Expectations for Trevor Siemian

[WiFiTy]

He got to learn under one of the greats for a year!

 

[cdumler7]

He got to learn under one of the greats for a year!

That is an underrated aspect of all this. Just getting to see how Manning conducts himself on a day to day basis to prepare for the game would be invaluable to any QB. And we see that intelligence in Siemian. I don't see him making a lot of the same mistakes twice and we see that quick get it out of your hands and let your playmakers go make play style of play.

Right now though as a fan I am just giddy at the fact that we might have 2 quality QB's on this roster. I mean Siemian right now is playing like a top-12 QB in this league and Lynch in his short debut is not that far behind. I was just hoping for average play from the QB position and right now we are getting even more.

 

[cdumler7]

There are 80 QB's in the NFL right now making more than Trevor Siemian. So not only 3rd string type money but bottom tier 3rd string money in the NFL for this kid and yet playing like a possible top-10 QB at this point.

 

[WalkerBoh]

That is an underrated aspect of all this. Just getting to see how Manning conducts himself on a day to day basis to prepare for the game would be invaluable to any QB. And we see that intelligence in Siemian. I don't see him making a lot of the same mistakes twice and we see that quick get it out of your hands and let your playmakers go make play style of play.

Right now though as a fan I am just giddy at the fact that we might have 2 quality QB's on this roster. I mean Siemian right now is playing like a top-12 QB in this league and Lynch in his short debut is not that far behind. I was just hoping for average play from the QB position and right now we are getting even more.

And apparently not much of Manning's teachings sunk in with Osweiler.

 

[cdumler7]

And apparently not much of Manning's teachings sunk in with Osweiler.

The problem for Osweiler is he just isn't that style of QB. He is not the sit in the shot gun, stay in the pocket, read the defense, make your decision pre-snap, and then get it out of your hands. He wants to be that but he just isn't. Sometimes the best thing a QB can do is realize their limitations and play within themselves. I look at Manning. He never had a strong arm even before all his neck issues. So he knew he was not going to rocket one in to a small window and just didn't attempt those passes. He was more about timing and reading the defense than he was about actual arm talent. Tom Brady is not a great deep ball passer. But he is down right impressive in everything 15 yards and shorter. So while he doesn't shy away from attempting the deep pass every once in a while to keep the defense honest he stays within himself. So again knowing you have limitations is not admitting defeat but it is just being very honest in your self evaluation and then playing to what you are good at.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Here is some of my own Paxton Lynch analysis (i'm no professional, but I would definitely say I have a better understanding than most). If you don't like the nitty gritty football talk, just watch the video and enjoy watching an immensely talented young bronco

What I see from Lynch: Still not comfortable under center. GK did a great job changing his playcalling once Lynch game in, implementing much more shotgun/spread like formations. That is not the GK West Coast ZBS we all know in love in Denver. Makes me think Lynch either a) Doesn't know the playbook well enough yet or b) the coaches have seen he doesn't yet have the proper footwork to be doing under center drops (since he literally only took them in goal line formation at memphis).

Also one thing that is apparent when going from Siemian to Lynch is the release. While Siemian has a very tight short compact release, Lynch's is much longer and elongated and takes more time. While Lynch is a much bigger individual (with 34 1/4th inch arm length, some of the longer arms in this last draft class among QBs), he will really need to continue to work on making that throwing motion more compact in order to help the oline out and help deliver the short to intermediate timing throws that make GK's passing offense flow.

That said it is hard not to fall in love with the tools. Dude is obviously a gifted athlete, which he showed multiple times during his short stint on sunday evading rushers. Can't wait to see him get into open field at some point because he looks like he will cover A LOT of ground quickly (long strider). He also possess upper echelon arm strength. Some of the zip he had on the intermediate throws made me do a double take. Furthermore, the game didn't seem to big for him. He came in and wasn't afraid to throw, improvise, and move around the pocket, all while keeping his eyes down field.

I still believe that, as of today, a healthy Siemian gives us a better chance to win football games because he has better chemistry with the 1s, a better release, and a more complete and complex understanding of Kubiak's offense, but Lynch definitely has a future in this league, with gobs of untapped potential. I am not taking a side of who is the QBOTF (quarterback of the future) but am happy we are in a situation where we have two cheap young looking guns whom can start AND win us game. What a time to be a Bronco Fan.

 

[MileHigh64]

Outstanding post Dr. Cy! Very good observations! It's very simple for me:

1. Continue to play/win with Siemian and don't waste the opportunity that this season represents for a possible repeat with this incredible defense
2. Get Lynch ready to go because with his skill set, the upside is much greater than Siemian's, IMO.

Great position for the Broncos to find themselves in. If and when Siemian has a poor performance, Kubiak always has an option to throw the young rook in there to try a new spark.

