Eric Decker skips OTA's... on Behalf of Ryan Fitzpatrick

[HaroldSeattle]

Interesting situation. Fitz really doesn't have a option other then retiring and the Jets need him if they wish to be competive this year. Think they will meet in the middle eventually. Say 10 million or so.

 

[jakedog56]

New reports state that the Jets have offered Fitz 3 years-$24 million with $12 million in the first year and an average of $6 million a year in the final 2 years.

So is $12 million a year enough or is he wanting a longer term contract than this apparently 3 year but quite possibly 1 and done deal?

 

[Breed]

Anybody know what Fitz is asking for and what the Jets seem to think he's worth?

The other day I heard on ESPN the Jets offered Fitz 12 mill for the 2016 season a while back and he turned it down. They didn't report anything beyond that though which seemed, I dunno, a little odd.

From an article and this is more opinion than fact from a beat writer, but it sounds plausible from both angles. Why Fitz didn't go for the initial deal, as well as a potential solution to the problem.

Jets-Ryan Fitzpatrick standoff could use a word from Ron Burgundy

At first glance, it's easy to criticize Fitzpatrick for not accepting a contract that would pay him $12 million in the first year, but that would be unfair unless you know the entire proposal. The numbers for the second and third year of the three-year offer have yet to emerge, but my sense is that it's a total of about $12 million, making it a three-year, $24 million deal. Fitzpatrick could earn more with incentives, but that won't be easy, as I'll explain in a bit. The bottom line is, if Fitzpatrick plays well this season and retains his starting job, he'd be significantly underpaid in 2017.

The solution might be a one-year contract or a two-year deal that includes a team option for 2017, a la Sam Bradford. The latter choice would give the Jets the ability to keep Fitzpatrick for next year, using his 2016 performance to determine his pay in 2017.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Fitzpatrick is a moron. The guy is going to be 34 in short order and he's a mediocre QB at best who plays in a mediocre division (outside of New England although Bills seem to be on the rise).

Jets' offer at $24M over 3 seasons is completely reasonable (with high incentives.. so if he reaches playoffs in years 2/3 and puts up some stats should be like a $4M bonus and SBOWL win would be like a $2M additional bonus or something).

Jets also have a very good defense, so it's not like they NEED Fitzpatrick as much as he needs $24M at the moment. They can probably just go in there with Hackenburg or the bad Gene and be playoff competitive anyway.

 

[jarntt]

I think I'll skip the shittiest days of my work year for Fitzpatrick too...you know,,,just in support of him...

 

[jarntt]

On one hand...I don't blame Fitz for holding his ground...teams like WAS, HOU and PHI have really inflated the mediocre QB market and he's done as much or more than guys like Osweiler, or Bradford.

On the other hand...he wet the bed badly in his chance to get them to the dance LY...got be guarded giving him a long term blank type check contract at his age.

There has to be some middle ground, and I think there will be eventually.

Doesn't seem that is what he is even looking for though. Jets offered him closer to what Philly is paying their 3rd string QB. When QBs that still need to prove themselves are getting almost $20M per I don't see a problem with Fitz asking for $12M per. I also don't have a problem with the Jets telling him no that they aren't going to pay him more just because a bunch of the teams are friggin idiots with these QB contracts. But, they better hope plan B works out better than last time...

 

[cdumler7]

Doesn't seem that is what he is even looking for though. Jets offered him closer to what Philly is paying their 3rd string QB. When QBs that still need to prove themselves are getting almost $20M per I don't see a problem with Fitz asking for $12M per. I also don't have a problem with the Jets telling him no that they aren't going to pay him more just because a bunch of the teams are friggin idiots with these QB contracts. But, they better hope plan B works out better than last time...

