Doug Mathis

[tzill]

Given that the Giants SP prospects are ranked as follows:

1. Wheeler
2. Tanner
3. Surkamp

Peep this guy:

Doug Mathis Statistics Pitching | FanGraphs Baseball

Turns 28 next week; a couple of stints in the majors as a reliever but the Rangers wanted him to be a SP. He flamed out in Texas' org and I believe we either got him Rule V or they DFA'd him. So far, doing very well (5 QS in a row, avg PQS in those starts of 4.4) in AAA. Should (gasp!) anything happen to one of our starters, I say he's the seventh starter (after Zito).

Worth watching anyway.

 

[Heathbar012]

Interesting. Seventh starters can be great throw-ins to complete trades as well.

The 1.31 WHIP is decent when you factor in the 7.52 K/9 and 3.42 ERA. He leaves those guys on base.

How much of a factor do you think good-looking, most-likely unsustainable stats are for getting a trade done? Obviously, a GM is looking for the best way to make their team better, so they're looking for sustainable improvement. I've never seen Mathis pitch so I have no opinion if he can actually maintain these numbers, but it made me curious because, as a fan, I would be happy with my team's GM for grabbing this guy as a throw-in. Does possible fan acceptance of a trade factor into a GM's decision in the slightest? Does he accept taking back the guy with some decent stats that he is less optimistic can maintain them rather than pushing for a guy that both sides know have more potential (especially since that ends up costing more prospects)? Is it worth the short term fan acceptance? I guess it boils down to how much you think public opinion shapes the safety of a GM's job. More so in New York than Kansas City, I'm assuming, but in general, what do you think the mind-set of a GM about a player like Mathis is in a deal? Is this too much thought over a throw-in?

 

[tzill]

Interesting. Seventh starters can be great throw-ins to complete trades as well.

The 1.31 WHIP is decent when you factor in the 7.52 K/9 and 3.42 ERA. He leaves those guys on base.

How much of a factor do you think good-looking, most-likely unsustainable stats are for getting a trade done? Obviously, a GM is looking for the best way to make their team better, so they're looking for sustainable improvement. I've never seen Mathis pitch so I have no opinion if he can actually maintain these numbers, but it made me curious because, as a fan, I would be happy with my team's GM for grabbing this guy as a throw-in. Does possible fan acceptance of a trade factor into a GM's decision in the slightest? Does he accept taking back the guy with some decent stats that he is less optimistic can maintain them rather than pushing for a guy that both sides know have more potential (especially since that ends up costing more prospects)? Is it worth the short term fan acceptance? I guess it boils down to how much you think public opinion shapes the safety of a GM's job. More so in New York than Kansas City, I'm assuming, but in general, what do you think the mind-set of a GM about a player like Mathis is in a deal? Is this too much thought over a throw-in?

I think GMs do consider fan reaction to moves they are contemplating. The degree to which they weigh this varies from GM to GM and from trade to trade. In general, I think Sabes falls on the "let the fans react however they'd like; I've got a team to run" side of the spectrum.

That aside, I'd bet a steak dinner that 99% of Giants fans have no idea who Mathis is. The average fan would have trouble naming 10 players on the ML club. Maybe 10% could name 20. Once you get into the minors and obscure journeymen like Mathis there just aren't many who even care to follow at that level of detail. So, to answer your question: I think how much a GM values someone like Mathis as a trade chip depends upon where his 25 and 40 man rosters are at and how deep his organizational SP is. He probably has more value to a team that MIGHT contend (i.e. Arizona) than a team that will not (i.e. Minnesota). He'd also have more value to a team that needs a sixth starter but has young guys a year or two away, and less value to a team that needs it's rotation spots in AAA b/c it has guys who are close.

Good question though.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think GMs do consider fan reaction to moves they are contemplating. The degree to which they weigh this varies from GM to GM and from trade to trade. In general, I think Sabes falls on the "let the fans react however they'd like; I've got a team to run" side of the spectrum.

