District Court Judge Upholds Trademark Trial And Appeal Board's Ruling Finding REDSKINS Disparaging

[j_y19]

Another point. You stated earlier that any descriptor used to describe a group of people is problematic (I'm paraphrasing). Where does it stop? Can I use the term Redheads? Blondes? Are you offended when someone describes you as White (Assuming you are.....maybe be a dumb assumption, sorry). At what point does a descriptor not become offensive and it is just a descriptor?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

We should not use the term redhead right after we killed thousands of redheads, take their land, force them on to reservations and play a role in a huge number of Red Headed Americans facing poverty. NAs are an oppressed group, I don't think that's a secret. Seems like we should be a bit more sensitive to those who feel this is insulting. Again IMO their pain is stronger than the "pride" other NA's feel. Seems to me that group will get over a name change easier than the offended group will get over being offended.

If you don't like the guy I quoted that's fine, I admit to not knowing his history. But it won't take me long to find another quote. I post with a guy on KFFL whose sister works with a large group of NAs. She was hosting a cookout for them and others. He showed up wearing Redskins gear and she pulled him aside and said this was a major problem

Seems to me a team jersey should not cause such a reaction if there is no issue.

 

[j_y19]

We should not use the term redhead right after we killed thousands of redheads, take their land, force them on to reservations and play a role in a huge number of Red Headed Americans facing poverty. NAs are an oppressed group, I don't think that's a secret. Seems like we should be a bit more sensitive to those who feel this is insulting. Again IMO their pain is stronger than the "pride" other NA's feel. Seems to me that group will get over a name change easier than the offended group will get over being offended.

If you don't like the guy I quoted that's fine, I admit to not knowing his history. But it won't take me long to find another quote. I post with a guy on KFFL whose sister works with a large group of NAs. She was hosting a cookout for them and others. He showed up wearing Redskins gear and she pulled him aside and said this was a major problem

Seems to me a team jersey should not cause such a reaction if there is no issue.

Right after???

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Right after???

That's all you took from my post? OK 200 years after. It doesn't change the point.

 

[j_y19]

That's all you took from my post? OK 200 years after. It doesn't change the point.

No. I also took that you are concerned with being politically correct, which is fine. Just don't push your concerns on those that disagree (which I don't think you are, but others of your like mind are).

 

[Sharkinva]

That's all you took from my post? OK 200 years after. It doesn't change the point.

Actually it does change the point. Its no more silly than me blaming every white man in America TODAY, for slavery. OR blaming every Christian for what went on during the crusades. Again IM not telling them they have no right to be upset. But I really think this has become a case of a small group being upset, and CONVINCING others they should be just as upset. I agree that we should be accepting and to a point understanding of others feelings. But let me ask you, If I came to you with a proposal that you change your name because it offends me and every one in my family. It hurts my feelings every time I hear that name because i feel it symbolizes hate and it really never should be uttered again... now YOU personally never did anything to me, but a guy with your name was a very bad man..... would you change your name?? Never mind that for the past 50 years every guy that HAS had the same name was a model citizen, at on point your name was offensive...

Do tell would you change it??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Actually it does change the point. Its no more silly than me blaming every white man in America TODAY, for slavery. OR blaming every Christian for what went on during the crusades. Again IM not telling them they have no right to be upset. But I really think this has become a case of a small group being upset, and CONVINCING others they should be just as upset. I agree that we should be accepting and to a point understanding of others feelings. But let me ask you, If I came to you with a proposal that you change your name because it offends me and every one in my family. It hurts my feelings every time I hear that name because i feel it symbolizes hate and it really never should be uttered again... now YOU personally never did anything to me, but a guy with your name was a very bad man..... would you change your name?? Never mind that for the past 50 years every guy that HAS had the same name was a model citizen, at on point your name was offensive...

Do tell would you change it??

