Examining the Sens fall from grace

[Urkie]

I'm bored and wanted to show people just how bad the Sens management has been the last 5 or 6 years.

Lets start in 03/04 where I think the downfall started.

- Ottawa trades Brooks Laich and a draft pick for Peter Bondra

All Bondra does is put up 0 points in the playoffs and the Sens lose him for nothing. Brooks Laich goes on to be a solid player for the Caps.

- Ottawa trades Marian Hossa and Greg De Vries for Dany Heatley

Hindsight is 20/20 but Hossa was tremendous throughout his time in Ottawa. Looking back, Muckler should have just traded Redden like everyone speculated he would.

- Ottawa lets Zdeno Chara walk and resigns Wade Redden

Enough said right here. The worst move in franchise history I would say. They let a Norris trophy winning defensemen leave the organization for absolutely nothing.

- Ottawa trades Martin Havlat and Bryan Smolinski for Josh Hennessy, Tom Preissing, Michal Barinka and a 2nd round pick (Patrick Wiercioch)

The Sens get a whole lot of nothing in return for a guy who is a borderline superstar.

- Ottawa trades Patrick Eaves and Joe Corvo for Cory Stillman and Mike Commodore

I think they gave up on Eaves too quickly. He scored 20 goals in his rookie season and then never really gave him a chance after that. At the time of the trade, it was already apparent that Redden was probably heading out of town so why did Murray trade the only remaining defensemen who could quarterback a powerplay? Nobody really knows. Stillman and Commodore walk after the season is over. Sens lose both Eaves and Corvo for nothing.

- Ottawa loses Wade Redden to free agency

Okay, Redden is pretty bad now but he used to be a Team Canada regular. Losing him for absolutely nothing hurt the team quite a bit. Now both of the Sens all star defensemen are gone

- Ottawa trades Andrej Meszaros for Filip Kuba, Alexandre Picard and SJ's 1st round pick (eventually turned into Chris Campoli)

Not the worst trade on this list by far but Meszaros is thriving in Philly now. All we've really got to show from this deal is Filip Kuba, who is much worse then Meszaros. The whole rationale behind the deal was to clear cap space. What's funny is that Kuba was signed to a similar contract to Meszaros' a couple years later.

- Ottawa trades Antoine Vermette to Columbus for Pascal Leclaire and a 2nd round pick (Robin Lehner)

Vermette was never given a fair shake in Ottawa. There's a reason he had a career year the season after he was traded to Columbus. If the Sens had been more patient with him then he could have easily slid into the role of second line center. Something this team has NEVER had. And I'm willing to bet that Leclaire won't be returning to the Sens next year.

- Ottawa trades Dany Heatley to San Jose for Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo and a 5th round draft pick.

The Sens lose their best goal scorer for Michalek (who is very injury prone) and Cheechoo who is in the AHL right now. Management was really put in a bad situation but I think they were the ones that instigated it anyway.

- Ottawa signs Alexei Kovalev

Bad signing. Knew it then and it's even more apparent now.

- Ottawa lets Anton Volchenkov walk, signs Sergei Gonchar

Not what the Sens needed at all. Not after letting Volchenkov go. Someone like Zybnek Michalek would have been a much better signing. Hell, it would have been better to just resign Volchenkov for LESS then what they signed Gonchar for.


So you look at this list and its no wonder the Sens are no longer one of the elite teams in the league. I would argue that they've had the worst management in the league based on this list.

 

[evolver115]

Volchenkov allowed to leave via FA was a BIG mistake. The defensive pairing of Phillips and A-ton was lethal. Replacing him with the injury prone and defensive-less skills of Sergei Gonchar(-14 +/-) is making a bad situation even worse.

I don't know how much you can criticize the heatley trade, other than they didn't get fair value for him. Heatley is an asshole, and he acted like one to get out of town. That whole debacle was a mess. Yet, the Sens should have received more value in return for what they actually got.

 

[dash]

Choosing Redden over Chara was the biggest mistake in my opinion, although to be fair, Redden's play at the time made it a pretty tough decision. The big 'Z' has if anything elevated his play and unfortunately Redden's play took a big downturn.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

Chara over Redden was by far the worst one.