I think with how much QB contracts are getting out of control you are going to see a lot of teams trying to go the Seahawks way of hoping to strike gold with maybe even just an average QB through the draft then use all the extra Cap Space to build an incredible team around the player. Huge risk but huge reward. To me I would rather see my team do that than continue to be in mediocrity because you are overpaying an average QB $20 million a year.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Doesn't seem that is what he is even looking for though. Jets offered him closer to what Philly is paying their 3rd string QB. When QBs that still need to prove themselves are getting almost $20M per I don't see a problem with Fitz asking for $12M per. I also don't have a problem with the Jets telling him no that they aren't going to pay him more just because a bunch of the teams are friggin idiots with these QB contracts. But, they better hope plan B works out better than last time...

The latest I guess...Jets have upped the ante for this season to $12m, but yrs 2 & 3 are roughly $6m ea...the two back end yrs I don't get...just make it $12m per and give him a $6m roster bonus for 2 & 3.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think with how much QB contracts are getting out of control you are going to see a lot of teams trying to go the Seahawks way of hoping to strike gold with maybe even just an average QB through the draft then use all the extra Cap Space to build an incredible team around the player. Huge risk but huge reward. To me I would rather see my team do that than continue to be in mediocrity because you are overpaying an average QB $20 million a year.

What made the C-Hawks model work...RW turned out to be far better than avg.

 

[cdumler7]

What made the C-Hawks model work...RW turned out to be far better than avg.

I guess this is how you look at it. While yes having Wilson as good as he was obviously helped. At the same time with that defense playing at such an elite level could a lesser QB have won that Super Bowl with them especially considering they did still have Lynch on the offense to get the running game going? So could an average QB still have won the Super Bowl? I don't want to take anything away from Wilson because he was a huge boost to that team. I just think they could have still won it with an average QB paired with the running game and the incredible defense.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I guess this is how you look at it. While yes having Wilson as good as he was obviously helped. At the same time with that defense playing at such an elite level could a lesser QB have won that Super Bowl with them especially considering they did still have Lynch on the offense to get the running game going? So could an average QB still have won the Super Bowl? I don't want to take anything away from Wilson because he was a huge boost to that team. I just think they could have still won it with an average QB paired with the running game and the incredible defense.

I just look at the team prior to RW...they were good on DEF, but couldn't get over the hump...Jackson was not terrible, but didn't make enough plays when it mattered....in terms of the hypothetical...idk to be honest with you...DEN showed it can be done LY, but they got an all world performance from VM in the SB too.

 

[cdumler7]

I just look at the team prior to RW...they were good on DEF, but couldn't get over the hump...Jackson was not terrible, but didn't make enough plays when it mattered....in terms of the hypothetical...idk to be honest with you...DEN showed it can be done LY, but they got an all world performance from VM in the SB too.

They were a good defense but they were not on that historical level that we saw in 2013. They were able to use that money saved at the QB position to really bolster the pass rush to go with the incredible secondary and just make them down right scary. Now yes I know I am playing the hypothetical and maybe they don't win the Super Bowl without RW. We will never know. I just know that teams stuck paying average QB's $18-20 million a year are going nowhere fast. They continue to rot in mediocrity because they can't pay anybody but they are still good enough to finish in that 6-10 to 9-7 area that gives you enough hope that maybe they can get over the hump yet year in and year out they miss out on the top-10 pick type players and stay in that spot.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

They were a good defense but they were not on that historical level that we saw in 2013. They were able to use that money saved at the QB position to really bolster the pass rush to go with the incredible secondary and just make them down right scary. Now yes I know I am playing the hypothetical and maybe they don't win the Super Bowl without RW. We will never know. I just know that teams stuck paying average QB's $18-20 million a year are going nowhere fast. They continue to rot in mediocrity because they can't pay anybody but they are still good enough to finish in that 6-10 to 9-7 area that gives you enough hope that maybe they can get over the hump yet year in and year out they miss out on the top-10 pick type players and stay in that spot.

Agree...they were able to go out and get Avril and retain him, other names escape me on the DEF...but that was a fairly weak pass protection OL...RW made plays behind that OL that I'm not sure too many guys make, even if they were mobile.

It's not the money the QBs are getting...it's the production for the money spent...this season the AFC SB favorites PIT & NE both have very expensive QBs, but they get a lot of production...both teams have enough around them to get to the big game and win it. in the NFC...GB & AZ are legit SB contenders.

