Eagles realease Mathis

[I miss Dawkins]

lol. You know a debater's got nothing when they cry Mamula.

debating is a lost art.

At one point both people were in search of the truth. Now they just want to win, and truth and reality are sacrificed to that end.

 

[I miss Dawkins]

If you read the post I was responding to, you will see that ctc was belittling the off season program as having little to no effect on the ability to improve the player's performance or evaluate their ability. He seems to think they are of little value as they are tagged optional even though 99.8% of the players attend. He characterized it as "running around in your shorts".

My point was that the offseason program was much more than that (although I do not know the details of what they do in the classroom or weight room). Although jobs are rarely technically won and lost in these activities , players performance clearly improves their chances. This off season alone, it looks like Carroll, Thurmond, Barbre, Tobin and Ertz have all positioned themselves nicely for a chance to be starters. Hart, Curry and Huff have also raised their stock according to most reports.

Being an NFL player is overall a pretty nice work schedule. You pretty much get January thru April 20th off and then another 6 weeks in June and July. That is about 4.5 months off a year. Its pretty irresponsible and risky to take the additional two months of OTAs off as well. While it's not required, neither is your employment and a smart player will use every opportunity to get better. Mathis clearly wasn't being smart.

Its comical that you consider my point of view bizarre on this when it seems that 99.8% of NFL players see the value in the program and several former teammates share (and influenced) my opinion of Mathis being cut.

What is really unfathomable to me is that several of you still seem to want to support this guy Mathis, who...
- Was unhappy with his $5.5M pay and was lobbying for a significant increase.
- Was granted his release, and now has discovered that no one seems to be willing to even come close to his old salary much less his expectations.
- Opted to skip two months of work while his other 89 teammates do not.
- In the opinion of Tra Thomas, Jason Peters and the coaching staff had fallen behind Barbre as the team's best choice for left guard.

Seems to be an case of unconditional and irrational man love going on to me. Once one of you guys invest in a Jersey (a strange tradition in and of itself), you go all in for life.

His only good points is that we has been a good guard and teammate in the past and seems to have a great sense of humor (at least on twitter). I really do think the Eagles would prefer to have someone with his skill set and experience on the team, but it never would have worked with him as a backup when he was that full of himself. We can only hope (and it think its a real faint hope), that he may see things differently after testing the waters of Free Agency.

man you love to throw that 99.8% out there. Your making the point that because that many attend, that mean they see the value in it. Uh... how about.. that is how many realize if they don't attend they lose their standing or ability to earn? And hasn't the NFLPA done things to restrict and reduce off season workouts? Wouldn't that suggest the opposite of what your trying to use that stat for???

 

[deerpathdave]

man you love to throw that 99.8% out there. Your making the point that because that many attend, that mean they see the value in it. Uh... how about.. that is how many realize if they don't attend they lose their standing or ability to earn? And hasn't the NFLPA done things to restrict and reduce off season workouts? Wouldn't that suggest the opposite of what your trying to use that stat for???

For probably around 80% of the players you are correct that they know they need to be there to get or retain a job. Its the other 19.8% that I think is impressive. You know that Jason Peters, Jason Kelce, Lane Johnson, Fletcher Cox, Connor Barwin and Malcolm Jenkins have to feel pretty secure about there jobs. But here they are, being team leaders and working hard on their game for two months in April through June. They are being professionals. When teams only ask you to be at work 8.5 months out of the year for a job that pays millions, it pretty poor to take an additional 2 months off just because the union has tagged them as optional.

 

[deerpathdave]

debating is a lost art.

At one point both people were in search of the truth. Now they just want to win, and truth and reality are sacrificed to that end.

so true

 

[ctc]

lol. This is why I called this an excellent example of coachspeak. Kelly offers up something for everyone in that little speech...kind of saying everything and nothing all at once. You can read anything you want out of that little statement and you just did.

To really understand what someone thinks, watch what they do, not what they say. Barbre was taking every single rep in OTA at LG and they cut Evan Mathis. If Chip was serious in saying you can't make assessments without pads on, Mathis would still be on the team.

IOW you're now suggesting Kelly is a liar. That he in fact does make decisions about people while they run around in shorts.

So now you have created the conundrum of Kelly saying don't trust me, I'm a liar.

You've descended into the absurd.