The Heatley one was pretty forced; I don't believe for a second that management was to blame for this debacle except for announcing the Edmonton trade before bitch -boy Heatley approved the deal.

Havlat was a casualty of the salary cap; they might have gotten more for him but as deep as they were at right wing at the time they felt they could just get rid of him.

Corvo had (quietly) demanded a trade out of Ottawa; he didn't like the pressure and scrutiny of a Canadian market. I wouldn't want a guy like that on my team. He was such a pushover in the playoffs for Ottawa he had me screaming at him for the duration of the SCF. Still could maybe have gotten more for him.

I have no problem with the Meszaros trade except for what they did with the 1st round pick they recieved in the deal. Why the fuck would you waste a 1st rounder on Campoli in the middle of a lost season. Murray was a "buyer" for some unknown reason that year. Terrible.

Hossa for Heatley was one that I hated at the time, grew to like and now hate again. Hossa was awesome. A lot of the core guys on the Sens were against this trade when it happened. Chara, Neil, Fisher and Alfredsson loved Hossa's work ethic and team-first attitude. I can't really blame management for this one. Heatley played great for 3 seasons, mailed it in for the last 3/4 of another season than showed the world what a complete asshat he is.

Antoine Vermette for Leclaire and a 2nd rounder is looking to be a pretty good trade for both teams. Lehner will be a solid (maybe excellent) NHL goalie.

Anton Volchenkov was one of my favourite players ever but I would NEVER give a guy who plays his game the money he got from Jersey. He gets hurt too much and by the end of his deal will be a shadow of himself. That being said I wouldn't have given Gonchar more that 2 years and $4.5M. That was a mistake, IMO.

Signing Kovalev was a bad move. Murray rushed to replace Heatley's offense. more patience would have been better. In fairness there are some positives to Kovy's signing. He was ahuge part of saving the Sens season last year. His 25 points in the 22 games before the Olympics was ahuge part of Ottawa getting hot enough during that span t make into the playoffs. After the Olympics he was terrible. This kind of inconsistency is why I would never have signed the guy; Murray shouldn't have either. His $5M coming off of the books this summer will be nice.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Havlat played well on a team with Toews and Kane, then basically vanished off the face of the earth in Minny. No, they didn't get the greatest haul for him but he's a supremely talented player who's as durable as a soap bubble and can't produce without top notch line mates.

In hindsight though, these moves viewed in succession are pretty ugly.

 

[Urkie]

Hossa for Heatley was one that I hated at the time, grew to like and now hate again. Hossa was awesome. A lot of the core guys on the Sens were against this trade when it happened. Chara, Neil, Fisher and Alfredsson loved Hossa's work ethic and team-first attitude. I can't really blame management for this one. Heatley played great for 3 seasons, mailed it in for the last 3/4 of another season than showed the world what a complete asshat he is.

I'm the same here. I hated the trade, then grew to like it and now hate it again. I'll make this a known fact. Hossa was my favorite player throughout his time in Ottawa. I loved his game while he was in Ottawa and I still love the way he plays. He's also a good example of a guy who works extremely hard night in and night out. Something I feel the team is kind of lacking right now.

Antoine Vermette for Leclaire and a 2nd rounder is looking to be a pretty good trade for both teams. Lehner will be a solid (maybe excellent) NHL goalie.

I don't know though. I mean, Lehner might turn out to be good but I thought Jeff Glass would be good too. Vermette should be the number 2 center on the team right now. He was just never put in a position where he could succeed in Ottawa.

Anton Volchenkov was one of my favourite players ever but I would NEVER give a guy who plays his game the money he got from Jersey. He gets hurt too much and by the end of his deal will be a shadow of himself. That being said I wouldn't have given Gonchar more that 2 years and $4.5M. That was a mistake, IMO.

One of the strengths that every good team in the league has is a good shutdown pair. Phillips and Volchenkov was one of the best, if not the best in the league. Looking back, I would have resigned Volchenkov for sure. I was skeptical about the Gonchar signing from the beginning. Now I know for sure it was a mistake.

