Different rules for different coaches.....

[bbwvfan]

Is WVU's QB drama unique? Hardly...

Simply look at the University of Alabama. They won a NC with a transfer QB from FSU in '15. They took the field with a true FR this year.

LSU started a transfer from Purdue this year. He was a 4 star QB out of high school. How impressed were you?

Les Miles has a solid coaching record... wouldn't you say? He gets top recruiting classes... at QB... here were some of his gems... in '14... 4 star Brandon Harris.... rated 3rd Dual QB. How has that looked? How about Anthony Jennings... another 4 star... rated 14th best as a pro style in the class of '13. OK... then let's look at Rob Bolden... another 4 star... ranked #3 Dual QB in the class of '12.

You get the picture?

 

[bbwvfan]

Jalen Hurts had a very successful season at Bama. Looks like he is gonna be there as the #1 QB for awhile. How did the kids behind him on the depth chart react?

Blake Barnett... 5 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
Cooper Bateman... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
David Cornwell... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.

 

[bbwvfan]

A great article highlighting the difficulty of projecting the QB position for college coaches...

Projecting success at QB tougher than other positions

Recruiting analysts say it's tougher to project which top prospects will succeed in college at quarterback than at any other position.

A look at their rankings bears that out.

Only one of the top nine quarterbacks in the 2013 class started more than three games for the school that originally signed him, according to composite rankings of recruiting websites compiled by 247Sports . That's No. 2 Christian Hackenberg, who played three seasons at Penn State before being drafted in the second round by the New York Jets.


By comparison, nine of the top 15 overall 2013 prospects regardless of position are in the NFL after being drafted in the first two rounds.

"I don't think it's hard to evaluate the physical skills that are required to play the position," Alabama coach Nick Saban said. "But I think some of the most important things in playing quarterback are decision-making, judgment, timing, leadership, accuracy under pressure, and those things are much more difficult to evaluate until a player is actually called upon to do that in your particular system, even in some cases."

Just four of the top 20 quarterbacks from the 2013 class are currently starting for the schools they originally signed with: Ohio State's J.T. Barrett (No. 10), Tennessee's Joshua Dobbs (No. 13), Stanford's Ryan Burns (No. 15) and North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky (No. 19).

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I agree with what you say Slaton. In addition, I think we lost the Florida pipeline that started with Nehlen and continued for many years. The loss of Galloway seemed devastating. We brought in many from Miramar High. If we are losing these recruits to UCF and non power 5 schools, we are behind the ball.

Pitt is taking 6 kids from Florida. Maryland has some of the best tidewater NJ and D.C. Area kids and nearly a top 10 class. We have lost ground in our favored historical recruiting areas. Signing lots of JUCOs show we have problems. Hope we can turn it around.

 

[bbwvfan]

Obviously you are not going to buy into the concept that Dana's lack of a contract extension following the '15 season negatively impacted recruiting. Your lack of acknowledgement of this comes through with your reference to this year's recruiting class having 10 JUCO's and an overall ranking below ISU.

I know I have shared my thoughts with you on this before. Dana admitted to the press his staff had faced negative recruiting on this issue, and he hoped having the extension would help. The extension does little to save this year's class, but I expect we'll see it help next year's and subsequent years.

By the time our stupid ass AD finally gave Dana an extension, most high school kids are committed. You aren't likely to get any top notch recruits to flip that late unless you're Bama, tOSU or UofM.

 

[bbwvfan]

So, if we look closely at this year's JUCO class... we see we have 7 kids... two of whom are returning to WVU. David Sills was recruited at QB but agreed to play at WR after impressing the coaches doing so on the scout team. Dana told him and his father his future was at WR and felt he had a chance to play the position in the NFL. Dad and son wanted to keep the QB dream alive. He is now back at WVU to play WR...