Where the debate swings into your favor is a team like ATL...Matt Ryan makes similar money to the top QBs, typically he produces, but the lack of investment in the trenches have held them back and one slip from Ryan and all of a sudden, they're not playoff caliber. They are not going to go far w/o a legit edge rusher to pair with Beasley.

Granted there are teams that should not be investing 15% of the cap to ANY one player...PHI is one such team. I contend giving the $18-$20m per to a DEF player hamstrings the team considerably more than QB...I'm watching the results in MIA closely...Obviously this is on the mind of Elway as well....he knows Miller is top shelf, but how much is too much long term?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

They were a good defense but they were not on that historical level that we saw in 2013. They were able to use that money saved at the QB position to really bolster the pass rush to go with the incredible secondary and just make them down right scary. Now yes I know I am playing the hypothetical and maybe they don't win the Super Bowl without RW. We will never know. I just know that teams stuck paying average QB's $18-20 million a year are going nowhere fast. They continue to rot in mediocrity because they can't pay anybody but they are still good enough to finish in that 6-10 to 9-7 area that gives you enough hope that maybe they can get over the hump yet year in and year out they miss out on the top-10 pick type players and stay in that spot.

The problem with trying to win a SB based on a elite defense is that it's hard to keep all players on defense, they too want to get a jack pot contract . Think Broncos are experiencing this right now.

 

[cdumler7]

Agree...they were able to go out and get Avril and retain him, other names escape me on the DEF...but that was a fairly weak pass protection OL...RW made plays behind that OL that I'm not sure too many guys make, even if they were mobile.

It's not the money the QBs are getting...it's the production...this season the AFC SB favorites PIT & NE both have very expensive QBs, but they get a lot of production...both teams have enough around them to get to the big game and win it. in the NFC...GB & AZ are legit SB contenders.

Where the debate swings into your favor is a team like ATL...Matt Ryan makes similar money to the top QBs, typically he produces, but the lack of investment in the trenches have held them back and one slip from Ryan and all of a sudden, they're not playoff caliber. They are not going to go far w/o a legit edge rusher to pair with Beasley.

Granted there are teams that should not be investing 15& of the cap to ANY one player...PHI is one such team. I contend giving the $18-$20m per to a DEF player hamstrings the team considerably more than QB...I'm watching the results in MIA closely...Obviously this is on the mind of Elway as well....he knows Miller is top shelf, but how much is too much long term?

Michael Bennett their best pass rusher is another that came in 2013 to join that Super Bowl winning team. Like I said adding some of those big time players like that really helped put that defense over the top and really make life easier on the offense to focus on the run game.

And yes I do agree that Wilson does help out with his running around. At the same time I do believe his running around doesn't help the OL look any better either. There are plenty of times Wilson holds onto the ball way too long and starts dancing around. I remember watching the Broncos with Tebow and the OL players talking about how difficult it is to block for a QB that is always running around as they don't know which way to block guys.

Now I will say I do agree giving a defensive player that kind of money makes life very difficult. The only way it works out for the Broncos is if Paxton Lynch develops into a quality QB since they would have him under a very cost effective contract while having Miller making the QB money. They cannot have Miller and a top paid QB on the same roster and build a championship team in my opinion unless they get some of the most incredible drafts we have seen. That is why to me it doesn't work down in Miami having Tannehil and Suh on big contracts. That is why I don't think it will work in Houston with now Osweiler and Watt. The Broncos need Lynch to be what they are hoping.

 

[cdumler7]

The problem with trying to win a SB based on a elite defense is that it's hard to keep all players on defense, they too want to get a jack pot contract . Think Broncos are experiencing this right now.

Oh I get that. What I'm talking about is could the Seahawks possibly have won the Super Bowl with average QB play? I'm on the fence but I just think with how elite that defense was they would have stood a very good chance to have done what the Broncos did this past year. Now thankfully for them they never even had to worry about that and now have one of the elite QB's in the league. And believe me I do get how hard it is to keep the unit together. The Broncos need the QB position to step up this year and long-term need Lynch to become that franchise QB especially if we sign Von to the type of deal they are talking about.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Michael Bennett their best pass rusher is another that came in 2013 to join that Super Bowl winning team. Like I said adding some of those big time players like that really helped put that defense over the top and really make life easier on the offense to focus on the run game.

