FOX is talking about Belichek being the best in history

[gohusk]

So to sum up the current discussion.


If we are talking about all time greatest coaches, when it comes to BB it's all because of Brady.

If we are talking about all time greatest QB's when it comes to Brady it's all because of BB and his "system".

Amirite?

When the hell did I ever say that? Who do you think runs the Pats offense? BB? BB's a defensive guy and the Pats had a stout defense early in Brady's run. Last decade is all Brady. His defense with the Giants was ridiculous. I wouldn't call him an innovator like Walsh or Lombardi though. Lombardi was the first guy that was hell bent to have his team conditioned. Walsh revolutionized NFL offenses. What has BB revolutionized? I'm not saying he isn't some all time coach but I don't see this recent run being him. Brady's a top 10 player of all time and top 2 QB's as far as I'm concerned with Montana being the other and he's calling his own shots on offense. I'd probably take Gibbs over him as well based on the fact that he took 3 very different teams roster-wise to Super Bowl wins.

Is he great? Yes. Best ever? I'm not buying it.

 

[GNG]

All the great coaches have one thing in common - Great QB's.

 

[GNG]

I hate the Pats, but Belichick is one of the best if not the best coach in the NFL so far.

Right now I'd rate him the best among active coaches.

 

[GNG]

If we are talking about all time greatest QB's when it comes to Brady it's all because of BB and his "system".

Belichick didn't become a great coach until he had Tom Brady as his starting QB.

 

[NEPatsfan]

When the hell did I ever say that? Who do you think runs the Pats offense? BB? BB's a defensive guy and the Pats had a stout defense early in Brady's run. Last decade is all Brady. His defense with the Giants was ridiculous. I wouldn't call him an innovator like Walsh or Lombardi though. Lombardi was the first guy that was hell bent to have his team conditioned. Walsh revolutionized NFL offenses. What has BB revolutionized? I'm not saying he isn't some all time coach but I don't see this recent run being him. Brady's a top 10 player of all time and top 2 QB's as far as I'm concerned with Montana being the other and he's calling his own shots on offense. I'd probably take Gibbs over him as well based on the fact that he took 3 very different teams roster-wise to Super Bowl wins.

Is he great? Yes. Best ever? I'm not buying it.

FYI Walsh wasn't an innovator if you are referring to the WCO.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Belichick didn't become a great coach until he had Tom Brady as his starting QB.

He was already a great coach. What are you talking about?

Did you mean head coach?

 

[gohusk]

FYI Walsh wasn't an innovator if you are refering to the WCO.

Now that's just silly. You're saying he didn't take the WCO to the NFL like nobody ever did before or since?

 

[NEPatsfan]

Now that's just silly. You're saying he didn't take the WCO to the NFL like nobody ever did before or since?

Oh so now it's how he took it to the NFL?


I thought he was an innovator?

There is no type of offense that hasn't already been tried, only variations of it.

So using your logic BB is an innovator for the way he took it to the NFL.

 

[GNG]

He was already a great coach. What are you talking about?

Did you mean head coach?

I meant head coach and you know I did.

 

[gohusk]

Oh so now it's how he took it to the NFL?


I thought he was an innovator?

There is no type of offense that hasn't already been tried, only variations of it.

So using your logic BB is an innovator for the way he took it to the NFL.

Wow. I won't go into your logical flaws. Teams didn't run offenses like Walsh did before Walsh. You know why everyone talks about passer rating these days instead of counting stats? Because of Montana and Walsh. It used to be all about total passing yards before them. They actually started focusing on that stat because they needed a number justifying that Montana was the best in the league.

You really don't have any arguments for though. You just have arguments against to shoot down other peoples choices.

 

[NEPatsfan]

I meant head coach and you know I did.

Like I said, if it's a discussion about best coach BB doesn't qualify because he has Brady. (And as we know Walsh only had scrubs at QB.) And if it's a discussion about best QB, Brady doesn't qualify because it's due to BB's system.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Wow. I won't go into your logical flaws. Teams didn't run offenses like Walsh did before Walsh. You know why everyone talks about passer rating these days instead of counting stats? Because of Montana and Walsh. It used to be all about total passing yards before them. They actually started focusing on that stat because they needed a number justifying that Montana was the best in the league.

You really don't have any arguments for though. You just have arguments against to shoot down other peoples choices.

Before you embarrass yourself further I feel like I should clue you in a bit.

The west coast offensed is credited to Paul Brown. It was mistakenly credited to Bill Walsh by a reporter, and further all Bill was running was a version of Don Corell's offense. He wasn't an innovator.

Bill Belichick is on record as saying it shouldn't be called the west coast offense but the Ohio River Offense.