Kelby Wickline signed to play at UTSA, but followed his daddy to Morgantown, but didn't stay long. Now he's back to compete for an OL position. Considered one of the top 100 JUCO's, he had committed to UNC but flipped to WVU upon the announcement of Dana's extension.

As we all know, DL and OL are in great demand. WVU has recruited some talent at DE in Shuler and Donahue... but both are young. Shuler looks like he is going to be very good. WVU needs depth at the DL while some other kids come back from injury/surgery... Peagues/Fields.

From what I've read, Quondarius Qualls is really special. He jumped to 4-star status this fall. He could be a real threat in the pass rush after he gets acclimated to Div 1 football. Jalen Harvey is another top 100 JUCO. A coach in the JUCO ranks said the combo of Qualls and Harvey is unfair for WVU's future opponents.

Let's hope he's right...

 

[bbwvfan]

IMO, 7 JUCO's is not over the top.

Look at this past year's roster. Look at the number of kids who have redshirted. That is building a program. Go back and look at the number of redshirt players on the 2013 roster.

If you look at the '14 recruiting class, there were a number of factors impacting it. Grades/qualifying... kids getting into trouble... kids transferring to play at a lower level.

Who from that class did Dana fail to develop? Dontae Angus?

 

[mad2mc]

You can lead a horse to water, but....

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I do acknowledge that having a coach on the hot seat is not good for recruiting. Also that QB is a hard position to scout and develop. Some of the Juco guys can be very good. I just think that loading up on players who will only give you 1 or 2 years makes it harder to consistently field a good team.

Id rather see us have the ability to replace our starters from within. That shows that we have recruited and developed players well and really created depth in the roster.

BB if you had to choose between recruiting a JUCO like Quayles or a 4'star HS guy, who would you go for? On the other hand, if you had a poor showing from your 2014 class and needed another linebacker to start next year, it may change your opinion.

Recruiting kids is a multi year effort which entails building relationships with the coaches. We seem to lost our formerly productive connections with D.C. Tidewater, NJ and Florida.

We can blame assistant turnover, HC stability, and poor records in previous years,but our last 3 classes lack the overall talent and depth we need to compete.

Maybe it is better to Focus on JUCOs, grad transfers and transfers. Bigger, more experienced players, instant depth. There are fewer JCs than high schools. Maybe that will be our spot in the future. Gotta get players from somewhere.

 

[bbwvfan]

I do acknowledge that having a coach on the hot seat is not good for recruiting. Also that QB is a hard position to scout and develop. Some of the Juco guys can be very good. I just think that loading up on players who will only give you 1 or 2 years makes it harder to consistently field a good team.

Id rather see us have the ability to replace our starters from within. That shows that we have recruited and developed players well and really created depth in the roster.

BB if you had to choose between recruiting a JUCO like Quayles or a 4'star HS guy, who would you go for? On the other hand, if you had a poor showing from your 2014 class and needed another linebacker to start next year, it may change your opinion.

Recruiting kids is a multi year effort which entails building relationships with the coaches. We seem to lost our formerly productive connections with D.C. Tidewater, NJ and Florida.

We can blame assistant turnover, HC stability, and poor records in previous years,but our last 3 classes lack the overall talent and depth we need to compete.

Maybe it is better to Focus on JUCOs, grad transfers and transfers. Bigger, more experienced players, instant depth. There are fewer JCs than high schools. Maybe that will be our spot in the future. Gotta get players from somewhere.

It is unreasonable to expect that every kid recruited to WVU will stay there for the duration. This would have to happen for your preference of replacing starters from within to be reality. Kids are transferring in this sport in high numbers today. You have to understand the times of the past are no longer the present... nor the future.

Seider is still recruiting FL. UF is now trying hard to hire Seider away from WVU. We'll see if Eddie P... I mean Shane Lyons will pony up what it might take to keep him working for Dana.

WVU has never had the talent in depth to compete. In the history of WVU football it has never had the depth of talent to compete.

Like I have said, Lyons hurt three recruiting classes for WVU with his inaction. It is inexcusable....