 

[deerpathdave]

[QUOTEse="ctc, post: 6798984, member: 8793"]IOW you're now suggesting Kelly is a liar. That he in fact does make decisions about people while they run around in shorts.

So now you have created the conundrum of Kelly saying don't trust me, I'm a liar.

You've descended into the absurd.[/QUOTE]
Um. Yeah. On certain subjects just about every head coach will lie a little. On matters of personnel and competing it's the prudent course of action. When I said coach speak that is what I was saying. Lie ing for the betterment of the team.

 

[deerpathdave]

From SI MMQB. I think its interesting that he thinks Mathis will get a raise, but also his commenting that depth charts are all but solidified after OTAs.

2. I think Evan Mathis will get the raise he was looking for in Philadelphia elsewhere, but it will take time. I’m told 10 teams are interested in the former Pro Bowler, who was set to make $5.5 million in 2015 but was instead released at one of the worst possible times in the NFL calendar. Depth charts are all but solidified across the league, and several teams who would have been interested in signing the 33-year-old at the start of free agency no longer have the cap room. My money is on the Dolphins eventually making the deal.

 

[ctc]

[QUOTEse="ctc, post: 6798984, member: 8793"]IOW you're now suggesting Kelly is a liar. That he in fact does make decisions about people while they run around in shorts.

So now you have created the conundrum of Kelly saying don't trust me, I'm a liar.

You've descended into the absurd.

Um. Yeah. On certain subjects just about every head coach will lie a little. On matters of personnel and competing it's the prudent course of action. When I said coach speak that is what I was saying. Lie ing for the betterment of the team.[/QUOTE]

What you started out saying was that Kelly made the decision because he felt he had better talent in house. Now you're suggesting he's lying to protect his decision.

Which is fine, that's what I've been saying all along.

 

[deerpathdave]

Um. Yeah. On certain subjects just about every head coach will lie a little. On matters of personnel and competing it's the prudent course of action. When I said coach speak that is what I was saying. Lie ing for the betterment of the team.

What you started out saying was that Kelly made the decision because he felt he had better talent in house. Now you're suggesting he's lying to protect his decision.

Which is fine, that's what I've been saying all along.[/QUOTE]

lol. And what I have been saying as well. Barbre won the starting job, and Kelly isn't going to say so in public as it would be throwing Mathis under the bus, so he lies a little. But its not to protect his decision, its to protect his player...past and present. Its the professional thing to do. No need to make enemies.

 

[Birds4life81]

 

[Deano]

See How fast Mathis signed with another team? I can't wait to see how much he has to settle for and see how he spins it. I still say his agent cost him between 3-9 million.

 

[ctc]

What you started out saying was that Kelly made the decision because he felt he had better talent in house. Now you're suggesting he's lying to protect his decision.

Which is fine, that's what I've been saying all along.

lol. And what I have been saying as well. Barbre won the starting job, and Kelly isn't going to say so in public as it would be throwing Mathis under the bus, so he lies a little. But its not to protect his decision, its to protect his player...past and present. Its the professional thing to do. No need to make enemies.[/QUOTE]

What you've been saying is that kelly made the decision based on what tobin and barbre showed in ota activities, that they were better than mathis.

 

[deerpathdave]

lol. And what I have been saying as well. Barbre won the starting job, and Kelly isn't going to say so in public as it would be throwing Mathis under the bus, so he lies a little. But its not to protect his decision, its to protect his player...past and present. Its the professional thing to do. No need to make enemies.

What you've been saying is that kelly made the decision based on what tobin and barbre showed in ota activities, that they were better than mathis.[/QUOTE]

Yes. Not necessarily better, but clearly capable of starting and deserving of the opportunity. It was going to be pretty ugly to bring Mathis in as second string.

 

[ctc]

Earlier you were telling us he had earned the job. That he 'merited' it.

Now it's just deserving of the opportunity.

 

[lpennington]

agent

His agent definitely cost him a dough IMO. Look at this summary of Miami's current cap situation:

Assuming the Dolphins will look to keep $5 million for use during the season in case of injuries, that leaves Miami about $6.7 million to spend. They could offer that money to Mathis, or they could get creative with a multiple year offer that will give Mathis a large signing bonus this year, with a small base salary, that keeps his salary cap number low for the year. The only issue there is, Miami has the most money committed to the 2016 season already, with projections having them around $5 million over the salary cap. While that number is not a guarantee, it does mean the team has to be careful about mortgaging next season for a player this year.

