Do we want Manning to return?

[Duffman]

I'm pretty sure this means Manning's retiring now that all the coaches are gone. Even if he gets 100% healthy I can't see him wanting to learn a brand new system again.

Hell Manning may have already told Elway he's gone and so Elway is already moving on.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I had a severe thigh bruise (not as bad as Manning had) and in 20 years of playing ball that was the only injury that forced me to miss games. It was very very painful.

If Manning wants to come back, absolutely. He needs some help on that O-Line and a little more play calling imagination. He got beat up this year, you keep him upright and he's still one of the best QB's in the league.

 

[Ksfnslayer]

Actually, it would not kill us in cap space. It would free up around $16.5M in cap space according to overthecap.com. But he'd have to be cut before March 9th or else his salary for the season is fully guaranteed.

Personally, I'd like to see him go. It's been a nice run. It was nice to see another Super Bowl even though it was awful, but he's not the future. I saw nothing from Manning in the 2nd half of the year that says he's going to win one for us. He couldn't make the throws today against a lesser secondary and very little pressure. The biggest problem with keeping Manning, like I've stated already, is the need to bring in a coach experienced with winning. Otherwise it's too much to ask a new coach to win a Super Bowl.

Needless to say, I'm on the Fire Fox bandwagon. Have been for a bit.

I don't see anything wrong with Fox and I don't think he has been able to do what he wanted with the team anyway. He was probably 3rd in command and wanted to leave for that reason. I don't think you will find a better coach but he was probably going against the grain with Peyton and Elway.

 

[notorious98]

I don't see anything wrong with Fox and I don't think he has been able to do what he wanted with the team anyway. He was probably 3rd in command and wanted to leave for that reason. I don't think you will find a better coach but he was probably going against the grain with Peyton and Elway.

You mean being overly conservative? "Mutually parting ways" was teamspeak for "we fired him, but we'll say we didn't fire him". Fox still had time left on his contract and Denver could have just as easily fired him. Why wouldn't Fox choose the lesser of two evils? Let's be real. Elway shitcanned Fox. The fact that the rest of the coaching staff was also basically let go should be a clear indication of this.

I'll give you a simple reason why Fox sucks. 2nd half kickoff in the Super Bowl. Matt Prater is kicking who has a huge leg that regularly boots balls behind the endzone. He decides to kick it short to keep Harvin from returning it for a TD and Harvin does just that. Fox calls his games being afraid. When he faked a punt earlier this season, I thought he had turned a leaf. He hadn't. If he had, he would have told Del Rio that his game plan wasn't working and he needed to start blitzing. He didn't. Completely incapable of making adjustments at halftime and plays games not to lose. If you think that's good, I'll trade you for Carroll.

 

[cdumler7]

I don't see anything wrong with Fox and I don't think he has been able to do what he wanted with the team anyway. He was probably 3rd in command and wanted to leave for that reason. I don't think you will find a better coach but he was probably going against the grain with Peyton and Elway.

It wasn't just Manning and Elway he was having problems with though. Many of the offensive players had issues with him. Heck there are reports now that he and Adam Gase did not get along especially this past year. I think you are right in there was a bit of a power struggle going on which lead to pretty inconsistent play especially by the offense. I don't think Fox is a bad coach by any means but I also don't think he knew how to handle a team with such a superstar like that of Manning. There were many times it felt like we had this Lamborghini for an offense and yet Fox wanted to drive it 20 mph the whole season.

Now as to the Manning returning thing. I'm still torn. I love the idea of what we could do with that extra $16 million. Say we bring in Teryl Austin as our HC. I know this name is going to be one that might make you cringe but that could get us Suh. I think Knighton is just about gone to Oakland at this point. We will need a dominating DT and getting well maybe the best one in football to team up with Ware and Von sounds pretty darn good to me. I mean just watching that Colts game we had 0 pressure up the middle most of the game. All teams continue to have to do is push Von and Ware to the outside and let the quarterback step up. The only guy that seems to get much pressure up the middle anymore is that of Malik but he just can't do it all by himself. So again that $15-16 million in extra cap space helps us to sign our own guys but also could help us make that big splash in a guy like Suh. I know he comes with a ton of baggage but hey we all (I think) love Von and I would say he has more baggage than that of Suh.

 

[randymon]

It wasn't just Manning and Elway he was having problems with though. Many of the offensive players had issues with him. Heck there are reports now that he and Adam Gase did not get along especially this past year. I think you are right in there was a bit of a power struggle going on which lead to pretty inconsistent play especially by the offense. I don't think Fox is a bad coach by any means but I also don't think he knew how to handle a team with such a superstar like that of Manning. There were many times it felt like we had this Lamborghini for an offense and yet Fox wanted to drive it 20 mph the whole season.

