Four QB's in the top 10?

[Sharkinva]

If by very good you mean capable of winning a Super Bowl and you think Gruden is the right coach. Giving up a little more shouldn't be a deal killer for you. That's like saying QB X is good enough to win a Super Bowl, but you're only gonna draft him if he doesn't cost you an extra pick in the draft. Surely an extra pick is worth trading away for a QB capable of competing for a Super Bowl.

Let me put it this way.... I don't think Brady, Rogers, Wentz or CHRIST all mighty could win if we continue to put a shit show of a defense on the field. So a trade up, even for what should be an elite QB prospect will likely fail.

Gruden could be the coach, either of them could be the QB. But I think if we drafted one of them (even without a trade up) Bruce and Dan will go back into winning off the field mode. We really do need one more year out of Cousins, throw that #13 at the defensive front seven.

 

[ehb5]

True. All offense in a sense is timing. Can either one (Jackson or Allen) go to their 2nd read if the 1st read isn't there. Their 3rd read if the 2nd read isn't there etc.

FWIW Jackson does this on tape.

 

[ehb5]

This is what we know about Lamar Jackson and these facts are indisputable.

Approximately 6’3” 210 pounds...officially wont know until the combine.
He is extremely fast, approximately 4.4 speed.
He is extremely quick and illusive.
He has a big arm with accuracy issues.

Approximately 30% of the offense he supplies directly comes from his legs. His legs are a huge part of his game.


Now for a little conjecture. Considering 30% of his game comes from his legs directly, I would propose that close to 65% of his game is a result of his legs and I may be low balling it. If you make him a statue, I bet he sucks far worse than you can possibly imagine.

He might even be as bad as Allen like that

 

[ehb5]

look at there games . , but i dont think allen fits us either

I did

 

[ehb5]

Its easier to teach some one the right way to do things, than unteach them the wrong way.

Jackson game is based about 50% of the time on his ability to run. His instincts will be to run around if the play breaks down. Not because he has to, but because it has worked for him rather well up to this point. Bringing him to Washington means seriously altering our offense to fit what he will be comfortable with. Hoping he can manage to do what MOST of the running QBs have not done while we hope he can be turned into a more traditional QB.

The flip side is alter the offense, keep it that way and hope that he can manage to stay healthy while also accepting that the best dual threat QB in the league at the moment still only completes around 60% of his passes and only manages to remain healthy because he is built like a tank.

His passing game isnt based 50% on running. And thats what matters. His instincts are on display already on tape. Sometimes he runs but he also looks downfield, scans the field and moves around the pocket. You could play him in our offense and tinker with minor things and likely be fine. And you should be tinkering with things no matter who the QB is. If Gruden isnt going to do that then he isnt the coach we think he is.

 

[ehb5]

As an FSU fan, I watch a lot of ACC football. I don't read the stats to form my opinion, I actually watch the games. As talented of an athlete LJ is, he is not a very accurate passer. In his 3 years at Louisville, LJ's had NFL talent to throw the ball to...Allen has not.

Ehh. Hes throwing to better athletes than Allen is but they dropped way more passes than Allen's receivers did. And compared to the talent they were playing against Id bet the supporting cast for Jackson wasnt better at all. He carried that offense and team.

 

[gkekoa]

If by very good you mean capable of winning a Super Bowl and you think Gruden is the right coach. Giving up a little more shouldn't be a deal killer for you. That's like saying QB X is good enough to win a Super Bowl, but you're only gonna draft him if he doesn't cost you an extra pick in the draft. Surely an extra pick is worth trading away for a QB capable of competing for a Super Bowl.

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were good enough to win a SB. You don’t need to give up the farm to get a QB capable of winning a SB. As a matter of fact, I would say it is far better to get as many high picks as you can to build on.

 

[gkekoa]

If Peyton Manning was throwing to HS kids while college scholarship backs were covering them, Peyton would look awful.

 

[Stymietee]

Being a quality passer is not necessarily the key. Griffin was a quality passer. He failed to develop any type of pocket presence and his route progression was for shit.

After reading every post here, I'm pretty amazed at the offensive mindedness of our posters when it comes to QB'ing. Strong arms and improving accuracy issues are important, but I submit, that the biggest growth for QB's comes when learning what not to do. Kirk Cousins is a great example of this and should be a lesson to us all in that respect.

As long as we are able to get a QB who learns to minimize mistakes, we'll be just fine. That learning curve will be the key to going forward without Kirk and/or whether there will be any sort of team delay in growth (step-back) while he learns.

 

[Breed]

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were good enough to win a SB. You don’t need to give up the farm to get a QB capable of winning a SB. As a matter of fact, I would say it is far better to get as many high picks as you can to build on.

I thought we'd leave QBs with top notch defenses and average to above running games out of the equation this time around. The only necessary trait either Johnson or Dilfer had to develop to lead teams to a Super Bowl was the "Don't fuck it up." trait. In the 02 playoffs Johnson threw for 250+ yards, 259 yards against Minnesota, just once. He threw for better than 60%, 60.6%, against Minn, just once. He threw for 5 TDs/3 INTs. Dilfer didn't even tthrow for 200 yards in a playoff game in 2000. And only completed 60%, 64.3% on 9/14 passing against Denver just once and was under 50% for the entire playoffs. He only threw 1 INT, but just 3 TDs. Ravens brass thought so much of Dilfer he was released by the Ravens before the 2000 season.

