duh bengals frunt orfice is smart George!

[CrashDavisSports]

1) I can get in line with the coordinators. If there's anything you like about Marvin, you're a homer.

2) Whoopdee damn doo, we're rebuilding again. That is not a positive nor a negative. It just is what it is. Our previous run with Carson/Chad et. al failed. Now we're trying again. Show me something before I commend you for it.

3) Struggling to find a 3rd thing? This is exactly what I said you'd commend them for. Sorry not buying it. Having 5 less scouts than the rest of the league instead of 6 less scouts is nothing to celebrate. EVERY decent owner in the league allows the scouting department do their job and "influence the draft". I am not going to give credit to Brown or the organization for being 20 years behind the norm.

By my count, you still have 2 more to name.

No I do not. You will be able to tear anything down negative if you tried. I named my three, now you name three things you are proud of this team about. Come on, sack up and say something good about our team. Just for comparison purposes..I will name three things I dislike about this team just so you can't say I didn't play your game first.

1) I hate the fact that Mike Brown is so fucking cheap with his mega butt load of money. He can't build a fucking practice bubble for the team to make everyone happier, he can't sign a veteran FA worth some coin to try and make this team better now and take that freaking risk. He is a cheap skate and that is not going to change anytime in the near future. Hopefully he at least antes up to keep Dalton, Green and Atkins.

2) We have one of the worst freaking medical staffs in football. We can never get the honest truth about injuries and get coddled along saying soon, soon, and then eventually it is a season ender even though it was only supposed to take 2 to 3 weeks. I am pretty sure we fired that medical staff with the Bryant debacle, but the communication has not improved...which leads me to my 3rd point...

3) Marvin Lewis has eventually got to go. I am tired of his freaking press conferences, how he never says anything, he never opens up, he is demeaning and on top of being a complete asshat, is not that good of a freaking head coach. He is a terrible game manager, he is hard headed and sticks with something too long even if it is clearly not working and he is not creative. My hope is someday Jay Gruden gets the head coaching job, as I like teh way he is with the press, the public, his ability to be forthcoming on certain subjects regarding the team, he can joke around and be funny unlike Marvin who trys to jokoe around and everyone under their breath saying, "Dickhead."

Okay, 3 good things Flamingay.

 

[flamingrey]

1) Coordinators
2) Mike Brown is getting older by the day
3) We spend a lot of money...just not relative to every other team

LOL at one of your dislikes being Marvin's PRESS CONFERENCES. Freakin' homer.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

1) Coordinators
2) Mike Brown is getting older by the day
3) We spend a lot of money...just not relative to every other team

LOL at one of your dislikes being Marvin's PRESS CONFERENCES. Freakin' homer.

What in the F are you talking about. There is almost NOTHING I like about Marvin Lewis. I was just pointing out how much of a dick he is, and that he is not that likeable of a coach in the public. I think you call me a homer just to try and get under my skin, because you have zero relavence to call me one regarding my opinion on Lewis.

My dislike was not Marvin Lewis press conferences, my dislike was MARVIN LEWIS!

 

[flamingrey]

You're actually correct. I didn't read passed the first 2 sentences of the Marvin comment, so didn't catch all that. HOWEVER, your comment that he is "not that good" is still laughable. He's terrible in every aspect of coaching.

 

[Cincyfan78]

You're actually correct. I didn't read passed the first 2 sentences of the Marvin comment, so didn't catch all that. HOWEVER, your comment that he is "not that good" is still laughable. He's terrible in every aspect of coaching.

I will disagree with terrible.


He's mediocre. He's been able to take this franchise to the playoffs.

Coslet was terrible. Shula was abysmal and a joke. Dick L simply failed, but is still a hell of a D-cord.

Compared to these guys...Lewis is HOF!


Now, I get what you are coming from...so don't get me wrong. Lewis leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to coaching. But, he has been able to win, and has been able to put together some impressive teams. So, he does deserve at least a little bit of credit.

 

[Servo]

I will disagree with terrible.


He's mediocre. He's been able to take this franchise to the playoffs.

Coslet was terrible. Shula was abysmal and a joke. Dick L simply failed, but is still a hell of a D-cord.

Compared to these guys...Lewis is HOF!


Now, I get what you are coming from...so don't get me wrong. Lewis leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to coaching. But, he has been able to win, and has been able to put together some impressive teams. So, he does deserve at least a little bit of credit.

Yup, not the best coach. Not the worst. Right in the middle. Last year we got to see some very poorly coached teams if you want a comparison (remember the Rams?)

 

[flamingrey]

I will disagree with terrible.


He's mediocre. He's been able to take this franchise to the playoffs.