Doesn't like Mathis will get more appreciably more than the $$$ he had coming from us.

 

[deerpathdave]

Earlier you were telling us he had earned the job. That he 'merited' it.

Now it's just deserving of the opportunity.

Yes I have a large vocabulary. After 396 posts I like to try a few different words.

 

[eaglesnut]

Yes...now you seem to be catching on. Teams routinely shift cap space from year to year with this approach. They can use cap space from future (and past) years and do all the time.

They do it prior to free agency. Not in the summer. I'm not sure if after June 1st they can even really do it at all. What would a restructuring player have to gain that wasn't already taken care of in the offseason? Very few guys with significant salaries would be able to do what you are assuming is easy to do.

lol. This is why I called this an excellent example of coachspeak. Kelly offers up something for everyone in that little speech...kind of saying everything and nothing all at once. You can read anything you want out of that little statement and you just did.

Chip Kelly is not afraid of being honest. That is one of his main traits. He knows when he has to legally avoid the truth, and he's smart enough not to say something stupid, but when he's talking football, and talking preparation especially, he gives it to you straight. Preparation is like his favorite thing in the world. He doesn't place much value on warping people's minds. He doesn't think it has value.

To really understand what someone thinks, watch what they do, not what they say. Barbre was taking every single rep in OTA at LG and they cut Evan Mathis. If Chip was serious in saying you can't make assessments without pads on, Mathis would still be on the team.

That's you using your circular logic again. You shouldn't do that. It's not logical.

 

[deerpathdave]

They do it prior to free agency. Not in the summer. I'm not sure if after June 1st they can even really do it at all. What would a restructuring player have to gain that wasn't already taken care of in the offseason? Very few guys with significant salaries would be able to do what you are assuming is easy to do.



Chip Kelly is not afraid of being honest. That is one of his main traits. He knows when he has to legally avoid the truth, and he's smart enough not to say something stupid, but when he's talking football, and talking preparation especially, he gives it to you straight. Preparation is like his favorite thing in the world. He doesn't place much value on warping people's minds. He doesn't think it has value.



That's you using your circular logic again. You shouldn't do that. It's not logical.

The contracts end is easy to do and happens any time a team wants to do it. And players jump at it, because it normally involves taking Salary in current year and turning into Bonus money today. Its money in the pocket today, and is also essentially job security in the future as the cap hit to cut the player goes up. You only do this with players you figure will be around for several years.

The logic is not circular, but rather a straight line from Barbre/Tobin showing up and performing well, to Mathis being cut. Nearly every player is replaceable to some degree, but probably few more than Guards. There is a surplus on the market of guys with these physical attributes.

 

[eaglesnut]

The contracts end is easy to do and happens any time a team wants to do it. And players jump at it, because it normally involves taking Salary in current year and turning into Bonus money today. Its money in the pocket today, and is also essentially job security in the future as the cap hit to cut the player goes up. You only do this with players you figure will be around for several years.

The logic is not circular, but rather a straight line from Barbre/Tobin showing up and performing well, to Mathis being cut. Nearly every player is replaceable to some degree, but probably few more than Guards. There is a surplus on the market of guys with these physical attributes.

After June 1st, the team has now lost a year to spread the SB out over. June 1st affects it. Just because it is easy to do in February and March doesn't mean it's easy to do in June. If it is please provide some examples.

Yes it's circular logic to say that Barbre was taking LG snaps and Mathis was cut, therefore Mathis was cut because Barbre was taking LG snaps. If Mathis was there and got beat out then and only then is your logic actually logical.

 

[deerpathdave]

After June 1st, the team has now lost a year to spread the SB out over. June 1st affects it. Just because it is easy to do in February and March doesn't mean it's easy to do in June. If it is please provide some examples.

Yes it's circular logic to say that Barbre was taking LG snaps and Mathis was cut, therefore Mathis was cut because Barbre was taking LG snaps. If Mathis was there and got beat out then and only then is your logic actually logical.

Its the same deal just different contract years. Your logic as described Is circular. Mine was straightforward. Player shows up performs well wins job over player that doesn't show up. Why is that so hard to understand?