Did Bonds Ruin baseball

[MilkSpiller22]

Agreed, the roid fest did bring back some interest after the strike.

But believe me, even if it wasn't Bonds, eventually the steroid monster would have come out of the closet. And it's not steroids or even HR/K/BB focus "ruining" baseball. It's not ruined. It's just fading. It's a 20th century sport in the 21st century. It's just not conducive to the modern sports fan

again, i am not blaming steroids at all... steroids saved baseball... I am blaming the cheating scandal and witch hunts and the political intrusion... And that i blame Bonds for... Because he was the one who the media was trying so hard to vilify...

so yes, i think if bonds never took the steroid era would be looked upon much differently... and i think that it wouldnt be seen as negatively as it is now... It still would have had to go... But it would have just been handled so much better...

Bonds was the lynchpin...

 

[msgkings322]

again, i am not blaming steroids at all... steroids saved baseball... I am blaming the cheating scandal and witch hunts and the political intrusion... And that i blame Bonds for... Because he was the one who the media was trying so hard to vilify...

so yes, i think if bonds never took the steroid era would be looked upon much differently... and i think that it wouldnt be seen as negatively as it is now... It still would have had to go... But it would have just been handled so much better...

Bonds was the lynchpin...

You are still missing it. Steroids or no, baseball would still be slowly in decline right now.

 

[BigFin]

The thing I hated about Bonds is how he crowded the plate wearing several pounds of body armor.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You are still missing it. Steroids or no, baseball would still be slowly in decline right now.

Sure. But much slower.

 

[msgkings322]

Sure. But much slower.

Not really, no

Look, you have your axe to grind, to you it's all Bonds. To me that seems absurd. Baseball is in decline right now for reasons that have nothing to do with steroids.

But it was cool chatting with you.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not really, no

Look, you have your axe to grind, to you it's all Bonds. To me that seems absurd. Baseball is in decline right now for reasons that have nothing to do with steroids.

But it was cool chatting with you.

sorry for this to sound like an axe to grind... I dont.. i have no problem with Bonds... Just sharing my observations...

Bonds was the biggest reason for the witch hunts...

and i definitely wonder how the steroid issue would have been handled if it wasn't for bonds...

I do believe that the witch hunts and cheating scandals are the biggest reason why the sport has lost so many fans... and it is known that there are steroids being rampantly used in other sports too... why is it that just baseball has the Cheating stigma...

that is because it was handled so poorly... and i think it was handled so poorly because of the demand to STOP bonds...

 

[msgkings322]

sorry for this to sound like an axe to grind... I dont.. i have no problem with Bonds... Just sharing my observations...

Bonds was the biggest reason for the witch hunts...

and i definitely wonder how the steroid issue would have been handled if it wasn't for bonds...

I do believe that the witch hunts and cheating scandals are the biggest reason why the sport has lost so many fans... and it is known that there are steroids being rampantly used in other sports too... why is it that just baseball has the Cheating stigma...

that is because it was handled so poorly... and i think it was handled so poorly because of the demand to STOP bonds...

I just don't agree with any of this...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I just don't agree with any of this...

never thought you would agree... maybe i am wrong... or maybe your Giant bias is in the way... either way, makes sense you wouldnt agree...

 

[msgkings322]

never thought you would agree... maybe i am wrong... or maybe your Giant bias is in the way... either way, makes sense you wouldnt agree...

I admit some bias but I just don't see how it all comes down to one guy. And again, it's not steroids making baseball slowly less popular

 

[wazzu31]

You're delusional.

Bonds: .298/.444/.607, 182 OPS+, 514 stolen bases (caught 141 times), 162.8 WAR
Griffey Jr.: .284/.370/.538, 136 OPS+, 184 stolen bases (caught 69 times) 83.8 WAR

Total career is a useless measure especially during the PED era. Are you really going to argue that Hank Aaron was a better player than Mickey Mantle? Is Paul Moliter better than Joe DiMaggio? Barry Bonds was the Johnny Damon of the early 90’s. Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase.

 

[msgkings322]

Total career is a useless measure especially during the PED era. Are you really going to argue that Hank Aaron was a better player than Mickey Mantle? Is Paul Moliter better than Joe DiMaggio? Barry Bonds was the Johnny Damon of the early 90’s. Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase.