Signing Kovalev was a bad move. Murray rushed to replace Heatley's offense. more patience would have been better. In fairness there are some positives to Kovy's signing. He was ahuge part of saving the Sens season last year. His 25 points in the 22 games before the Olympics was ahuge part of Ottawa getting hot enough during that span t make into the playoffs. After the Olympics he was terrible. This kind of inconsistency is why I would never have signed the guy; Murray shouldn't have either. His $5M coming off of the books this summer will be nice.

I hated this signing from the start too. He's just not consistent enough to be making $5 million per season.

And you make a good point about patience. Murray has made far too many panic moves when it required patience. He's also hesitated at times when he needed to make a move.

I didn't even touch on the drafting issues of Muckler and the coaching selections of Murray. I mean, when you put it all together, this team has been very poorly managed.

 

[Urkie]

Choosing Redden over Chara was the biggest mistake in my opinion, although to be fair, Redden's play at the time made it a pretty tough decision. The big 'Z' has if anything elevated his play and unfortunately Redden's play took a big downturn.

This one move changed the Senators more then any other.

If Chara was still in Ottawa, then they'd still be an elite team. I fully believe that.

 

[forty_three]

- Ottawa lets Zdeno Chara walk and resigns Wade Redden

In on-ice product, it was a lot closer at the time. I think the bigger issue here is the back-end stuff. For one, no one ever called Chara, he just got dumped. Two, the contract negotiations; Redden was asking for an increased role in the direction of the team, and was told he'd get it. He got shafted. And a lot of players in the league saw it.

His play now notwithstanding, this whole mess was handled wrong. It was possible that they could have held onto both. And if they made the commitment to Redden, they should have cultivated it better.

- Ottawa trades Martin Havlat and Bryan Smolinski for Josh Hennessy, Tom Preissing, Michal Barinka and a 2nd round pick (Patrick Wiercioch)

They would never have afforded Havlat. Getting Smoke, Hennessey, Preissing and Weiroch is a pretty decent return on a guy you wouldn't sign anyway. I think this was actually one of the finer moments. Havlat is injury prone and too enigmatic. The team needed stability

- Ottawa trades Patrick Eaves and Joe Corvo for Cory Stillman and Mike Commodore

Corvo pretty much forced this one, and I think the return was effective. The failure is how they used what they got. Stillman got lowered ice time, and Commodore got the Chara treatment when it was time to re-sign. The problem wasn't the trade, it's what they did with the assets. Look at Commie now, wouldn't he still look great in a Sens Jersey?

- Ottawa loses Wade Redden to free agency

He left broken and disappointed. Another important piece in the history of the Sens tossed away. I really can't imagine why anyone with a shred of self respect would choose to play there. Seriously.

- Ottawa trades Andrej Meszaros for Filip Kuba, Alexandre Picard and SJ's 1st round pick (eventually turned into Chris Campoli)

Meszaros for Campoli and Kuba? And you think this is bad? Another solid deal.

- Ottawa trades Antoine Vermette to Columbus for Pascal Leclaire and a 2nd round pick (Robin Lehner)

I friggin LOVE Vermette. He's a natural center and was never going to move up the chart ahead of Spezz and Fish. He is far too talented to play third line. Something had to give. I think the roll of the dice was a little big on old mushy ankles. I'm not going to fault Murray too much for the gamble. Mainly because I get to watch Vermette all the time now.

- Ottawa trades Dany Heatley to San Jose for Milan Michalek, Jonathan Cheechoo and a 5th round draft pick.

I will only say, again, the players in the league saw that mess unfold. And how it played out, regardless of blame, was noticed. And I think it had a big impact on Spezza.

- Ottawa signs Alexei Kovalev

A team criticized for it's heart signs enigmatic Russian. Totally screwed the pooch. One of the dumbest moves ever. Maybe worse than Bondra.

- Ottawa lets Anton Volchenkov walk, signs Sergei Gonchar

Not what the Sens needed at all. Not after letting Volchenkov go. Someone like Zybnek Michalek would have been a much better signing. Hell, it would have been better to just resign Volchenkov for LESS then what they signed Gonchar for.

This is the fatal blow. And it's effect won't be fully realized until next year when Phillips gets tired of being blamed for shit and walks. Gonchar is old, and makes a lot, and it is a miracle he's played as much as he has this year. The only saving grace is the entry level contracts for the D prospects. Because the salary for Gonchar is pretty much flushed.