Now as to the Manning returning thing. I'm still torn. I love the idea of what we could do with that extra $16 million. Say we bring in Teryl Austin as our HC. I know this name is going to be one that might make you cringe but that could get us Suh. I think Knighton is just about gone to Oakland at this point. We will need a dominating DT and getting well maybe the best one in football to team up with Ware and Von sounds pretty darn good to me. I mean just watching that Colts game we had 0 pressure up the middle most of the game. All teams continue to have to do is push Von and Ware to the outside and let the quarterback step up. The only guy that seems to get much pressure up the middle anymore is that of Malik but he just can't do it all by himself. So again that $15-16 million in extra cap space helps us to sign our own guys but also could help us make that big splash in a guy like Suh. I know he comes with a ton of baggage but hey we all (I think) love Von and I would say he has more baggage than that of Suh.

Yeah he also just got fined 300 grand for his weight problem. Doesn`t sound like their trying to get on his good side before contract negotiations does it. And, your right about lack of push up middle with him. He seemed to show up only vs lesser competition and even then, very sporadically. He was def a factor in plugging up running lanes but as far as his pass rush and pressure, very spotty at best. That is a tough position to find a guy that can fill that spot for sure. I would take Suh and carry all his baggage for him if Denver could somehow land him.

 

[notorious98]

Yeah he also just got fined 300 grand for his weight problem. Doesn`t sound like their trying to get on his good side before contract negotiations does it. And, your right about lack of push up middle with him. He seemed to show up only vs lesser competition and even then, very sporadically. He was def a factor in plugging up running lanes but as far as his pass rush and pressure, very spotty at best. That is a tough position to find a guy that can fill that spot for sure. I would take Suh and carry all his baggage for him if Denver could somehow land him.

If they get Austin, it could happen.

 

[Southieinnc]

I don't envy Denver's decisions to be made this year.
Manning comes back great you will be wondering if he gets worn down at the end - or even sooner.
If you let him go - you are arguably letting the GOAT to leave.
When Montana moved on he was nothing after that. Was it because he was done or was it because he had to adapt to new system???? No easy decisions.....

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I'm going to be as respectful to my fellow Bronco Nation-ers but...... Holy cow, I hope it's just raw emotion concerning people wanting Manning to leave.

He was one of the best if not the best QB's the first half of the season. Did he get "old" in the second half of the season? No, he got beat up, in fact he got abliterated thanks to the interior O-line. It started in the NE game then the Rams and the Chargers. Even a great QB will play poorly when they are getting hit hard multiple times a game. To be honest I think it's silly not to want him back, and a little, what have you done for me lately (or more accurately) what have you done for me in the last 8 games. I would bet the farm that Elway and Kubiak would love to have Manning back for a season or two. I also believe that Manning will not want to go out like that unless he physically can't do it anymore.

For crying out loud, the guy played hurt. not injured but hurt. He had a torn quad, one of the most painful injuries, playing on one leg and instead of praising his toughness some people are wanting to dump him. I don't get it.

 

[iknowftbll]

I'm going to be as respectful to my fellow Bronco Nation-ers but...... Holy cow, I hope it's just raw emotion concerning people wanting Manning to leave.

He was one of the best if not the best QB's the first half of the season. Did he get "old" in the second half of the season? No, he got beat up, in fact he got abliterated thanks to the interior O-line. It started in the NE game then the Rams and the Chargers. Even a great QB will play poorly when they are getting hit hard multiple times a game. To be honest I think it's silly not to want him back, and a little, what have you done for me lately (or more accurately) what have you done for me in the last 8 games. I would bet the farm that Elway and Kubiak would love to have Manning back for a season or two. I also believe that Manning will not want to go out like that unless he physically can't do it anymore.

For crying out loud, the guy played hurt. not injured but hurt. He had a torn quad, one of the most painful injuries, playing on one leg and instead of praising his toughness some people are wanting to dump him. I don't get it.

Not only that, but Manning greatly hastened the Broncos return to football relevancy. Thank about it. Even if Manning calls it quits, one cannot rightly say his time in Denver was a failure. Manning is a big part of why a lot of free agents chose to come to Denver. A lot of those guys are still going to be around after Manning leaves, and that is the difference between slowly building a defense from the 2010 levels to in a matter of years having a defense that is capable of keeping its offense in games. That will be huge in the first post-Manning years, and Manning will have had a huge impact on it.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

Not only that, but Manning greatly hastened the Broncos return to football relevancy. Thank about it. Even if Manning calls it quits, one cannot rightly say his time in Denver was a failure. Manning is a big part of why a lot of free agents chose to come to Denver. A lot of those guys are still going to be around after Manning leaves, and that is the difference between slowly building a defense from the 2010 levels to in a matter of years having a defense that is capable of keeping its offense in games. That will be huge in the first post-Manning years, and Manning will have had a huge impact on it.

 

[notorious98]

Not only that, but Manning greatly hastened the Broncos return to football relevancy. Thank about it. Even if Manning calls it quits, one cannot rightly say his time in Denver was a failure. Manning is a big part of why a lot of free agents chose to come to Denver. A lot of those guys are still going to be around after Manning leaves, and that is the difference between slowly building a defense from the 2010 levels to in a matter of years having a defense that is capable of keeping its offense in games. That will be huge in the first post-Manning years, and Manning will have had a huge impact on it.