How many MVPs did Johnny Damon win? Because Bonds won 3 in the early 90s. But do go on.

 

[Robotech]

Total career is a useless measure especially during the PED era. Are you really going to argue that Hank Aaron was a better player than Mickey Mantle? Is Paul Moliter better than Joe DiMaggio? Barry Bonds was the Johnny Damon of the early 90’s. Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase.

But Bonds doesn't just beat Griffey in career totals, he also had a better prime than Griffey, and he won 3 MVP's long before the PEDs. Griffey only 1 MVP for his whole career while Bonds won 7. Bonds is clearly the greater player.

Prior to PEDs, Bonds had 8 seasons of 8 or higher WAR. He then had 4 more such seasons after 1998. Griffey only had 3 seasons of 8 or higher WAR in his whole career.

 

[navamind]

Total career is a useless measure especially during the PED era. Are you really going to argue that Hank Aaron was a better player than Mickey Mantle? Is Paul Moliter better than Joe DiMaggio? Barry Bonds was the Johnny Damon of the early 90’s. Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase.

1990-99:
Bonds: .302/.434/.602, 179 OPS+, 343 stolen bases (caught 94 times), 80.2 WAR
Griffey Jr.: .302/.384/.581, 152 OPS+, 151 stolen bases (caught 53 times), 67.5 WAR

Even at Griffey's peak, Bonds was still far superior. Bonds was far better at getting on base, hitting for power, and he was a far better base stealer. Both were excellent fielders. In that case, I'll take the better hitter and runner.

Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase

Yeah, well, he didn't and he took shitty care of himself. The reality is Griffey Jr. is an inner circle HOFer, but he's not a top 20 player of all-time because he had poor conditioning. You don't see me pining for Ted Williams as the greatest player because of the years he missed to war. Mantle may have been a superior player to Aaron at their peaks, but Mantle broke down earlier and Aaron played at an elite level for nearly two decades. I'd say Aaron was the better player because of that.

 

[navamind]

How many MVPs did Johnny Damon win? Because Bonds won 3 in the early 90s. But do go on.

Oh yeah, and he still won more MVPs than Griffey in the 90's. Lolz.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Total career is a useless measure especially during the PED era. Are you really going to argue that Hank Aaron was a better player than Mickey Mantle? Is Paul Moliter better than Joe DiMaggio? Barry Bonds was the Johnny Damon of the early 90’s. Had Junior taken any PED like Barry did he would have hit 800 HR’s because all of the minor injuries that derailed his career homerun chase.

Didn't you also say the Mariners offense cost Felix the hall of fame?

If Griffey were a Giant and Bonds were a Mariner, 100% chance you'd be singing a different tune...

 

[pachyderm]

Did Bonds Ruin baseball

No, Marvin Miller did.

Marvin Miller - Wikipedia

I don't think it's ruined, not completely anyway.

I don't like the fact that the union is so strong and they can pull off strikes like they do.

I also don't like the fact that the owners, past and present, are so greedy that they forced the players hands on this issue.

But Bonds isn't alone on the blame.

Many, many more are also culpable.

 

[pachyderm]

Mac was always big, Bonds was not.

Yeah I'm thinking Mac got his steroid start a little sooner than Bonds...

 

[richig07]

Baseball only really become the K/HR game this past decade. The 90's and early 00's still saw plenty of small ball, minimal shifting, etc. Ball was in play much more.

Steroids didn't create three true outcome baseball. Sabermetrics did.

 

[Hitman Hart]

Oh, I believe it. There's simply nothing endearing about Barry Bonds or the way he cheated. The way he did it, why he did it, how he treated everyone around him, and that he did it to try to snag such an important record.

Took steroid usage to a near art form in his deception. Lied about it, threw other players under the bus, etc.


The guy tipped pitches to players on the other team so that he could get similar info and inflate his HR totals. He once even screamed in a 3rd baseman's ear so that he'd drop a pop fly as he ran past.

and still being smooth enough to completely rehabilitate his image

#impressed

 

[Mofo]

and still being smooth enough to completely rehabilitate his image

#impressed

Just what baseball needed!