Did Bonds Ruin baseball

[Mofo]

and I think Clemens, who is the second poster boy, was not as clear career wise that he did steroids...

you can easily say that he pitched well in Houston because it was the NL and Houston, a dryer and warmer place than Toronto, Boston and NY... the three places he played...

He did it. His BS story about his wife the bodybuilder was as egregious as Manny Ramirez's that he was taking fertility drugs by accident.

When in doubt, look at the player's power numbers, or in Clemens's case, velocity. Clemens saw his power drop to a plateau, not a measurable decline as you would expect from other pitchers. He was a skilled guy and his split-finger fastball was near-unhittable when it was on (and moving). That combined with his good health meant Clemens saw a lot of innings. A 40+ yr-old pitcher who was tops in the league is unheard of for a reason. What I think is unclear about Clemens is exactly how long he was cheating. Like most of the thing about the steroid era in baseball, it's one of the things that many just don't want to know- just like how widespread it was.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He did it. His BS story about his wife the bodybuilder was as egregious as Manny Ramirez's that he was taking fertility drugs by accident.

When in doubt, look at the player's power numbers, or in Clemens's case, velocity. Clemens saw his power drop to a plateau, not a measurable decline as you would expect from other pitchers. He was a skilled guy and his split-finger fastball was near-unhittable when it was on (and moving). That combined with his good health meant Clemens saw a lot of innings. A 40+ yr-old pitcher who was tops in the league is unheard of for a reason. What I think is unclear about Clemens is exactly how long he was cheating. Like most of the thing about the steroid era in baseball, it's one of the things that many just don't want to know- just like how widespread it was.

oh, I am not dismissing that he did it... I am just talking about at the time... you look at a 40+ year old pitcher having some elite seasons... But when so many factors change in his advantage, you can understand him having good seasons... Even great ones...

 

[Kaplony]

No.


Bonds was just a symptom of one of the diseases that killed baseball. The blind eye baseball took towards steroids, the 94 strike, and the battle of who could be the greediest between the owners and the players union was what killed baseball.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Fans were in denial with Sammy and Mac...Mac was always pretty big and Sammy was young and it wasn't so crazy to think he got so big just from lifting hard and filling out. Things were just too obvious with Bonds. They were all scumbags, but I blame Sosa and Mac more because Bonds started juicing because he was jealous of all the attention they were getting.

I hear there is a forthcoming E:60 on the 3 players' penises and the impact on them

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Mac was always big, Bonds was not.

Bonds was a HOF'er pre-steroids usage. The way he changed physically and the total unabashed dick he became hurt him

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

but Sosa/McGwire saved baseball from the original strike... Bonds was the villain that created the need to END the steroid era... and it was the witch hunt that Killed baseball... Without bonds, I don't think there would have been a witch hunt...

The HR chase definitely drew fans back. 1998 was a great season period

 

[Mofo]

I guess that's where I disagree... Because Steroids first saved baseball... so it cant kill it... something had to change.. from the time it was saved and to the point that we are claiming that killed it...

Bonds was a villain who clearly was taking something, and broke a record way too soon after it was broken... Made people uncomfortable... Even during the record breaking season, they were trying to take down Bonds with the steroids accusations... Sure, they did the same to McGwire, but for big mac, it was a brush off, and the fans came back to root for him...

It was still too new when McGwire and Sosa were in their slugfest competition. Most people couldn't even pronounce the name of what McGwire was using (androstenedione), and there was no shortage of apologists at the time, who were pointing out that the substances weren't even outlawed. MLB had simply the worst PED policy of any major sport- lack of rules, lack of enforcement, thousands of loopholes. It was just something no one wanted to talk about, because HRs were fun and the sport needed fans to return.

Nobody outside of SF was ever rooting for bonds... Bonds breaking the record, showed people how Steroids was cheating... and showed how out of hand the steroids issue was...


and then after that season, bonds next 3 seasons were of the best seasons of all time... not just by bonds... that doesn't just happen to a guy going into his 40s...

Think so? I think a lot of casual fans got excited by the whole thing. Sure, anyone who wasn't new to baseball and lived outside of SF knew that the guy was cheating at the time. A large portion of the disdain was that Bonds was breaking Hank Aaron's career record, and Aaron was widely viewed to have been a much nicer guy than Bonds.