 

[Anotherwvufan]

It is unreasonable to expect that every kid recruited to WVU will stay there for the duration. This would have to happen for your preference of replacing starters from within to be reality. Kids are transferring in this sport in high numbers today. You have to understand the times of the past are no longer the present... nor the future.

This does not seem to be such a problem at many successful schools. Many great coaches shy away from JUCOs for this reason.

Seider is still recruiting FL. UF is now trying hard to hire Seider away from WVU. We'll see if Eddie P... I mean Shane Lyons will pony up what it might take to keep him working for Dana.

Seider is not making great inroads into that state. 2 Florida recruits is the lowest we have had for years. How much should he get paid?

WVU has never had the talent in depth to compete. In the history of WVU football it has never had the depth of talent to compete.
I recall a few years in the past where we could compete with anyone.

Like I have said, Lyons hurt three recruiting classes for WVU with his inaction. It is inexcusable....

Blame Lyons for posting a 4-7 record a couple of years ago. Performance put Holgs on the hot seat. Extending a coach with a losing record would not have changed the recruiting picture much. Are you saying that Shane should have fired Holgs in 2014?

 

[bbwvfan]

Blame Lyons for posting a 4-7 record a couple of years ago. Performance put Holgs on the hot seat. Extending a coach with a losing record would not have changed the recruiting picture much. Are you saying that Shane should have fired Holgs in 2014?

Shane should have fired Dana after the '15 season... or given him an extension. Pretty simple stuff.

IMO, the 4-8 season in '13 was tough to swallow. But, it was understandable. You disagree?

 

[Slaton10]

Jalen Hurts had a very successful season at Bama. Looks like he is gonna be there as the #1 QB for awhile. How did the kids behind him on the depth chart react?

Blake Barnett... 5 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
Cooper Bateman... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
David Cornwell... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.

Had a conversation about that kid last night..I think Hurts is average...at best!...one of those other kids should beat him out..

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Jalen Hurts had a very successful season at Bama. Looks like he is gonna be there as the #1 QB for awhile. How did the kids behind him on the depth chart react?

Blake Barnett... 5 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
Cooper Bateman... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.
David Cornwell... 4 star QB... he gone. Plans to transfer.

Nice problem to have

 

[Slaton10]

Blame Lyons for posting a 4-7 record a couple of years ago. Performance put Holgs on the hot seat. Extending a coach with a losing record would not have changed the recruiting picture much. Are you saying that Shane should have fired Holgs in 2014?

I guess I don't understand why people look at Wins and Losses as the only measuring stick...unless you have a pattern like Florida did when Zook who was a master recruiter couldn't get it done...and he was there for 3 seasons!!

Zook was head coach at Florida for three seasons. The Gators compiled records of 8–5 (2002), 8–5 (2003) and 7–5 (2004). While Zook's tenure saw modest success, it was well short of what Gator fans had come to expect. In his three seasons.

But following Steve Spurrier wasn't going to be easy...but yet the guy still was winning..and so Urban Meyer got the benefit of Zooks kids...

I bring this up because that's FLORIDA!....they can have a tremor and still find away to calm the waters fairly quickly...but look at them now...Fired a pretty good coach in Muschamp and may or may not have righted the ship with Mclwain..

At Wv it comes back to the recruiting base and the Coaching Staff..if there is a tremor it will take longer to recover...see Rich Rodriguez...IMHO the program is just now healing from that loss...I have no idea why Shane Lyon's thinks that Wv is an ALABAMA that it can bring in quality Asst. Coaches who think its such a great opportunity to Wv on their resume for possibly only one year ...If I am that Asst Coach I'm looking at a MAC or AAC school that will guarantee at least 3 years..unless performance dictates otherwise..

