Difference in QB eras

[Schmoopy1000]

@RaZon I'll leave our debate between Fouts & rivers in the other thread, but like to point out some things on QBs in general & the different eras.

Talking of TD/INT ratios. Guess how many QBs that played in the 70's & 80's are in the top 50.
Zero. The game was played differently back then. Doesnt mean the 70's & 80's didnt have any great QBs.

Your favorite QB Ratings
Only 4 QBs are in the top 50 that didnt play in this century.
Steve Young 10th
Joe Montana 16th
Dan Marino 37th
Jim Kelly 47th
Niners are the ones that started with how todays offenses play so kind of makes sense they would have a higher Rating from the older days of football.
Dan Marino well he is Dan Marino!
Joe Montana is the oldest era QB to make the list.
BTW Trubisky is 33rd. Please dont think Trubisky is better than Marino & Kelly.

Comp. pct.
only 2 players, 3 if you want to include Aikman(he played in 2000) that didnt play in this century.
Again it is the Niner QBs Young & Montana.

INT %
Bono 30th (another Niner QB)
Montana 37th
Young 38th
Kosar 39th
Ken O'Brien 48th

TD Passes
6. Dan Marino
11. Fran Tarkenton
12. John Elway
14. Warren Moon (did play in 2000)
15. Johnny Unitas
18. Joe Montana
20. Dave Krieg
21. Sonny Jurgensen
22. Dan Fouts
25. Boomer Esiason
26. John Hadl
27. Len Dawson
28. Jim Kelly
29. George Blanda
31. Steve Young
36. John Brodie
37. Terry Bradshaw
37. Y.A. Title
40. Jim hart
44. Jim Everett
45. Roman Gabriel
46. Phil Simms
48. Ken Anderson
49. Steve Deberg
49. Joe Ferguson
49. Bobby Layne
49. Norm Snead

So on this list gonna be awhile to get rid of all the old timers, but a bunch of them will probably fall soon at the rate of TD passes are being allowed.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Speaking of the passing game being completely different back then to now.

When you look at yards per completion.
you have to go all the way down to 55th to find a Qb of this era
Pat Mahomes is tied with Bert Jones, Steve Beuerlein, & Jim Zorn for 55th
Winston is tied with a bunch for 59th
Watson tied with a bunch for 81st
Wilson (known for throwing downfield) is tied with Rivers at 107th.
The old timers threw down field most of the time, where it isnt that way nowadays. (much safer throws, less high risk)

 

[RaZon]

@RaZon I'll leave our debate between Fouts & rivers in the other thread, but like to point out some things on QBs in general & the different eras.

Talking of TD/INT ratios. Guess how many QBs that played in the 70's & 80's are in the top 50.
Zero. The game was played differently back then. Doesnt mean the 70's & 80's didnt have any great QBs.

Your favorite QB Ratings
Only 4 QBs are in the top 50 that didnt play in this century.
Steve Young 10th
Joe Montana 16th
Dan Marino 37th
Jim Kelly 47th
Niners are the ones that started with how todays offenses play so kind of makes sense they would have a higher Rating from the older days of football.
Dan Marino well he is Dan Marino!
Joe Montana is the oldest era QB to make the list.
BTW Trubisky is 33rd. Please dont think Trubisky is better than Marino & Kelly.

Comp. pct.
only 2 players, 3 if you want to include Aikman(he played in 2000) that didnt play in this century.
Again it is the Niner QBs Young & Montana.

INT %
Bono 30th (another Niner QB)
Montana 37th
Young 38th
Kosar 39th
Ken O'Brien 48th

TD Passes
6. Dan Marino
11. Fran Tarkenton
12. John Elway
14. Warren Moon (did play in 2000)
15. Johnny Unitas
18. Joe Montana
20. Dave Krieg
21. Sonny Jurgensen
22. Dan Fouts
25. Boomer Esiason
26. John Hadl
27. Len Dawson
28. Jim Kelly
29. George Blanda
31. Steve Young
36. John Brodie
37. Terry Bradshaw
37. Y.A. Title
40. Jim hart
44. Jim Everett
45. Roman Gabriel
46. Phil Simms
48. Ken Anderson
49. Steve Deberg
49. Joe Ferguson
49. Bobby Layne
49. Norm Snead

So on this list gonna be awhile to get rid of all the old timers, but a bunch of them will probably fall soon at the rate of TD passes are being allowed.

Like I mentioned love to see an effort, and all that is great, but ya keep acting as if I just started watching football. I turn 72 in July, been into pro football since the days before the Dallas Cowboys who came real close to being called the Rangers. Hell, the first Cowboys were the Kansas City Cowboys.

Anyway.....

Why do you keep telling me all this stuff, nothing you can say will change the fact Philip Rivers puts up better numbers vs far better athletes than Montana, Marino, Fouts ever faced. He throws lazers into tight windows, he is accurate, and precise. Dan Fouts simply didn't have the arm Rivers has and this a Cali guy who saw them play many many times telling you that.