I'll be honest here, but some of that is questionable. I don't know how long Talib will be a Bronco. If Manning retires, Ware won't be around for year 3. Ward will probably stay and who knows with Knighton, but Del Rio probably had more to do with that deal. Other than that, though, what guy wasn't drafted, or signed as a rookie free agent, by Denver? Roby, Webster, Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, Moore (if he's resigned), Irving (same deal), Trevathan, Williams, Harris Jr. Those were all guys that had nothing to do with Manning. And, if I recall correctly, Denver's defense was a top 5 unit in 2012 with a bunch of guys who also had nothing to do with Manning. If you want to argue that the offense is that way, that's questionable. Maybe Vazquez and Welker? Sanders' agent already said that if the Patriots had offered Sanders the same deal that the Broncos did, he would have been a Patriot since he visited there first.

Manning made Denver relevant when it came to wins and putting up offensive stats. His play helped them to a Super Bowl. But I sincerely question the impact that his presence had on signing anybody that will be here for the long term.

 

[iknowftbll]

I'll be honest here, but some of that is questionable. I don't know how long Talib will be a Bronco. If Manning retires, Ware won't be around for year 3. Ward will probably stay and who knows with Knighton, but Del Rio probably had more to do with that deal. Other than that, though, what guy wasn't drafted, or signed as a rookie free agent, by Denver? Roby, Webster, Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, Moore (if he's resigned), Irving (same deal), Trevathan, Williams, Harris Jr. Those were all guys that had nothing to do with Manning. And, if I recall correctly, Denver's defense was a top 5 unit in 2012 with a bunch of guys who also had nothing to do with Manning. If you want to argue that the offense is that way, that's questionable. Maybe Vazquez and Welker? Sanders' agent already said that if the Patriots had offered Sanders the same deal that the Broncos did, he would have been a Patriot since he visited there first.

Manning made Denver relevant when it came to wins and putting up offensive stats. His play helped them to a Super Bowl. But I sincerely question the impact that his presence had on signing anybody that will be here for the long term.

Probably a fair argument, but we won't know for another year or two. At this point I'm content to welcome in Kubiak as the new HC and see what Manning decides. I'll be happy either way. If Manning is back you can pretty much pencil in the Broncos for 11-5. How they perform in the playoffs is the question, and with a new coaching staff maybe we'd finally see them get over the hump. If Manning leaves we are full speed ahead into the future of this team. We will likely see a regression in this team, though I would not expect them to drop off the edge of the world the way many outside of Broncos country does.

 

[notorious98]

Probably a fair argument, but we won't know for another year or two. At this point I'm content to welcome in Kubiak as the new HC and see what Manning decides. I'll be happy either way. If Manning is back you can pretty much pencil in the Broncos for 11-5. How they perform in the playoffs is the question, and with a new coaching staff maybe we'd finally see them get over the hump. If Manning leaves we are full speed ahead into the future of this team. We will likely see a regression in this team, though I would not expect them to drop off the edge of the world the way many outside of Broncos country does.

This is what I tell everybody. As long as Manning is our QB, the season doesn't really start until the playoffs. The only thing I learn during the regular season is how well the team faces adversity. If Manning retires, the regular season will be extremely important again, especially in a pretty tough division.

But at least the Raiders have Jack Del Rio as their coach. That should mean a few more years of mediocre/terrible football outta Oakland.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

It's understandable that Manning has playoff questions and I think to a degree it's a fair criticism. I do wonder how would we view Manning if R. Moore just knocked the ball down V the Ravens? Of course the next question would be would they have won anymore games after that?

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

From Jeff Legwold;

Been around both for some time...Manning would want to play for Kubiak ...Manning's return based primarily on health, ability to compete.

 

[boltfan72]

Hey guys, Charger fan here. Obviously I'd love to see Manning hang it up. But I'm curious, do you guys think seeing Brady hoist a trophy in two weeks and a 4th ring would weigh on his decision? I get the idea he doesn't want to go down as the 2nd best QB of his time.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

Hey guys, Charger fan here. Obviously I'd love to see Manning hang it up. But I'm curious, do you guys think seeing Brady hoist a trophy in two weeks and a 4th ring would weigh on his decision? I get the idea he doesn't want to go down as the 2nd best QB of his time.

You bring up some good points boltfan.

1st in the spirit of you don't know what you've got till it's gone, you would hear a collective cheer around the AFC West and the AFC as a whole if Manning hangs em up. Again, I don't understand the Broncos fans that want him gone.

2nd, while it's an interesting thought about his competitiveness with Brady I don't think that will drive him. I think if he feels he can compete and is healthy he will be back, if not he won't.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Hey guys, Charger fan here. Obviously I'd love to see Manning hang it up. But I'm curious, do you guys think seeing Brady hoist a trophy in two weeks and a 4th ring would weigh on his decision? I get the idea he doesn't want to go down as the 2nd best QB of his time.

I think not having more rings regardless of the number Brady has is waying on him. If Manning thinks he can compete for a SB ring, he plays.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I think not having more rings regardless of the number Brady has is waying on him. If Manning thinks he can compete for a SB ring, he plays.

I agree. As you said I don't think Brady's rings are a driving force for him but I do think winning another one is important to Manning.