You might want to read up on it a bit. One could even argue that it was a variation of the original T formations which even predate Paul Brown.

There is nothing innovative in the NFL, just systems coming and going throughout time.

 

[Rex Racer]

There is more money in today's NFL. Back in those days teams struggled to turn a profit.

That has nothing to do with the fact that teams had total control of the players until they (the team) decided they no longer wanted their services or the player retired.

The lack of a salary cap allowed the teams to pay as many superstar players as their bottom line could handle.

It's quite different now.

 

[Rex Racer]

When the hell did I ever say that? Who do you think runs the Pats offense? BB? BB's a defensive guy and the Pats had a stout defense early in Brady's run. Last decade is all Brady. His defense with the Giants was ridiculous. I wouldn't call him an innovator like Walsh or Lombardi though. Lombardi was the first guy that was hell bent to have his team conditioned. Walsh revolutionized NFL offenses. What has BB revolutionized? I'm not saying he isn't some all time coach but I don't see this recent run being him. Brady's a top 10 player of all time and top 2 QB's as far as I'm concerned with Montana being the other and he's calling his own shots on offense. I'd probably take Gibbs over him as well based on the fact that he took 3 very different teams roster-wise to Super Bowl wins.

Is he great? Yes. Best ever? I'm not buying it.

You should probably stop pretending you know much about this subject. If you don't think BB has his hands on everything you're wrong.

He let's his DC and OC call the plays for sure, but to claim that he is not involved in the O is foolish.

 

[GNG]

Like I said, if it's a discussion about best coach BB doesn't qualify because he has Brady. (And as we know Walsh only had scrubs at QB.) And if it's a discussion about best QB, Brady doesn't qualify because it's due to BB's system.

I don't believe a system determines a great QB.

 

[gohusk]

Before you embarrass yourself further I feel like I should clue you in a bit.

The west coast offensed is credited to Paul Brown. It was mistakenly credited to Bill Walsh by a reporter, and further all Bill was running was a version of Don Corell's offense. He wasn't an innovator.

Bill Belichick is on record as saying it shouldn't be called the west coast offense but the Ohio River Offense.

You might want to read up on it a bit. One could even argue that it was a variation of the original T formations which even predate Paul Brown.

There is nothing innovative in the NFL, just systems coming and going throughout time.

Read up on it? I watched it happen when I grew up. Who had the success that Walsh did with that offense before Walsh hit the scene? He build the team of the 80's around that offense. You don't think that some major tweaks to the fundamentals to adjust to his roster which basically turned over twice besides Montana and Lott? And let's talk about scripting the first drive of the game, getting Montana ready with audibles and fake audibles, clock management, ...

You're the one embarrassing yourself. If you want to play that logic then Brady is definitely a system QB who hasn't run any offense that another QB hasn't run before. Gee, that was easy!

 

[NEPatsfan]

You should probably stop pretending you know much about this subject. If you don't think BB has his hands on everything you're wrong.

He let's his DC and OC call the plays for sure, but to claim that he is not involved in the O is foolish.

Heck if they just watched a handful of the documentaries over the years that include sideline audio, he is caught telling them what he wants to do on offense.

 

[GNG]

That has nothing to do with the fact that teams had total control of the players until they (the team) decided they no longer wanted their services or the player retired.

The lack of a salary cap allowed the teams to pay as many superstar players as their bottom line could handle.

It's quite different now.

Sure its a different game in that respect but that doesn't diminish what those great teams of yesteryear accomplished. Quit trying to compare apples to oranges.

 

[NEPatsfan]

Read up on it? I watched it happen when I grew up. Who had the success that Walsh did with that offense before Walsh hit the scene? He build the team of the 80's around that offense. You don't think that some major tweaks to the fundamentals to adjust to his roster which basically turned over twice besides Montana and Lott? And let's talk about scripting the first drive of the game, getting Montana ready with audibles and fake audibles, clock management, ...

You're the one embarrassing yourself. If you want to play that logic then Brady is definitely a system QB who hasn't run any offense that another QB hasn't run before. Gee, that was easy!

Paul Brown, Sid Gillman and Don "Air" Coreyll.

No one said Walsh wasn't a good coach, he is just being given credit for stuff he didn't invent.


Oh and by the way, where did Walsh learn the WCO? Paul Brown while working for him.

 

[gohusk]

Paul Brown, Sid Gillman and Don "Air" Coreyll.

No on said Walsh wasn't a good coach, he is just being given credit for stuff he didn't invent.

He's not being given credit for stuff he didn't event. When did I say he invented any of that. He did adjust it. He's the first guy that was able to have ridiculous success with a ball control throwing offense. You think this was some paint by number thing?