 

[Breed]

After reading every post here, I'm pretty amazed at the offensive mindedness of our posters when it comes to QB'ing. Strong arms and improving accuracy issues are important, but I submit, that the biggest growth for QB's comes when learning what not to do. Kirk Cousins is a great example of this and should be a lesson to us all in that respect.

As long as we are able to get a QB who learns to minimize mistakes, we'll be just fine. That learning curve will be the key to going forward without Kirk and/or whether there will be any sort of team delay in growth (step-back) while he learns.

A QB who maximizes opportunities would be nice also. If you can get a QB who possesses both traits and put a decent team around him. You have a chance.

 

[Stymietee]

A QB who maximizes opportunities would be nice also. If you can get a QB who possesses both traits and put a decent team around him. You have a chance.

Exactly, and one sure way to increase those opportunities is by eliminating or minimizing mistakes.

 

[gkekoa]

I thought we'd leave QBs with top notch defenses and average to above running games out of the equation this time around. The only necessary trait either Johnson or Dilfer had to develop to lead teams to a Super Bowl was the "Don't fuck it up." trait. In the 02 playoffs Johnson threw for 250+ yards, 259 yards against Minnesota, just once. He threw for better than 60%, 60.6%, against Minn, just once. He threw for 5 TDs/3 INTs. Dilfer didn't even tthrow for 200 yards in a playoff game in 2000. And only completed 60%, 64.3% on 9/14 passing against Denver just once and was under 50% for the entire playoffs. He only threw 1 INT, but just 3 TDs. Ravens brass thought so much of Dilfer he was released by the Ravens before the 2000 season.

My point remains. Build a team and every QB is good enough to win a SB.

 

[SteelersPride]

WalterFootball.com: 2018 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Josh Allen

 

[Breed]

My point remains. Build a team and every QB is good enough to win a SB.

Sure. So the question is. What type of QB will the Skins get if Cuz signs with another team. One that needs a world class defense, a good defense, better than average D, average D, below average or the shit-stain D we presently have.

 

[Breed]

WalterFootball.com: 2018 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Josh Allen

Those strengths look as impressive as those weaknesses look bad.

 

[gkekoa]

Sure. So the question is. What type of QB will the Skins get if Cuz signs with another team. One that needs a world class defense, a good defense, better than average D, average D, below average or the shit-stain D we presently have.

I expect us to trade up for a QB in this draft. Should we? Hell no.

As for the defense, there isn’t a QB in the history of the league that could have won a SB with the injuries we had this season. It is impossible to say which defense for which QB.

What should we do if KC leaves in FA? Not panic is the best answer. You look at available FAs that fit the system. You consider the draft. It is likely the QB that fits our system and warrants the pick won’t be there in round 1, so you take BPA which is hopefully Daron Payne, or maybe Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson are there and we realize they don’t fit and can trade back for a first this year and an extra first in 2019. Then you look to round 2 where Mason Rudolph will sit but I don’t think he warrants that pick, so you take BPA such as Sony Michel. Round 3 rolls around and you see Luke Falk sitting there realizing he fits the system like a glove and warrants the pick so you snatch him.

Then you let camp play out. If Falk shines well above McCoy, then you start him, but you do not go into camp even thinking about year 1 under Falk.

 

[Skins2021]

I expect us to trade up for a QB in this draft. Should we? Hell no.

As for the defense, there isn’t a QB in the history of the league that could have won a SB with the injuries we had this season. It is impossible to say which defense for which QB.

What should we do if KC leaves in FA? Not panic is the best answer. You look at available FAs that fit the system. You consider the draft. It is likely the QB that fits our system and warrants the pick won’t be there in round 1, so you take BPA which is hopefully Daron Payne, or maybe Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson are there and we realize they don’t fit and can trade back for a first this year and an extra first in 2019. Then you look to round 2 where Mason Rudolph will sit but I don’t think he warrants that pick, so you take BPA such as Sony Michel. Round 3 rolls around and you see Luke Falk sitting there realizing he fits the system like a glove and warrants the pick so you snatch him.

Then you let camp play out. If Falk shines well above McCoy, then you start him, but you do not go into camp even thinking about year 1 under Falk.

I like Falk but I would not be the least bit surprised to see him sneak into late 1st round early 2nd. I think a 3rd is a WalterFootball created pipe dream

 

[Stymietee]

Sure. So the question is. What type of QB will the Skins get if Cuz signs with another team. One that needs a world class defense, a good defense, better than average D, average D, below average or the shit-stain D we presently have.

OK,
1. Give me a world class defense and lil' Richard at QB, then I'll threaten to or win a SB.
2. Give me a good Defense and a game manager, then I'll either threaten to or win a SB.
3. Give me a better than average defense which to me is the same as a good one, then same result.
4. Give me a below average defense and a QB better suited for this offense, then I give you annual 9-7, 10-6.
5. Give me a below average defense and Cousins, then we get, 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 type seasons.
6. Give me a "shit stain" defense and anybody including Kirk, and we're looking at 8-8, 7-9, 6-10 outcomes which I believe we are presently.

 

[Breed]

OK,
1. Give me a world class defense and lil' Richard at QB, then I'll threaten to or win a SB.
2. Give me a good Defense and a game manager, then I'll either threaten to or win a SB.
3. Give me a better than average defense which to me is the same as a good one, then same result.
4. Give me a below average defense and a QB better suited for this offense, then I give you annual 9-7, 10-6.
5. Give me a below average defense and Cousins, then we get, 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9 type seasons.
6. Give me a "shit stain" defense and anybody including Kirk, and we're looking at 8-8, 7-9, 6-10 outcomes which I believe we are presently.

Lil' Richard eh. I'd like to see that.