There is a reason why the Steelers have had only 3 Head Coaches since 1969...even though after yesterdays game I more than ready to seem them move on to their 4th!!...Wv has to have the same continuity it has to be a part of the overall strategy...if the program is healthy..they are filling their classes with quality kids, butts are in the seats and if they are challenging for Big12 titles ever 3 years...that to me is success..

 

[bbwvfan]

Had a conversation about that kid last night..I think Hurts is average...at best!...one of those other kids should beat him out..

But, they didn't beat him out!

 

[bbwvfan]

Nice problem to have

Having no depth at QB is a nice problem to have? Behind Hurts will be a true freshman next year.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Having no depth at QB is a nice problem to have? Behind Hurts will be a true freshman next year.

Having 4 and 5 star guys transfer because they are unlikely to see the field means you have someone better. Unlike us, Alabama has 2 new QBs coming in. As you said earlier, these top blue chip recruits will transfer to get playing time and a shot at the next level.

We would all be giddy if we were able to land one of those guys that is leaving Bama.

 

[bbwvfan]

Having 4 and 5 star guys transfer because they are unlikely to see the field means you have someone better. Unlike us, Alabama has 2 new QBs coming in. As you said earlier, these top blue chip recruits will transfer to get playing time and a shot at the next level.

We would all be giddy if we were able to land one of those guys that is leaving Bama.

Do you think WVU fans would be happy to have zero experience behind their starter? That makes no sense.

WVU fans don't seem to be too giddy about Will Grier transferring to WVU. They make recruiting references... like why can't we recruit a kid like this out of high school? Wouldn't we want to have a kid for 4 years instead of less?

 

[Anotherwvufan]

I guess I don't understand why people look at Wins and Losses as the only measuring stick...unless you have a pattern like Florida did when Zook who was a master recruiter couldn't get it done...and he was there for 3 seasons!!

Zook was head coach at Florida for three seasons. The Gators compiled records of 8–5 (2002), 8–5 (2003) and 7–5 (2004). While Zook's tenure saw modest success, it was well short of what Gator fans had come to expect. In his three seasons.

But following Steve Spurrier wasn't going to be easy...but yet the guy still was winning..and so Urban Meyer got the benefit of Zooks kids...

I bring this up because that's FLORIDA!....they can have a tremor and still find away to calm the waters fairly quickly...but look at them now...Fired a pretty good coach in Muschamp and may or may not have righted the ship with Mclwain..

At Wv it comes back to the recruiting base and the Coaching Staff..if there is a tremor it will take longer to recover...see Rich Rodriguez...IMHO the program is just now healing from that loss...I have no idea why Shane Lyon's thinks that Wv is an ALABAMA that it can bring in quality Asst. Coaches who think its such a great opportunity to Wv on their resume for possibly only one year ...If I am that Asst Coach I'm looking at a MAC or AAC school that will guarantee at least 3 years..unless performance dictates otherwise..

There is a reason why the Steelers have had only 3 Head Coaches since 1969...even though after yesterdays game I more than ready to seem them move on to their 4th!!...Wv has to have the same continuity it has to be a part of the overall strategy...if the program is healthy..they are filling their classes with quality kids, butts are in the seats and if they are challenging for Big12 titles ever 3 years...that to me is success..

I agree wholeheartedly. Hence my reason for being behind Lyons on his football contract decisions. If we were Florida, Holgs would have been gone last year or the year before that. Wins against Oklahoma State and Baylor, showed that we did have something and Holgs could put together a good game plan. The question was could he do it consistently? He was able to beat the teams he should have beaten and earned his extension.

I also agree that longer contracts for assistants are needed to keep continuity. I am not sure why Galloway and others left. Easy for them to see that the ship was sinking and bolt for a team with a coach that could offer them more stability. If Lyons could have saved them, he does bear blame for much of our recruiting woes. Letting Crook go, In my opinion was a mistake. Continuity in assistants can be very important for recruiting. For teams like WVU, we need these guys in the high schools often talking to Sophomores and Juniors before the big teams start watching.