That aside, I'd bet a steak dinner that 99% of Giants fans have no idea who Mathis is. The average fan would have trouble naming 10 players on the ML club. Maybe 10% could name 20. Once you get into the minors and obscure journeymen like Mathis there just aren't many who even care to follow at that level of detail. So, to answer your question: I think how much a GM values someone like Mathis as a trade chip depends upon where his 25 and 40 man rosters are at and how deep his organizational SP is. He probably has more value to a team that MIGHT contend (i.e. Arizona) than a team that will not (i.e. Minnesota). He'd also have more value to a team that needs a sixth starter but has young guys a year or two away, and less value to a team that needs it's rotation spots in AAA b/c it has guys who are close.

Good question though.

Sounds like he is more valuable to the Giants given that reasoned response. Though, I guess Zito is the sixth starter now, I have no problem with a 28-year-old guy jumping him in the "rotation." Is it still a rotation when you're talking about the guys that will only pitch if there are injuries? Also, if Mathis were coming over to SF as a throw-in, how many of the 99% of Giants fans that don't know who he is (maybe closer to 99.5%, if he were with another org) do you think would look at his stats and be happy with Sabes for grabbing what looks like a decent throw-in? I guess that depends more on who the focal point of the trade was. Even with the most die-hard fans, rarely does the throw-in form the public opinion on a trade (at least immediately, anyway). So... never mind?

 

[tzill]

Sounds like he is more valuable to the Giants given that reasoned response. Though, I guess Zito is the sixth starter now, I have no problem with a 28-year-old guy jumping him in the "rotation." Is it still a rotation when you're talking about the guys that will only pitch if there are injuries? Also, if Mathis were coming over to SF as a throw-in, how many of the 99% of Giants fans that don't know who he is (maybe closer to 99.5%, if he were with another org) do you think would look at his stats and be happy with Sabes for grabbing what looks like a decent throw-in? I guess that depends more on who the focal point of the trade was. Even with the most die-hard fans, rarely does the throw-in form the public opinion on a trade (at least immediately, anyway). So... never mind?

I think the vast majority of fans who would care to comment on a 28 yo minor league pitcher coming over to the Giants would break out the old "Sabean sucks and this is proof" rant.

However, I doubt very many would comment at all. You have to hand it to the pantshatters -- they're consistently commenting.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think the vast majority of fans who would care to comment on a 28 yo minor league pitcher coming over to the Giants would break out the old "Sabean sucks and this is proof" rant.

However, I doubt very many would comment at all. You have to hand it to the pantshatters -- they're consistently commenting.

To paraphrase Rodney Dangerfield, "(They seem) to care. About what, I have no idea."

 

[calsnowskier]

I think most of the 99%ers would see "... for a minor leaguer" and stop there, with 0 analysis.

When Durham was dealt, they read "for 2 minor leaguers" and thought "OK, decent deal". When they saw that we got Franchez for "a minor leaguer", they thought "GREAT DEAL".

The average fans sees it as a "Major Leaguer or nothing" equation.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think most of the 99%ers would see "... for a minor leaguer" and stop there, with 0 analysis.

When Durham was dealt, they read "for 2 minor leaguers" and thought "OK, decent deal". When they saw that we got Franchez for "a minor leaguer", they thought "GREAT DEAL".

The average fans sees it as a "Major Leaguer or nothing" equation.

I don't know if I'd enjoy or hate if more people were as "fanatical" as me about sports. You guys?

 

[tzill]

I don't care for "fanaticism." In general, it leads to idiots like Marcus. I prefer avid fans who can intelligently discuss the game.

 

[Heathbar012]

I don't care for "fanaticism." In general, it leads to idiots like Marcus. I prefer avid fans who can intelligently discuss the game.

+1. That's why I went with the quotes (lack of a better term?). Maybe I should have said I don't know how I'd feel if more people watched and cared about as many sporting events as I do. There are probably more of those people than I think, but far less that take the time to memorize some and analyze more stats and situations.