I think you forgot one, though:
Ottawa signs Jason Smith to a two year deal and he retires one year into it shortly after stating publicly that the Sens locker room was "the weirdest one I've ever been in."

On paper he was exactly what they needed. Gritty, tough, had captained a underdog team to great heights and was tremendously respected league-wide. In reality, he just became the messenger. A guy like him would rather quit than play there?

 

[Urkie]

I think you forgot one, though:
Ottawa signs Jason Smith to a two year deal and he retires one year into it shortly after stating publicly that the Sens locker room was "the weirdest one I've ever been in."

On paper he was exactly what they needed. Gritty, tough, had captained a underdog team to great heights and was tremendously respected league-wide. In reality, he just became the messenger. A guy like him would rather quit than play there?

I forgot about that one but I was pretty much only including the big name players that the Sens lost.

And that was during the 08/09 season that I pointed out somewhere else. That summer there should have been serious changes. If Murray had actually listened to people like Jason Smith, then maybe we'd be better off right now.

 

[Urkie]

I just saw this article by Wayne Scanlan. It's from a couple days ago but I think it's a well written article by probably the best sports writer in Ottawa. Even he says it might just be time for big changes and he's not a guy that just jumps to conclusions quickly. He's usually pretty spot on.

Scanlan: Do the math ? fix needed in a hurry

 

[Eddie_Shack]

RE: Redden

Didn't Redden's play drop off significantly as soon as Chara was let go? I remember this because I also seem to remember the Sens brass asking him to waive his NTC. Kind of a bad player to give an NTC to, but an even worse move; promise a guy a bigger role in the team, give him an NTC, and then ask him to waive it.

That pretty much opened the door for Redden to walk.

 

[Urkie]

RE: Redden

Didn't Redden's play drop off significantly as soon as Chara was let go? I remember this because I also seem to remember the Sens brass asking him to waive his NTC. Kind of a bad player to give an NTC to, but an even worse move; promise a guy a bigger role in the team, give him an NTC, and then ask him to waive it.

That pretty much opened the door for Redden to walk.

Yes, his play did drop off significantly. Pretty much starting the following year after he signed the contract, he regressed at a rapid pace.

However, you have to remember that he was considered to be one of the best defensemen in the league at the time he signed his contract. Almost as good as Chara.

But he was one of the faces of the franchise for a long time. To treat him like dirt at the end probably wasn't a very smart move. Even if he did suck. I think this rubbed some of the other Sens players the wrong way as well.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

In on-ice product, it was a lot closer at the time. I think the bigger issue here is the back-end stuff. For one, no one ever called Chara, he just got dumped. Two, the contract negotiations; Redden was asking for an increased role in the direction of the team, and was told he'd get it. He got shafted. And a lot of players in the league saw it.

His play now notwithstanding, this whole mess was handled wrong. It was possible that they could have held onto both. And if they made the commitment to Redden, they should have cultivated it better.



They would never have afforded Havlat. Getting Smoke, Hennessey, Preissing and Weiroch is a pretty decent return on a guy you wouldn't sign anyway. I think this was actually one of the finer moments. Havlat is injury prone and too enigmatic. The team needed stability



Corvo pretty much forced this one, and I think the return was effective. The failure is how they used what they got. Stillman got lowered ice time, and Commodore got the Chara treatment when it was time to re-sign. The problem wasn't the trade, it's what they did with the assets. Look at Commie now, wouldn't he still look great in a Sens Jersey?



He left broken and disappointed. Another important piece in the history of the Sens tossed away. I really can't imagine why anyone with a shred of self respect would choose to play there. Seriously.



Meszaros for Campoli and Kuba? And you think this is bad? Another solid deal.



I friggin LOVE Vermette. He's a natural center and was never going to move up the chart ahead of Spezz and Fish. He is far too talented to play third line. Something had to give. I think the roll of the dice was a little big on old mushy ankles. I'm not going to fault Murray too much for the gamble. Mainly because I get to watch Vermette all the time now.



I will only say, again, the players in the league saw that mess unfold. And how it played out, regardless of blame, was noticed. And I think it had a big impact on Spezza.