Coslet was terrible. Shula was abysmal and a joke. Dick L simply failed, but is still a hell of a D-cord.

Compared to these guys...Lewis is HOF!


Now, I get what you are coming from...so don't get me wrong. Lewis leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to coaching. But, he has been able to win, and has been able to put together some impressive teams. So, he does deserve at least a little bit of credit.

The only difference between him and the other guys you mentioned is Marvin has had the luck of having some decent talent on his squads. Give Marvin the same roster as those other guys and he'd also be more widely known as "terrible", "abysmal", "joke", and "failure".

 

[Cincyfan78]

The only difference between him and the other guys you mentioned is Marvin has had the luck of having some decent talent on his squads. Give Marvin the same roster as those other guys and he'd also be more widely known as "terrible", "abysmal", "joke", and "failure".

You could say that about a lot of coaches. I'm not sure that many other coaches would have been able to compete with any of the rosters the bengals had in the 90's.....

Getting the talent there does fall on the coaching. While it is true Lewis would have had a rough go with the 90's roster....give him credit for getting more talen on the team. Getting an owner to do things (if not completely, at least a little) differently. He gets less from his owner than any other coach in the league, and still is able to put out a product that, while not great by any means, at least competes more often than not to be relavent since he's been here.

I'm not saying he's in the top 10 of best coaches ever. But, considering all the coaches this franchise has chewed up and spit out over the past 20+ years...the fact that he's been able to come in and win does say something.

 

[Servo]

I think you gotta give Marv some credit for the talent. Nobody know but it's assumed that he has a pretty big role in the evaluating and drafting of these guys. The past three drafts have been very good.

 

[flamingrey]

Carson landed in his lap as did AJ Green. Dalton was Gruden's choice. Outside of the past 2 drafts (both of which the jury is still out), I'm not sure which "talent" I'm supposed to credit Marvin for.

If we're going to compare Marvin to previous Bengal's coaches, EVERYTHING should be factored - including rosters - to get it as close to an apples-apples comparison.

When I judge a coach, I judge it based on what I see on the field. Decisions, management, game plan especially in the 1st and 3rd quarters, how much he gets out of the players, etc.

I'd give him an F in just about every category.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Carson landed in his lap as did AJ Green. Dalton was Gruden's choice. Outside of the past 2 drafts (both of which the jury is still out), I'm not sure which "talent" I'm supposed to credit Marvin for.

If we're going to compare Marvin to previous Bengal's coaches, EVERYTHING should be factored - including rosters - to get it as close to an apples-apples comparison.

When I judge a coach, I judge it based on what I see on the field. Decisions, management, game plan especially in the 1st and 3rd quarters, how much he gets out of the players, etc.

I'd give him an F in just about every category.

Wouldn't Marvin be responsible for his own roster though, as the other idiot coaches were responsible for putting together their rosters?

 

[flamingrey]

Not when you inherit a good roster. A coaches job is to coach.

 

[Servo]

Not in Cincinnati. A coaches responsibility goes far beyond the X's and O's. In Marv's case he also has to serve as scout and also guidance counselor for many. Plus, 03 was Marv's first draft. He drafted Carson and Steinbach with his first two picks. So he inherited a team with the #1 overall pick (worst record in the league) and they went 8-8 that year I believe. Plus, over the past three years whomever is calling the shots on draft day is building a very legit roster.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Carson landed in his lap as did AJ Green. Dalton was Gruden's choice. Outside of the past 2 drafts (both of which the jury is still out), I'm not sure which "talent" I'm supposed to credit Marvin for.

If we're going to compare Marvin to previous Bengal's coaches, EVERYTHING should be factored - including rosters - to get it as close to an apples-apples comparison.

When I judge a coach, I judge it based on what I see on the field. Decisions, management, game plan especially in the 1st and 3rd quarters, how much he gets out of the players, etc.

I'd give him an F in just about every category.

You can give him any grade you like. It's your opinion. But the facts are the facts. He's won here. He's put together some good teams. He's been to the playoffs.

I mean, isn't that what coaches are ultimately graded on? His in game management leaves a LOT to be desired. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this, but when you look at the WHOLE picture; from putting the team, winning, playoffs (Though yet to win a game), and consider he's probably doing it with less help than just about every other NFL team out there....he's done a good job.

Now, do I wish it were better? Duh. Like I said...his game management skills are pretty bad, and I would rate him near the bottom of NFL coaches. But in terms of total package...he's been able to win where no one thought it was possible. That's not bad.

 

[flamingrey]

You can give him any grade you like. It's your opinion. But the facts are the facts. He's won here. He's put together some good teams. He's been to the playoffs.

