair point, as I've already pointed out. However, given AP's gradual decline in recent years, I'm a lot happier (especially in a keeper league) to take the young kid with the best OL in the league and an amazing skillset. We'll touch on this at the end of the year and see who was right, I guess.

 

[SteelersPride]

u may be right. but I'll take proven over unproven any day...... who said anything about montee ball as a rookie. obv reference to second year. gee ok let's try Cedric benson.

 

[TREFF]

#1 That can definitely be debated, I won't argue there. However, given the glaring holes in their front 7, what does it tell you about how much they value EE?

#2 You keep saying DMC is proven, but what has he proven? That he knows how to be really mediocre? You're acting like the Cowboys love DMC and plan on using him as the 3rd down back even though there's really nothing to support that. He's not even a guarantee to be ready to play week 1, so how can they be projecting him over EE in any situation right now?

Also, look at how many rookie RBs have come into the league and instantly became the man in the backfield. Doug Martin, Alfred Morris, Eddie Lacy, Todd Gurley all came into the league and immediately became bellcows, and those are just ones in recent years. Gurley's the only one with the talent EE has, so why keep him off the field? There's just no logic in that decision making that I can tell. The Cowboys have shown that they don't mind having 1 back carry the load, so there's little reason to think they're going to have a committee.

Also, I'd like to think the Dallas beat writers may understand a bit about what football is, as well.

First, as to the Cowboys beat writers. .you'd like to think so. .but for reference, the Broncos beat reporters think Kapri Bibs could start for 75% of the teams around the league. .so beat writers are to be taken with a big grain of salt.

But what I'd really like to touch on are those names you mentioned. Of those 4, only Martin could be considered "heavily" involved in the passing game, and given the situation in TB, why the hell not right? They didn't have a quality option like DMC or anyone else at the time. Even Lacy didn't catch more than one pass in a game until after week4. Alf Morris has never developed into an asset in the passing game, and Gurley's jury is still out imho. They had to prove it first, same as Zeke will.

Btw, in reference to what has McFadden proven, come on seriously? If not for the lengthy injury history he'd be being mentioned in the same breath as AP, or at worst in the class just below AP. He's proven he's a well above average NFL RB, when healthy, in 2011 he likely could've put it in cruise control starting in week 7 and still have led the league in rushing. .but zeros from 7 on its kinda tough to swallow.

 

[Across The Field]

First, as to the Cowboys beat writers. .you'd like to think so. .but for reference, the Broncos beat reporters think Kapri Bibs could start for 75% of the teams around the league. .so beat writers are to be taken with a big grain of salt.

But what I'd really like to touch on are those names you mentioned. Of those 4, only Martin could be considered "heavily" involved in the passing game, and given the situation in TB, why the hell not right? They didn't have a quality option like DMC or anyone else at the time. Even Lacy didn't catch more than one pass in a game until after week4. Alf Morris has never developed into an asset in the passing game, and Gurley's jury is still out imho. They had to prove it first, same as Zeke will.

Btw, in reference to what has McFadden proven, come on seriously? If not for the lengthy injury history he'd be being mentioned in the same breath as AP, or at worst in the class just below AP. He's proven he's a well above average NFL RB, when healthy, in 2011 he likely could've put it in cruise control starting in week 7 and still have led the league in rushing. .but zeros from 7 on its kinda tough to swallow.

Sure, beat writers aren't the end all/be all. I hadn't heard that about Kapri Bibbs. However, that's an opinion piece. This is what I'm reading is the general consensus coming out of the organization, that he's going to be relied upon heavily.

Of those names, how many of them are as valuable on 3rd down as Zeke in terms of pass blocking? None. In college he didn't catch a ton of passes, but that was the offense he was in. He was still sure-handed when called upon. We'll see it in week 1, since it's looking like McFadden might be able to go, but he isn't even expected to be able to play in the preseason. Morris has never been a passing-game back, but my point on him and everyone else was that they still came in as rookies and were the bellcows in terms of touches. Zeke is a superior talent to them all except for Gurley, and I hate to harp on it, but one of the biggest positives about the guy is his abilities on 3rd down.

As far as DMC goes, sure he might be mentioned in the same breath as AP without the injuries, but the injuries area still there. He had a real chance last year to cement himself as a lead back and he let it go to waste with a very ho-hum season. He's a 29 year old RB with a lengthy injury history. He might get a little work early on, as I've said (I don't expect Zeke to take every snap of every game, of course), but he won't get enough work to diminish Zeke's scoring potential.