A team criticized for it's heart signs enigmatic Russian. Totally screwed the pooch. One of the dumbest moves ever. Maybe worse than Bondra.



This is the fatal blow. And it's effect won't be fully realized until next year when Phillips gets tired of being blamed for shit and walks. Gonchar is old, and makes a lot, and it is a miracle he's played as much as he has this year. The only saving grace is the entry level contracts for the D prospects. Because the salary for Gonchar is pretty much flushed.

I think you forgot one, though:
Ottawa signs Jason Smith to a two year deal and he retires one year into it shortly after stating publicly that the Sens locker room was "the weirdest one I've ever been in."

On paper he was exactly what they needed. Gritty, tough, had captained a underdog team to great heights and was tremendously respected league-wide. In reality, he just became the messenger. A guy like him would rather quit than play there?

I agree with most of what you've said. I disagree about Redden for the most part. If you want a bigger role (he was an alternate and was considered one of the leaders), you have to play well. He signed for $6.5M per year and then mailed it in. The Senators owed him nothing after that.

I disagree about Volchenkov. He was perhaps my favourite Senator (at least my favourite D-Man). But matching the Devils offer for him would pretty much have guaranteed the exact same team as last year. That team just wasn't good enough. Not even really close to being good enough. A new direction was needed. Murray took what is looking like the wrong direction, but a new direction was needed nonetheless.

This team had a pretty good run; over the last 13 years they've been more successful than all but about 6 teams in the league. The run is over though and a rebuild, if done promptly and properly, could see them be a contender again as quickly as next year or the year after.

Oh and the last person I'd look to for proper judgment on what's weird is Jason Smith. Yikes.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

You better watch what you say or Bettman will move the team to Ogden Utah.

 

[Urkie]

This team had a pretty good run; over the last 13 years they've been more successful than all but about 6 teams in the league. The run is over though and a rebuild, if done promptly and properly, could see them be a contender again as quickly as next year or the year after.

This is really it when you look at it. Yes, bad management at times probably accelerated the downfall. So did the salary cap but it's impossible to sustain an elite team for a long time.

Even Detroit will fall sooner or later.

 

[forty_three]

I disagree about Volchenkov. He was perhaps my favourite Senator (at least my favourite D-Man). But matching the Devils offer for him would pretty much have guaranteed the exact same team as last year. That team just wasn't good enough. Not even really close to being good enough. A new direction was needed. Murray took what is looking like the wrong direction, but a new direction was needed nonetheless.

Oh and the last person I'd look to for proper judgment on what's weird is Jason Smith. Yikes.

I get what you're saying about Volchenkov, but with hindsight being 20/20 and all, if the wheels were coming off the wagon and they were pretty much destined for a rebuild, wouldn't you rather rebuild with at least a top tier shutdown pair AND an extra million under the cap? They have great D prospects who could fill a solid and imposing D corps around a premier tandem. Provided they had one. And now, Phillips is bearing a lot of heat , so they probably won't have him to build around.

As for Smith, I don't lament the loss of his skill. My rather poorly made point was more about what his departure appeared to reinforce; a highly cannibalistic and divided atmosphere. Emery and McGrattan had griped, but everyone knew they were crazy. Nobody took Corvo seriously because he never articulated his reason well, and sounded like a crybaby. Commodore made some comments, but he's a major league goofball. But Smith? For what it was worth, a lot of people really respected him. After that, there was the Heatley thing, Spezza's fiasco, and now Kovalev and the story is almost always exactly the same. A bigger systemic issue is at play and I still feel a lot of players see it. It affects player movement. Chara waited two years to talk about it, but his comments are out there now too.

Think of it like a job. There's a company here in town that pays it's IT security people ridiculously well, a good 20% more than I make now. But they are completely inflexible about time off, often demand you be there every weekend and generally treat people like cattle. They can't hire anyone to save their life. A guy I know was laid off from another job and chose moving his family to Raliegh over staying here and working for them.

With Free Agency they money is bigger, but the motivators are the same. I am not going to go somewhere to be treated like crap. And the people who can look past that for a big paycheck are not the ones you want around.

As the Sens are learning with Kovalev.