I am first and foremost a track guy, my first sport is sprinting, none of the old time greats can hang with these guys today. hell high school kids are running faster than past Olympic champions. All sports fans get the era thing, ok?

 

[RaZon]

Todays QB have to be mobile, a 40 time was never more important, after Brady leaves there goes that.......stand tall in the pocket. Now ya need a QB who can extend the play evade that pass rush. That area just behind the pass rush but in front of the mess up the field is where ya can do some real damage with a mobile QB. My bad Big Ben is still around.

Russell Wilson is the absolute perfect QB for todays game, he's smart, cool, has a great arm and knows how to run and when to do it.

No cornerback can stay with even a HS WR for very long, this is why ya need just a little time, mobile QB's give you that.

 

[RaZon]

Speaking of the passing game being completely different back then to now.

When you look at yards per completion.
you have to go all the way down to 55th to find a Qb of this era
Pat Mahomes is tied with Bert Jones, Steve Beuerlein, & Jim Zorn for 55th
Winston is tied with a bunch for 59th
Watson tied with a bunch for 81st
Wilson (known for throwing downfield) is tied with Rivers at 107th.
The old timers threw down field most of the time, where it isnt that way nowadays. (much safer throws, less high risk)

Do you honestly think we don't see far superior athletes at all positions today than back in the day?

There is only one player from the 1960's who could play today like he did in his day, that would be Bullet Bob Hayes. He was a 10.06 100m man in 1964 and there is nobody today not even Tyreek Hill that fast.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Todays QB have to be mobile, a 40 time was never more important, after Brady leaves there goes that.......stand tall in the pocket. Now ya need a QB who can extend the play evade that pass rush. That area just behind the pass rush but in front of the mess up the field is where ya can do some real damage with a mobile QB. My bad Big Ben is still around.

Russell Wilson is the absolute perfect QB for todays game, he's smart, cool, has a great arm and knows how to run and when to do it.

No cornerback can stay with even a HS WR for very long, this is why ya need just a little time, mobile QB's give you that.

Herbert did pretty well as a pocket QB. Yes what you explained is what teams look for, but pocket QBs will still be around.

Using Athletes of today as an excuse againsts QB backs from back in the day is ridiculous.
You would never get to say a good thing about Otto Graham or many other greats of their time, since you just dropped them into today they would end up a shit stain in the grass. Whats next? Trubisky is better than Marino? (because of the athletes they played against?)
You're losing me.

Peace!

 

[RaZon]

Herbert did pretty well as a pocket QB. Yes what you explained is what teams look for, but pocket QBs will still be around.

Using Athletes of today as an excuse againsts QB backs from back in the day is ridiculous.
You would never get to say a good thing about Otto Graham or many other greats of their time, since you just dropped them into today they would end up a shit stain in the grass. Whats next? Trubisky is better than Marino? (because of the athletes they played against?)
You're losing me.

Peace!

Somewhere out there I gave my Mount Rushmore for QB;s...

Brady, Montana, Unitas and Otto

So you are wrong. I do go with dominance of era, and with that said Don Hutson is my other receiver across from Jerry Rice. NOBODY....in the history of football was ever more dominate at their position than Hutson was.

Jim Brown is the greatest RB ever (actually a fullback).

Jesse Owens still one of the greats forget the fact HS kids today could blow him away.

Herbert gained 255 yards rushing, he does run.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Do you honestly think we don't see far superior athletes at all positions today than back in the day?

There is only one player from the 1960's who could play today like he did in his day, that would be Bullet Bob Hayes. He was a 10.06 100m man in 1964 and there is nobody today not even Tyreek Hill that fast.

I completely agree the athletes are better today than back then. That doesnt make the player today better than the player from back then.
BTW QBs back in those days got beat the fuck up. You know why you see so many QBs have long careers now. because they are barely allowed to be touched. Now imagine trying to complete a pass 15 yards downfield while your receiver is being mauled by the DB. You want to look at everything from one side only. All the rules favor QBs now. They change rules so their can be more scoring. Defenses arent as good as the ones back in the day. QBs dont suffer like they did back in the day. So when Randy White or Mean Joe Green Pancaked a QB that would now be a 15 yd penalty. Most QBs nowadays are prima donnas compared to back then. Jim Burt Annihilated Joe Montana. Those kind of hits arent happening nowadays. Could you imagine a Deacon Jones slap to a Qb of today? Mel Blount saying go ahead & beat the shit of the QB because I am gonna maul his target so he has to hold the ball. Roger Staubach & so many more retired much earlier than they would have, because of the physical hits they were taking. So while you explain to me about how much more athletic the guys are now. Those Athletes arent making the QBs look through their ear hole! Oh! & BTW. Some of those better Athletes are the receivers these QBs are throwing to now.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Somewhere out there I gave my Mount Rushmore for QB;s...