I would personally be shocked if Zeke was not top 5 in PPR scoring among RBs this season, and I see it just getting better and better.

 

[TREFF]

Sure, beat writers aren't the end all/be all. I hadn't heard that about Kapri Bibbs. However, that's an opinion piece. This is what I'm reading is the general consensus coming out of the organization, that he's going to be relied upon heavily.

Of those names, how many of them are as valuable on 3rd down as Zeke in terms of pass blocking? None. In college he didn't catch a ton of passes, but that was the offense he was in. He was still sure-handed when called upon. We'll see it in week 1, since it's looking like McFadden might be able to go, but he isn't even expected to be able to play in the preseason. Morris has never been a passing-game back, but my point on him and everyone else was that they still came in as rookies and were the bellcows in terms of touches. Zeke is a superior talent to them all except for Gurley, and I hate to harp on it, but one of the biggest positives about the guy is his abilities on 3rd down.

As far as DMC goes, sure he might be mentioned in the same breath as AP without the injuries, but the injuries area still there. He had a real chance last year to cement himself as a lead back and he let it go to waste with a very ho-hum season. He's a 29 year old RB with a lengthy injury history. He might get a little work early on, as I've said (I don't expect Zeke to take every snap of every game, of course), but he won't get enough work to diminish Zeke's scoring potential.

I would personally be shocked if Zeke was not top 5 in PPR scoring among RBs this season, and I see it just getting better and better.

A 1000 yard season basically starting in week 6 isn't ho hum. .pretty darned impressive. Not all world, but pretry impressive.

But the point was, yes those guys were inserted as the workhorse, the bellcow, from week 1, and they still weren't involved in the passing game until they'd proven themselves. Zeke will also be the workhorse, and he'll also have to prove himself before he's involved in the passing game. .and when this whole discussion started in reference to a PPR, someone who still has to prove themselves as an asset in the passing game cannot be given a free pass into the first round over someone who has, just last year, been the #2 PPR RB.

 

[Across The Field]

A 1000 yard season basically starting in week 6 isn't ho hum. .pretty darned impressive. Not all world, but pretry impressive.

But the point was, yes those guys were inserted as the workhorse, the bellcow, from week 1, and they still weren't involved in the passing game until they'd proven themselves. Zeke will also be the workhorse, and he'll also have to prove himself before he's involved in the passing game. .and when this whole discussion started in reference to a PPR, someone who still has to prove themselves as an asset in the passing game cannot be given a free pass into the first round over someone who has, just last year, been the #2 PPR RB.

Fair enough. I think his rookie year will resemble Martin's more closely in terms of the passing game. I mean, what are the odds McFadden makes it through without getting hurt again? He broke his damn elbow trying to catch an iPhone, the guy is made of glass.

 

[TREFF]

And identifying and picking up the blitzing linebacker from Wisconsin, who is currently a stock boy at Albertsons becuase he couldn't get into the NFL nor find a job with his unfinished turf management degree, is completely different than identifying and picking up Brian Orakpo as the free man on an end tackle twist zone dog. .so this whole, best blocking back stuff is suspect as well

 

[TREFF]

Fair enough. I think his rookie year will resemble Martin's more closely in terms of the passing game. I mean, what are the odds McFadden makes it through without getting hurt again? He broke his damn elbow trying to catch an iPhone, the guy is made of glass.

Now see, there's an inarguable fact. .lol

Shocked the hell outta me he made through last season

 

[SteelersPride]

so a guy who hasn't pass blocked in the nfl yet. Is a pass blocking asset??

 

[tlance]

so a guy who hasn't pass blocked in the nfl yet. Is a pass blocking asset??

He needs to prove it, sure, but blocking is a projectable skill. Somebody who had it in college is more likely to pick it up quickly in the NFL. That is fact.

Again though, the original argument wasn't so much about who is going to be better, more that it isn't completely insane to rank Elliott higher. I think AP is a lot safer than Elliott, but he isn't safe. I also think Elliott's ceiling is considerably higher, it is more likely than not that he gets every opportunity to succeed. Behind the Dallas line, he probably will.

I understand the case for AP, but I am not crazy and I do have Elliott higher at the moment. In standard I have Elliott 5 and AP 7 (overall). And yes, I would rather jump off a year early than a year late.