Good question. And if my name was Nappy Headed ***** then I could see the analogy. But sorry, Dave is not the same as Redskins which again is a physical description of an entire group of people, a term the Dictionary defines as a racial slur. Dave, Redhead, Blonde is simply not close to Redskins

 

[Sharkinva]

Good question. And if my name was Tall Stupid Black Man then I could see the analogy. But sorry, Dave is not the same as Redskins which again is a physical description of an entire group of people, a term the Dictionary defines as a racial slur. Dave, Redhead, Blonde is simply not close to Redskins

That sir depends on WHO's account of history you choose to believe. As there are varying reports as to what it originally described. Some have said the term came from the fact that NA's themselves would paint their faces RED and the term Redskin originally was meant to describe a brave all dressed up for war. And as i have stated, many a benign term CAN be turned into a slur. So it totally depends on the context and the intent. Texan could be considered a slur if said in the right context by the wrong person. As i have said, I think some people have been CONVINCED a slur exists that no longer does and likely never was originally intended as such in the first place. Nevermind the fact that MOST NA's are in fact NOT Redskin'd in any case.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

No. I also took that you are concerned with being politically correct, which is fine. Just don't push your concerns on those that disagree (which I don't think you are, but others of your like mind are).

I'm not doing it to be politically correct, I am saying this because I think it's wrong to simply dismiss a large group of people who are legitimately offended just because we don't think they should be offended.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

That sir depends on WHO's account of history you choose to believe. As there are varying reports as to what it originally described. Some have said the term came from the fact that NA's themselves would paint their faces RED and the term Redskin originally was meant to describe a brave all dressed up for war. And as i have stated, many a benign term CAN be turned into a slur. So it totally depends on the context and the intent. Texan could be considered a slur if said in the right context by the wrong person. As i have said, I think some people have been CONVINCED a slur exists that no longer does and likely never was originally intended as such in the first place. Nevermind the fact that MOST NA's are in fact NOT Redskin'd in any case.

The name is Redskin. Red Skin. Again a physical description of an entire group of people. Texan is not the same.

I'm not concerned with the origins, although the name picked by a racist owner would support my argument. My only concern is the Native Americans who are offended today and there are a lot of them.

Again look at the cookout example I posted earlier. If it's not an issue to be taken seriously then why was that poster informed that his sweatshirt was a big problem?

 

[Sharkinva]

The name is Redskin. Red Skin. Again a physical description of an entire group of people. Please stop with the Texan, Blonde, Redhead comparison because it's not the same.

HOw many of these boys have Red Skin???

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If this was a non-issue among NAs then why did the leaders of the 5 most prominent tribes, representing 500,000 NAs, vote 20-1 for a resolution supporting a name change?

http://www.changethemascot.org/wp-c...-Tribes-Washington-Sports-Team-Resolution.pdf

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

HOw many of these boys have Red Skin???

And how many at the Shark family reunion actually had burrheads? Does that mean it would be acceptable for me to wear a shirt with that word splashed across it to the event?

 

[Sharkinva]

If this was a non-issue among NAs then why did the leaders of the 5 most prominent tribes, representing 500,000 NAs, vote 20-1 for a resolution supporting a name change?

http://www.changethemascot.org/wp-c...-Tribes-Washington-Sports-Team-Resolution.pdf

One word.... MONEY

You dont think that the end result of this is a class action suit??

Again Dude, No one is saying thy dont have a right to be upset if they really want to. But the reason I say its a non issue is because instead of putting all this energy into ACTUALLY trying to improve the conditions of Native Americans, they have sunk billions of Dollars and countless man hours into a feel good moment. Aside from some symbolic moral victory, whats stood to gain from the name change?? Does forcing the team name change mean all of a sudden Native Americans will increase the number of their children that go to college?? They are so desperate to get a symbolic apology for slights of the past, that they are wasting the opportunity to move forward into the future. Do you realize just how many Native American kids could have had full tilt rides to school for the amount of money spent on the PR campaign that they ran during the Super Bowl?? $18 million would put alot of kids through school dont you think??

See that is my point. This is an issue because some people CHOOSE to make it an issue at this point. But lets drop another $36 million plus and change the name of the fighting Irish next shall we??

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Critics often point to the 90% poll from the early 2000s as if that's proof. Problem is it wasn't representative and is a flawed poll. Many of those offended are older, the young kids don't seem to mind as much. But the problem is it was a telephone poll and many older NAs back then did not have phones. So the voice of the group most offended was never heard.

The Director of the poll said it best. Even if it was accurate if you invited 10 people to dinner and only insulted 1 of the ten would that be OK in your eyes? Not mine it wouldn't be.