 

[cdumler7]

Here is some of my own Paxton Lynch analysis (i'm no professional, but I would definitely say I have a better understanding than most). If you don't like the nitty gritty football talk, just watch the video and enjoy watching an immensely talented young bronco

What I see from Lynch: Still not comfortable under center. GK did a great job changing his playcalling once Lynch game in, implementing much more shotgun/spread like formations. That is not the GK West Coast ZBS we all know in love in Denver. Makes me think Lynch either a) Doesn't know the playbook well enough yet or b) the coaches have seen he doesn't yet have the proper footwork to be doing under center drops (since he literally only took them in goal line formation at memphis).

Also one thing that is apparent when going from Siemian to Lynch is the release. While Siemian has a very tight short compact release, Lynch's is much longer and elongated and takes more time. While Lynch is a much bigger individual (with 34 1/4th inch arm length, some of the longer arms in this last draft class among QBs), he will really need to continue to work on making that throwing motion more compact in order to help the oline out and help deliver the short to intermediate timing throws that make GK's passing offense flow.

That said it is hard not to fall in love with the tools. Dude is obviously a gifted athlete, which he showed multiple times during his short stint on sunday evading rushers. Can't wait to see him get into open field at some point because he looks like he will cover A LOT of ground quickly (long strider). He also possess upper echelon arm strength. Some of the zip he had on the intermediate throws made me do a double take. Furthermore, the game didn't seem to big for him. He came in and wasn't afraid to throw, improvise, and move around the pocket, all while keeping his eyes down field.

I still believe that, as of today, a healthy Siemian gives us a better chance to win football games because he has better chemistry with the 1s, a better release, and a more complete and complex understanding of Kubiak's offense, but Lynch definitely has a future in this league, with gobs of untapped potential. I am not taking a side of who is the QBOTF (quarterback of the future) but am happy we are in a situation where we have two cheap young looking guns whom can start AND win us game. What a time to be a Bronco Fan.

Well I appreciate this post but am going to have to disagree with it. Just went back and charted Lynch's throws. He had 13 plays where he was in shot gun (now remember this is when he actually passed. Didn't chart the times he took off running/was sacked. On those plays he had 6 completions, 1 drop, obviously 7 incompletions, and probably one that should have been picked off. Now realize 8 of those 13 happened in the 1st half of the game when he came in and was in our 2 minute offense. Most likely Siemian is in shot gun during that stretch if he was healthy enough to play.

Now switch over to the 2nd half because he didn't take a snap from under center until the 2nd half. They had him throw it 16 times in the 2nd half and 11 of those were from under center. From under Center he went 8 of 11. 2 of those incompletions were complete throw away plays and the other one you could maybe qualify it as one. It was his 2nd throw from under Center and he rolled out to the right and tried to fit it in to Latimer along the sideline. Everybody was tightly covered so threw it where nobody could get it but maybe the WR. The other 8 were complete and of course his actual touchdown pass came from under Center on the bootleg play. From what I saw he had one pass that was caught that was pretty bad accuracy wise but the WR made a great catch on a quick screen to Sanders but otherwise they looked on target and on time. He looked like he got back to his 3, 5, or 7-step drop and when he hit that final step the ball was getting ready to come out. So he knew where he was going with the football and threw it with accuracy.

 

[cdumler7]

Just to break that down stats wise from under center. Paxton was 8-11 (72.7%), 106 yards, 1 touchdown, 0 interceptions and a QB Rating of 133.14. Those were just his throws from under Center.

 

[Dr Cyanide 28]

Well I appreciate this post but am going to have to disagree with it. Just went back and charted Lynch's throws. He had 13 plays where he was in shot gun (now remember this is when he actually passed. Didn't chart the times he took off running/was sacked. On those plays he had 6 completions, 1 drop, obviously 7 incompletions, and probably one that should have been picked off. Now realize 8 of those 13 happened in the 1st half of the game when he came in and was in our 2 minute offense. Most likely Siemian is in shot gun during that stretch if he was healthy enough to play.

Now switch over to the 2nd half because he didn't take a snap from under center until the 2nd half. They had him throw it 16 times in the 2nd half and 11 of those were from under center. From under Center he went 8 of 11. 2 of those incompletions were complete throw away plays and the other one you could maybe qualify it as one. It was his 2nd throw from under Center and he rolled out to the right and tried to fit it in to Latimer along the sideline. Everybody was tightly covered so threw it where nobody could get it but maybe the WR. The other 8 were complete and of course his actual touchdown pass came from under Center on the bootleg play. From what I saw he had one pass that was caught that was pretty bad accuracy wise but the WR made a great catch on a quick screen to Sanders but otherwise they looked on target and on time. He looked like he got back to his 3, 5, or 7-step drop and when he hit that final step the ball was getting ready to come out. So he knew where he was going with the football and threw it with accuracy.

i guess that 2 minute offense changed my view because it seemed play after play

 

[cdumler7]

i guess that 2 minute offense changed my view because it seemed play after play

Yeah when I first started watching and the first 8 plays were from shot gun when he actually threw the football I was starting to think the way you were but when they came out in the 2nd half they were running the Kubiak system and Lynch was running it well. I left more impressed after going back and watching it a 2nd and 3rd time and actually paying attention more to what he was doing and the down and distance. It wasn't like he was throwing short every time. So to be 72% accurate from under Center with most of those throws in the 10-20 yard range as I know he on average had 12 air yards per throw this past game (in comparison Siemian was at 6 air yards per throw) is pretty impressive. I do agree with you I think right now Siemian is probably the one a little more in control the entire offense and as a fan probably the guy we can trust a little bit more but Lynch has come a very long way from the last time we saw him in preseason. Throw in we didn't get to see him run with the #1 offense in preseason so some of this could be just the players he is surrounded by.