I mean, isn't that what coaches are ultimately graded on? His in game management leaves a LOT to be desired. I don't think anyone disagrees with you on this, but when you look at the WHOLE picture; from putting the team, winning, playoffs (Though yet to win a game), and consider he's probably doing it with less help than just about every other NFL team out there....he's done a good job.

Now, do I wish it were better? Duh. Like I said...his game management skills are pretty bad, and I would rate him near the bottom of NFL coaches. But in terms of total package...he's been able to win where no one thought it was possible. That's not bad.

Mike Brown is also a good owner/GM now. Facts are the facts (of course in your eyes, only looked at in a vacuum). He's put together a solid team and they've been to the playoffs twice out of the last 3 years. There's nothing else to consider. His title is GM and he gets credit for it.

[/sarcasm]

Carson carried this team to the playoffs. Zimmer carried this team to the playoffs. Gruden has helped carry this team to the playoffs. Several times the schedule has been VERY generous to Marvin. Any success the team has had has been despite Marvin.

As a COACH, Marvin is terrible. He has been no better than the guys that have preceeded him (you guys are really undervaluing having a decent QB behind center). His coaching over the last 8 years has screamed this. Though I guess a good argument can be made that he'd make a better GM and/or director of scouting than the coaches that have preceded him.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Mike Brown is also a good owner/GM now. Facts are the facts (of course in your eyes, only looked at in a vacuum). He's put together a solid team and they've been to the playoffs twice out of the last 3 years. There's nothing else to consider. His title is GM and he gets credit for it.

[/sarcasm]

Carson carried this team to the playoffs. Zimmer carried this team to the playoffs. Gruden has helped carry this team to the playoffs. Several times the schedule has been VERY generous to Marvin. Any success the team has had has been despite Marvin.

As a COACH, Marvin is terrible. He has been no better than the guys that have preceeded him (you guys are really undervaluing having a decent QB behind center). His coaching over the last 8 years has screamed this. Though I guess a good argument can be made that he'd make a better GM and/or director of scouting than the coaches that have preceded him.

Just as a note, Mike Brown was awarded GM of the year (by he's peers), last year, was he not? Just saying.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Mike Brown is also a good owner/GM now. Facts are the facts (of course in your eyes, only looked at in a vacuum). He's put together a solid team and they've been to the playoffs twice out of the last 3 years. There's nothing else to consider. His title is GM and he gets credit for it.

[/sarcasm]

Carson carried this team to the playoffs. Zimmer carried this team to the playoffs. Gruden has helped carry this team to the playoffs. Several times the schedule has been VERY generous to Marvin. Any success the team has had has been despite Marvin.

As a COACH, Marvin is terrible. He has been no better than the guys that have preceeded him (you guys are really undervaluing having a decent QB behind center). His coaching over the last 8 years has screamed this. Though I guess a good argument can be made that he'd make a better GM and/or director of scouting than the coaches that have preceded him.

The bottom line here is you are soley basing ML's career here on his in game ability to coach, which leaves a LOT to be desired, as I've already stated several times.

However, when evaluating anyone (player, manager, coach, GM), you never look at just one aspect of that person's ability. He has hired good coaches to help him. That is what good head coaches do. He's helped put together some really good teams. He's won here with the same set of rules that those before him had...same owner. The schedule flux's every year. There were some gimme's in the 90's, but those guys were unable to take advantage.

Say what you want, you have that right to your opinion, but at least be honest that your total disdain for ML clouds your judgement when trying to be objective with this subject.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Just as a note, Mike Brown was awarded GM of the year (by he's peers), last year, was he not? Just saying.

Indeed. I'm pretty sure that's why we missed winter this year. The world didn't know how to react....LOL

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The bottom line here is you are soley basing ML's career here on his in game ability to coach, which leaves a LOT to be desired, as I've already stated several times.

However, when evaluating anyone (player, manager, coach, GM), you never look at just one aspect of that person's ability. He has hired good coaches to help him. That is what good head coaches do. He's helped put together some really good teams. He's won here with the same set of rules that those before him had...same owner. The schedule flux's every year. There were some gimme's in the 90's, but those guys were unable to take advantage.

Say what you want, you have that right to your opinion, but at least be honest that your total disdain for ML clouds your judgement when trying to be objective with this subject.

He can't do that, otherwise he would have to actually admit he is wrong about being able to be objective or be a "realist" (calling it how it is). Good luck with that Cincy78. You will get nothing but venom and spue back in a response, so prepare. There will not be one positive remark to your statement.

 

[flamingrey]

Just as a note, Mike Brown was awarded GM of the year (by he's peers), last year, was he not? Just saying.

Ah, so you'd like to give the credit to Brownie boy when the conversation is about him and Marvin when the conversation is about him....anyone else on the list?

Good to know.