MLB's biggest problem, across its lifetime, is a perceived need to tinker with itself. For every decent improvement, such as night games, there's a dozen stupid bonehead changes, like wearing shorts, video review or juicing the ball.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

It was still too new when McGwire and Sosa were in their slugfest competition. Most people couldn't even pronounce the name of what McGwire was using (androstenedione), and there was no shortage of apologists at the time, who were pointing out that the substances weren't even outlawed. MLB had simply the worst PED policy of any major sport- lack of rules, lack of enforcement, thousands of loopholes. It was just something no one wanted to talk about, because HRs were fun and the sport needed fans to return.

Think so? I think a lot of casual fans got excited by the whole thing. Sure, anyone who wasn't new to baseball and lived outside of SF knew that the guy was cheating at the time. A large portion of the disdain was that Bonds was breaking Hank Aaron's career record, and Aaron was widely viewed to have been a much nicer guy than Bonds.

MLB's biggest problem, across its lifetime, is a perceived need to tinker with itself. For every decent improvement, such as night games, there's a dozen stupid bonehead changes, like wearing shorts, video review or juicing the ball.

Well stated

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Bonds was a HOF'er pre-steroids usage. The way he changed physically and the total unabashed dick he became hurt him

I am sorry, that wasn't entirely accurate. Bonds was already a dick

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

You can just as easily blame Brady Anderson. Stick figure lead off hitter suddenly hits 50 HR'?

C'mon

 

[gohusk]

What, they weren't supposed to cover the BALCO scandal?

 

[Mofo]

I am sorry, that wasn't entirely accurate. Bonds was already a dick

"More of a dick" I think he meant. Bonds had his own private area in the locker room in SF, wouldn't talk to other players and wore a suit of armor when batting.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You can just as easily blame Brady Anderson. Stick figure lead off hitter suddenly hits 50 HR'?

C'mon

but there has been many one year wonders... and that is all Brady was... Nobody cared about him ever...


and I know it is not fair how I am blaming it bonds... But lets face it, he was the poster boy of the steroid era... and he was TOO successful using it...

 

[Mofo]

You can just as easily blame Brady Anderson. Stick figure lead off hitter suddenly hits 50 HR'?

C'mon

Yeah, I included Brady in my analysis. The guy had only broken the 20 HR mark once before that, and suddenly hit 50. "Nothing was ever proven though..."

 

[podsox]

Barry bonds was must see tv during his run. We will never see anything like it. Just because he was the best on the juice doesn’t make him the most guilty

 

[Carnzo]

I liked the cocaine years more than the steroid period.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

but there has been many one year wonders... and that is all Brady was... Nobody cared about him ever...


and I know it is not fair how I am blaming it bonds... But lets face it, he was the poster boy of the steroid era... and he was TOO successful using it...

You will never catch me defending Bonds. Sure, there were many many players who were caught, and likely more that were never caught who used. Bonds was IMO the proverbial smoking gun. He looked, acted, and performed like someone who was using. To make matters worse, he was defiant about it and his career arc was peaking right about the time we (the fans) decided PED's were bad after all.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

I liked the cocaine years more than the steroid period.

The NY Mets say they love you!!!!!

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Barry bonds was must see tv during his run. We will never see anything like it. Just because he was the best on the juice doesn’t make him the most guilty

see, that's where this is weird... I am not claiming he is the most guilty.... Not at all... I am claiming that his guilt was the most damaging to baseball... whether it was the timing, the fact he was a villain already, or whatever...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You will never catch me defending Bonds. Sure, there were many many players who were caught, and likely more that were never caught who used. Bonds was IMO the proverbial smoking gun. He looked, acted, and performed like someone who was using. To make matters worse, he was defiant about it and his career arc was peaking right about the time we (the fans) decided PED's were bad after all.

to add to that he had some of the best seasons of all time using... Not just one season, like Big Mac... and big mac was only about the HRs... Bonds had 4 seasons...

 

[Carnzo]

The NY Mets say they love you!!!!!

Strawberry and all were amazing to watch even as a Red Sox fan