 

[CEH]

Id rather have a healthy TS for San Diego that a 70% TS for ATL. Every game is important but division games rank #1.

 

[cdumler7]

Id rather have a healthy TS for San Diego that a 70% TS for ATL. Every game is important but division games rank #1.

I really didn't like when Siemian said that he could miss practice all week and still be ready for the game. While I do think that is possible I just think him being on the field with the team is important for such a young player. If this were Manning then by all means take the week off and just be ready for the game. A young guy in his possibly 5th start though you need to be practicing. It is why I would rather Lynch go ahead and take this one if Siemian isn't practicing. We will find out more today with an actual injury report.

 

[MileHigh64]

Siemian back to throwing at practice today. Good chance he's a go for the start on Sunday.

 

[cdumler7]

Siemian back to throwing at practice today. Good chance he's a go for the start on Sunday.

That's good news that he is throwing but not sure how much of an indicator it is that he will play. With the injury being a non-throwing shoulder I never thought him throwing around in practice would be an issue. For me it was always do they think he can take a hit without it hurting too much and how much would that pain affect his ability to actually throw accurately?

Now given this is a very amateur opinion but I watched the few videos they did release from practice of him throwing and it was not looking as good as in the past. He was protecting that arm quite a bit even without anybody charging at him to hit him and the trajectory of his throws was all of the place. I mean I saw one pass from about 10 yards away that the guy just about jumped out of his shoes to try and catch because he sailed it so much. Now maybe they are protecting him and telling him not to throw as hard as he usually would and that is more the reason some of that showed up but at least from what I saw I am highly favoring playing Lynch.

 

[MileHigh64]

Could be. Progressing from not throwing at all yesterday to tossing it around today seems like they're at least going to try to get Siemian ready. Kubiak has not been bashful about the Broncos desire to have him be the starter. However, if he's not ready by then and becomes a liability, I have confidence that Kubes will do the right thing and start Paxton.

 

[cdumler7]

Could be. Progressing from not throwing at all yesterday to tossing it around today seems like they're at least going to try to get Siemian ready. Kubiak has not been bashful about the Broncos desire to have him be the starter. However, if he's not ready by then and becomes a liability, I have confidence that Kubes will do the right thing and start Paxton.

Oh I"m not saying that it isn't a good sign. I'm just saying that I did expect at some point this week he would be throwing at practice. The issue for him won't be his ability to throw the football. It will be more pain tolerance, how much that pain changes the way he throws the football, and how does he handle taking a hit. Sometimes when players have that they work to protect themselves a bit more so maybe he throws too early and a big time turnover happens. Or we see a big fumble because he can't get 2 hands on the ball with actual strength from his left hand. I'm not saying he won't play but I'm hoping Kubiak has learned from last year when he put Manning in when it was clear he wasn't ready to go. I would err on the side of caution in this situation. Lynch has shown plenty that he can handle this offense and be very successful.

The other thing I do worry about with Siemian is if he lies to himself how ready he is. I hate this situation for him as he got an opportunity that not a lot of teams give a 7th rounder and he has done well with it. I'm sure he is thinking that if I miss this game and maybe the next one and Lynch goes and performs well it will be very difficult for the coaches to give me back the job. So we see players willing to go to great lengths to get back on the field so they don't lose their job.

 

[MileHigh64]

Agreed. I'm a huge Paxton Lynch fan and can't wait until he's the Broncos starting quarterback. However, I do think that Siemian is the smart play this weekend, if he's able to go at 100%. Even if Siemian does start, one big hit might bring Lynch into the game quickly. I know the Broncos will have both of them ready. Having two capable QB's is such a great problem to have!

 

[cdumler7]

Agreed. I'm a huge Paxton Lynch fan and can't wait until he's the Broncos starting quarterback. However, I do think that Siemian is the smart play this weekend, if he's able to go at 100%. Even if Siemian does start, one big hit might bring Lynch into the game quickly. I know the Broncos will have both of them ready. Having two capable QB's is such a great problem to have!

Agreed on all points of this post. The nice thing is that Lynch is getting time with the 1's this week so if he has to go in then he should be ready. Even if they don't need Lynch a week of practice with the 1's is a huge moment for him and his development.

And you are right we are so spoiled as fans right now. More than I think we even realize. The fact that we have 2 capable QB's on the roster when I look at teams that don't even have one right now is just impressive. Throw in to have this be what follows up after having Manning for 4 years again just shows how spoiled we are as fans. Most teams spend decades looking for a competent QB and the Broncos might have found 2 of them.

 

[CEH]

Since the start of the season, Paxton has been getting the last 2 plays of every offensive series with the 1s so the coaches are prepping Paxton well before this week.