And yes I do agree that Wilson does help out with his running around. At the same time I do believe his running around doesn't help the OL look any better either. There are plenty of times Wilson holds onto the ball way too long and starts dancing around. I remember watching the Broncos with Tebow and the OL players talking about how difficult it is to block for a QB that is always running around as they don't know which way to block guys.

Now I will say I do agree giving a defensive player that kind of money makes life very difficult. The only way it works out for the Broncos is if Paxton Lynch develops into a quality QB since they would have him under a very cost effective contract while having Miller making the QB money. They cannot have Miller and a top paid QB on the same roster and build a championship team in my opinion unless they get some of the most incredible drafts we have seen. That is why to me it doesn't work down in Miami having Tannehil and Suh on big contracts. That is why I don't think it will work in Houston with now Osweiler and Watt. The Broncos need Lynch to be what they are hoping.

RW/SEA...watching the games that I did...RW is not a runner in the manner of RG3 or even Cam...he was running for his life a lot of the time, and maybe he did take some sacks due to holding the ball, but that is typically a choice a conservative qb will make...take the sack and punt vs throwing the ball away or worst yet, a pick...Alex Smith plays the game somewhat similar....I still contend if SEA had another QB back there they are not SB winners and certainly they don't get there back to back seasons....they had to pay that kid....he was a difference maker.

HOU...imo that signing (Os) was a mistake, but another case study to watch play out.

 

[cdumler7]

RW/SEA...watching the games that I did...RW is not a runner in the manner of RG3 or even Cam...he was running for his life a lot of the time, and maybe he did take some sacks due to holding the ball, but that is typically a choice a conservative qb will make...take the sack and punt vs throwing the ball away or worst yet, a pick...Alex Smith plays the game somewhat similar....I still contend if SEA had another QB back there they are not SB winners and certainly they don't get there back to back seasons....they had to pay that kid....he was a difference maker.

HOU...imo that signing (Os) was a mistake, but another case study to watch play out.

Believe me I don't want to take anything away from the impact that Wilson made on winning the Super Bowl and continues to make with that team. I would take Wilson with his huge contract even over the Broncos signing Von Miller to the team right now. Just straight swap even after using a 1st round pick on a QB. I just think that defense in 2013 was that special that maybe they figure out how to get it done even with an average QB and a great run game. That San Fran game in the playoffs is the one I question though of whether they win to make it to the Super Bowl.

And yes I do agree they definitely do not make it to back to back Super Bowls. His play in that Green Bay come back was instrumental to them making it to the Super Bowl. They don't win that game with anyone else.

 

[cdumler7]

And yeah I am definitely interested to see how the Houston experiment goes. I will say Watt's contract doesn't look as bad anymore with some of the other crazy deals that have been signed since he signed his contract. Still high but not record breaking. Still it definitely limits what they can do down the road to add to the roster. Next year and the year after that they are I think bottom-10 in actual cap space so limits their ability to sign more players long-term. Have to completely depend on the draft being home runs or Osweiler becoming a top-10 QB in this league.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

And yeah I am definitely interested to see how the Houston experiment goes. I will say Watt's contract doesn't look as bad anymore with some of the other crazy deals that have been signed since he signed his contract. Still high but not record breaking. Still it definitely limits what they can do down the road to add to the roster. Next year and the year after that they are I think bottom-10 in actual cap space so limits their ability to sign more players long-term. Have to completely depend on the draft being home runs or Osweiler becoming a top-10 QB in this league.

The reason I say this is HOU has the premier edge DL in the game, Hopkins is top 10 at worst...Shorts is a good complimentary WR...solid young RB, it's really on Osweiler...if he just makes the routine play consistently they should be in the playoffs....but for them to really go anywhere...he needs to be good in the RZ.