 

[TREFF]

He needs to prove it, sure, but blocking is a projectable skill. Somebody who had it in college is more likely to pick it up quickly in the NFL. That is fact.

Again though, the original argument wasn't so much about who is going to be better, more that it isn't completely insane to rank Elliott higher. I think AP is a lot safer than Elliott, but he isn't safe. I also think Elliott's ceiling is considerably higher, it is more likely than not that he gets every opportunity to succeed. Behind the Dallas line, he probably will.

I understand the case for AP, but I am not crazy and I do have Elliott higher at the moment. In standard I have Elliott 5 and AP 7 (overall). And yes, I would rather jump off a year early than a year late.

Isn't your fantasy assembly ranking with AP higher than Zeke, standard? Or am I mistaken and that's a different Tommy?

 

[tlance]

Isn't your fantasy assembly ranking with AP higher than Zeke, standard? Or am I mistaken and that's a different Tommy?

Yes it was, 1 month ago when we made RB ranks.

I have Elliott ascending and AP Fallon a bit. He will be RB4 on the top 150 overall, with all 4 of the top RBs almost interchangeable.

My logic is this:

All RBs are pretty darn risky this year. If I want safe in the first round, I am drafting WR. If I want a riskier pick, I will go RB, but I am taking upside over safety there.

 

[TKOSpikes]

PPR, Julio is a monster! But safe? Off the top of my head, but what does he have, three complete seasons? I just find it funny that he gets a pass. I don't argue because it's 120 catches and 1800 yards if he's healthy. But Hopkins and Robinson? I just don't see it. I see both of them topping out at 1400, but a safe projection is probably 1300. TD? Double digit back to back? Tough to do.

What is safe? Jordy Nelson in August last year could have been considered one of the safest picks.

People are making a lot of a potential Peterson fall off due to age. If I watched him and saw an old man, I'd agree, but I don't see an old man. I see the Vikings best player. I see 300+ touches and double digit TD, because that's all I've ever seen.

As Treff mentioned, AP hasn't had to deal with tweaked this or strained that. It's all or nothing. That's what I like... and if it's nothing, I think McKinnon is a fine cuff. I call that safe.

I'm gonna stop now before I jinx the poor man.

I'll end with, no wrong way to start your draft....... and you definitely have to follow your gut over a list on someone else's computer.

 

[Across The Field]

Now see, there's an inarguable fact. .lol

Shocked the hell outta me he made through last season

Yeah no kidding. Yet another testament to that frickin OL.

 

[averagejoe]

Yet another testament to that frickin OL.

The same O-line that let Romo break his collarbone twice? Hmmm.
Wait for it: run blocking is different from pass-blocking.

EE to me is drawing similar hype to Reggie Bush back in 2006.

Per ESPN, Bush was ranked 18th in preseason in a very run-dominated league.
This is what "the huddle" had to say about Bush back in 2006:

Bush is one of the hottest prospects to come out of college for years and is electrifying in the open field with his 4.35/40 speed and ability to cut sharply at angles and then out run the defenders who cannot adjust. An accomplished pass receiver, Bush brings a very enticing set of skills to the Saints that can be exploited in many ways. His college career proved he is one of those rare "score on any play, from anywhere" types of running backs.

After Bush
In 2006 the Saints had the #1 offense. (#1 in passing, #19 in rushing).
Reggie himself finished 17th among RB in fantasy scoring. 57th overall.
Not bad.
But again, there was a learning curve as he shared carries with Deuce McAllister.

 

[tlance]

The same O-line that let Romo break his collarbone twice? Hmmm.
Wait for it: run blocking is different from pass-blocking.

EE to me is drawing similar hype to Reggie Bush back in 2006.

Per ESPN, Bush was ranked 18th in preseason in a very run-dominated league.
This is what "the huddle" had to say about Bush back in 2006:


After Bush
In 2006 the Saints had the #1 offense. (#1 in passing, #19 in rushing).
Reggie himself finished 17th among RB in fantasy scoring. 57th overall.
Not bad.
But again, there was a learning curve as he shared carries with Deuce McAllister.

I am not sure this analogy is the right one. Bush was not a bellcow at USC, he was a playmaker in space. It was unreasonable to expect he would be a bell cow his rookie year in the NFL. Those who ranked him highly expected he would get enough touches in space to accumulate yards and TDs.

Also, 18th rank would have been about RB15 back then. Not the same as Zeke.