Brady, Montana, Unitas and Otto

So you are wrong. I do go with dominance of era, and with that said Don Hutson is my other receiver across from Jerry Rice. NOBODY....in the history of football was ever more dominate at their position than Hutson was.

Jim Brown is the greatest RB ever (actually a fullback).

Jesse Owens still one of the greats forget the fact HS kids today could blow him away.

Herbert gained 255 yards rushing, he does run.

actually it was 234 which is around 15 yards a game. Literally could be one run.
he is a pocket passer brother.

 

[RaZon]

So it was....

Slingin' Sammy Baugh who believe it or not could punt for any NFL team today.
Otto Graham
Johnny U/Tarkenton/Starr/

actually it was 234 which is around 15 yards a game. Literally could be one run.
he is a pocket passer brother.

He had 13 rushing TD's and over 500 yards rushing at Oregon. Yep, no Lamar Jackson but no Brady/Rivers either,

 

[Schmoopy1000]

So it was....

Slingin' Sammy Baugh who believe it or not could punt for any NFL team today.
Otto Graham
Johnny U/Tarkenton/Starr/

He had 13 rushing TD's and over 500 yards rushing at Oregon. Yep, no Lamar Jackson but no Brady/Rivers either,

NFL career = Pocket Passer!

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Slingin' Sammy Baugh who believe it or not could punt for any NFL team today.
Otto Graham
Johnny U/Tarkenton/Starr/

All would get destroyed by the athletes of today!

(Am I doing this right?)

 

[RaZon]

All would get destroyed by the athletes of today!

(Am I doing this right?)

Yes they would, and you nailed it!

There are high school lines bigger today than NFL lines from once upon a timeville.

The 2020 Alabama team would have destroyed any of Lombardi Packer teams. Too big and too fast.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Yes they would, and you nailed it!

There are high school lines bigger today than NFL lines from once upon a timeville.

Guess that makes Trubisky better than Slingin' Sammy & Otto Graham. he plays against better athletes.

(dont know why I keep using Trubisky as the red headed stepchild) LOL

 

[RaZon]

I completely agree the athletes are better today than back then. That doesnt make the player today better than the player from back then.
BTW QBs back in those days got beat the fuck up. You know why you see so many QBs have long careers now. because they are barely allowed to be touched. Now imagine trying to complete a pass 15 yards downfield while your receiver is being mauled by the DB. You want to look at everything from one side only. All the rules favor QBs now. They change rules so their can be more scoring. Defenses arent as good as the ones back in the day. QBs dont suffer like they did back in the day. So when Randy White or Mean Joe Green Pancaked a QB that would now be a 15 yd penalty. Most QBs nowadays are prima donnas compared to back then. Jim Burt Annihilated Joe Montana. Those kind of hits arent happening nowadays. Could you imagine a Deacon Jones slap to a Qb of today? Mel Blount saying go ahead & beat the shit of the QB because I am gonna maul his target so he has to hold the ball. Roger Staubach & so many more retired much earlier than they would have, because of the physical hits they were taking. So while you explain to me about how much more athletic the guys are now. Those Athletes arent making the QBs look through their ear hole! Oh! & BTW. Some of those better Athletes are the receivers these QBs are throwing to now.

I am totally into what you are saying, and how the game is played today totally sucks. Part of the game is hitting, it's not suppose to be safe.

But, the game was never meant to be played by guys 225 pounds with 4,45 jets who can bench 400 pounds. That is a weapon.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

I am totally into what you are saying, and how the game is played today totally sucks. Part of the game is hitting, it's not suppose to be safe.

But, the game was never meant to be played by guys 225 pounds with 4,45 jets who can bench 400 pounds. That is a weapon.

Sports Science is a doozy!

 

[RaZon]

Guess that makes Trubisky better than Slingin' Sammy & Otto Graham. he plays against better athletes.

(dont know why I keep using Trubisky as the red headed stepchild) LOL

There is no doubt Trupisky is far better than Baugh and Otto, not even close. Look how few QB rivals they had to coup with compared to what Trupiisky had to deal with.

 

[RaZon]

Sports Science is a doozy!

There was a time The Frig at 300 pounds was an oddity, now every team has a dozen or more.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

There is no doubt Trupisky is far better than Baugh and Otto, not even close. Look how few QB rivals they had to coup with compared to what Trupiisky had to deal with.

& with that

 

[RaZon]

& with that

Keep in mind neither Baugh or Otto had to face African American athletes like Trubisky does. Seriously doubt either QB ever saw a 4,4 cornerback. A Deacon Jones, a Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas, no Reggie White.

The fastest sprinter in Holland couldn't make a 4x1 team at USC, TCU, Houston.