 

[Sharkinva]

And how many at the Shark family reunion actually had burrheads? Does that mean it would be acceptable for me to wear a shirt with that word splashed across it to the event?

The real question you should be asking is, if you wore that shirt, even if my entire family was offended by it, do we have a right to tell you to take it off?? And here is the point you seem to leave out, if they are offended by the team name, simple solution... dont go to the games. IM offended by the concept of two men french kissing in public, hence i dont frequent establishments where i might encounter such behavior.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

One word.... MONEY

You dont think that the end result of this is a class action suit??

Again Dude, No one is saying thy dont have a right to be upset if they really want to. But the reason I say its a non issue is because instead of putting all this energy into ACTUALLY trying to improve the conditions of Native Americans, they have sunk billions of Dollars and countless man hours into a feel good moment. Aside from some symbolic moral victory, whats stood to gain from the name change?? Does forcing the team name change mean all of a sudden Native Americans will increase the number of their children that go to college?? They are so desperate to get a symbolic apology for slights of the past, that they are wasting the opportunity to move forward into the future. Do you realize just how many Native American kids could have had full tilt rides to school for the amount of money spent on the PR campaign that they ran during the Super Bowl?? $18 million would put alot of kids through school dont you think??

See that is my point. This is an issue because some people CHOOSE to make it an issue at this point. But lets drop another $36 million plus and change the name of the fighting Irish next shall we??

I hate this argument. It's not an either or thing. Not fighting the name does not mean the problems simply go away either so you can't say fighting the name damaged the effort to fix some very real problems in the NA community.

Billions of dollars? Not sure where that figure came from. But putting this much effort and money into this topic means one thing to me: it matters to them.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The real question you should be asking is, if you wore that shirt, even if my entire family was offended by it, do we have a right to tell you to take it off?? And here is the point you seem to leave out, if they are offended by the team name, simple solution... dont go to the games. IM offended by the concept of two men french kissing in public, hence i dont frequent establishments where i might encounter such behavior.

You would have every right to insist I take it off or I should be prepared to suffer the consequences.

And not going to the games does not remove the name and the sting. Pretty safe bet 99.99999% of those offended have never been to a Redskins game. Every time they see SportsCenter or watch other teams play the Redskins name will be heard, the highlights will be seen. The name will be there for them even if they try to avoid it. That is not the answer.

 

[Sharkinva]

I hate this argument. It's not an either or thing. Not fighting the name does not mean the problems simply go away either so you can't say fighting the name damaged the effort to fix some very real problems in the NA community. . They are not mutually inclusive. Billions of dollars? Not sure where that figure came from. But putting this much effort and money into this topic means one thing to me: it matters to them.

Dude, they dropped $36 million just on the commercial spot that ran during the Super Bowl and the NBA Finals. So maybe not Billions, but a few Million is nothing to sneeze at.

BUt let me ask you an honest question.... when exactly did you decide the team name was actually a Slur?? And what prompted this divine enlightenment?? But cause Im pretty sure if you were a DC Football team from an early age, the concept that it was or could even be a racial slur didnt dawn on you until the past 10-15 years. Which is my real point. Words dont define people, we give them meaning.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As a follow up to my comments about the flawed poll here is new info that cites 67% of NAs now feel the name is in fact racist.


That now infamous 2004 Associated Press Annenberg survey – quoted ad nauseam by TV pundits, fans, and even NFL representatives – said that a majority of Native Americans believe the name “Redskins” is not offensive.


Well, according to a California professor, they’re all wrong. James Fenelon, Lakota/Dakota from Standing Rock, a sociology professor at California State University, San Bernardino, compiled his own data, and the results show that 67 percent of Native Americans believe that “Redskins” is a racist word.


During a news conference in January, when NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said that nine out of ten Native Americans “prefer” the name “Redskins,” he was quoting that 2004 survey of 768 people who identified themselves as American Indian.


“Of course it is both disgusting and predictable,” Fenelon told ICTMN about the 90 percent figure that Goodell quoted. “It is a major reason why I agreed to take this [study] on… The dominant society knows on some level that it is bogus to run these uncritical polls, and then reproduce results that don't resonate with real experience.”


Read more at 67 Percent of Native Americans Say Redskins Is Offensive - ICTMN.com

http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf