Defense is becoming a problem

[tzill]

Not Ross breaking in on the broken bat triple, but Steady Freddy making two more errors last night, bringing the Giant's total in the last five games to:

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. That's been the most frustrating part of how the Giants were built post-Bonds. Big ball park, good young pitching, so it stands to reason that Sabean would go after the best fielders and fasted high OBP guys he could find. That hasn't been the case, and it is quite obviously the most glaring deficiency on the team. If only they didn't have so much money tied up in Rowand, Zito and DeRosa, I would be optimistic about out-bidding the Yankees for Carl Crawford. He is an amazing athlete in his prime, capable of being effective in any of the top 3 spots in the line-up.

 

[tzill]

Yeah. That's been the most frustrating part of how the Giants were built post-Bonds. Big ball park, good young pitching, so it stands to reason that Sabean would go after the best fielders and fasted high OBP guys he could find. That hasn't been the case, and it is quite obviously the most glaring deficiency on the team. If only they didn't have so much money tied up in Rowand, Zito and DeRosa, I would be optimistic about out-bidding the Yankees for Carl Crawford. He is an amazing athlete in his prime, capable of being effective in any of the top 3 spots in the line-up.

I don't think DeRosa's contract is a major problem. Zeets and Gamer....

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. It's only one more year, and there isn't a ton of money left on it, but it's still money being spent on a guy that isn't playing, and was pegged to mostly play LF, where Carl Crawford would take over if we lived in a perfect world full of Bay Area sports dominance.

 

[Heathbar012]

Actually, it seems shortstop is a more pressing issue, but I don't think there is a team in MLB that wouldn't love to have Carl Crawford on their team. It should be an interesting off-season, regardless. I wouldn't mind seeing everyone but Guillen, Renteria and Uribe (because of the expected price) return next year. If DeRosa is healthy that could make for a pretty strong outfield and infield platoon. Who do you think Sabean will target at short?

 

[msgkings322]

Hate to say it but Tito has been banging the 'we should be built on speed' drum for a while, underneath his insanity.

 

[filosofy29]

Actually, it seems shortstop is a more pressing issue, but I don't think there is a team in MLB that wouldn't love to have Carl Crawford on their team. It should be an interesting off-season, regardless. I wouldn't mind seeing everyone but Guillen, Renteria and Uribe (because of the expected price) return next year. If DeRosa is healthy that could make for a pretty strong outfield and infield platoon. Who do you think Sabean will target at short?

That's a great question. Do any of you feckers in here have a link to the 2011 free agent list?

And to MSG, I think a lot of people always thought that the Giants should be built on pitching, defense and speed once they moved into the new park. Tito just harps on it non-stop and hasn't come to grips with the reality that is currently in the field. Believe me, I'd love to have a Denard Span and a Carl Crawford out there.....I just don't see it happening.

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah. I definitely have agreed with him on that. It's really easy to say what needs to be done and then claim that you'll never spend money on the team anymore. Seems counter-productive to me. Or spiteful. Or both. He also has had good insights on the problems at the plate that Ishi and Nate have experienced. There is certainly some accidental analysis that occurs when he watches a baseball game. There is just a giant disconnect (no pun intended) between the change that is needed and how to accomplish it.

 

[Heathbar012]

Cot's Baseball Contracts: Potential Free Agents for 2011

 

[msgkings322]

Well, we did/do have Burriss. And we had Rajai Davis.

So maybe the brass isn't as much into the speed?

 

[Heathbar012]

Speed doesn't matter much if you're only on base 28-31% of the time. There is a huge difference between an OBP of .310 and even .330 when talking about a guy that runs the bases and steals well. Giving up on Rajai might have been a mistake, but if I recall correctly, they needed to make room on the 40-man roster for somebody. Since I can't remember who that was, can we assume that it was someone important? No? Didn't think so. .

 

[Heathbar012]

As far as the shortstop question, the only players that would likely be an improvement over a platoon of Uribe/Fontenot/Burriss? would probably be Alex Gonzalez or Jhonny Peralta. And Peralta might be a stretch. I'm assuming Rollins or the Phillies exercise whatever option is on the table. Same goes for Reyes and the Mets. The market is looking pretty thin. Apparently, there is an option for Renteria, too. Though, I don't really look at that option as an option.

 

[Heathbar012]

That's a great question. Do any of you feckers in here have a link to the 2011 free agent list?

And to MSG, I think a lot of people always thought that the Giants should be built on pitching, defense and speed once they moved into the new park. Tito just harps on it non-stop and hasn't come to grips with the reality that is currently in the field. Believe me, I'd love to have a Denard Span and a Carl Crawford out there.....I just don't see it happening.

Two years ago, I was wondering what it would take for the Giants to pry Span away from the Twins. Don't they owe Sabean for the A.J. trade?

 

[filosofy29]

Hate to say it but Tito has been banging the 'we should be built on speed' drum for a while, underneath his insanity.

.....and there you have it MSG, now Tito thinks that Velez is a base stealer.

ESPN.com: San Francisco Giants Message Board

Apparently Tito has the ability to see what the needs are (or the current problems of the Giants are), but he has zero idea of how to fix it.

 

[msgkings322]

.....and there you have it MSG, now Tito thinks that Velez is a base stealer.

ESPN.com: San Francisco Giants Message Board

Apparently Tito has the ability to see what the needs are (or the current problems of the Giants are), but he has zero idea of how to fix it.

Yeah, saw that. Velez is like Burriss, fast but can't get on base.

Podsednik is ok but gets caught a lot stealing too, I don't think he strikes fear in anyone.

The Giants making the playoffs this year would feel only slightly better than knowing how much that would piss off Tito.

 

[tzill]

Actually, it seems shortstop is a more pressing issue, but I don't think there is a team in MLB that wouldn't love to have Carl Crawford on their team. It should be an interesting off-season, regardless. I wouldn't mind seeing everyone but Guillen, Renteria and Uribe (because of the expected price) return next year. If DeRosa is healthy that could make for a pretty strong outfield and infield platoon. Who do you think Sabean will target at short?

First, I don't think UUU is going to command a big contract this offseason. He's 31 (32 at the start of next season), he's got limited range at SS, and he's a career 260/300/430 guy. He doesn't hit for enough power to be a DH in the AL, and he'd be a mediocre starter at 3b. He's a really good utility guy, and those guys don't (usually) get big contracts. I'd guess something like 2 years/$10MM. I'd bring him back for that.

Second, I agree about Crawford but as you say we won't have the money to sign him to a 5 year/ $80MM contract that he'll likely get.

As for who we let go, my guess: Burrell, Guillen, Rent, Ishi

Who we'll keep:
C- Buster, Whitey
IF - Huff, Franchez, Fontenot, Panda, DeRosa, UUU
OF - Torres, Nate, Belt, Rowand, Ross
SP - Timmy, Zeets, Cain, Chez, Bum
RP - Weez, Romo, Affeldt, Ramirez, Ray, Lopez, Runzler

That's how 2011 looks to me right now, anyway.

 

[Heathbar012]

First, I don't think UUU is going to command a big contract this offseason. He's 31 (32 at the start of next season), he's got limited range at SS, and he's a career 260/300/430 guy. He doesn't hit for enough power to be a DH in the AL, and he'd be a mediocre starter at 3b. He's a really good utility guy, and those guys don't (usually) get big contracts. I'd guess something like 2 years/$10MM. I'd bring him back for that.

Second, I agree about Crawford but as you say we won't have the money to sign him to a 5 year/ $80MM contract that he'll likely get.

As for who we let go, my guess: Burrell, Guillen, Rent, Ishi

Who we'll keep:
C- Buster, Whitey
IF - Huff, Franchez, Fontenot, Panda, DeRosa, UUU
OF - Torres, Nate, Belt, Rowand, Ross
SP - Timmy, Zeets, Cain, Chez, Bum
RP - Weez, Romo, Affeldt, Ramirez, Ray, Lopez, Runzler

That's how 2011 looks to me right now, anyway.

Agreed. Is that good enough at short though? I guess a Uribe/Fontenot platoon is alright given the players around them. It seems Gonzalez or Peralta wouldn't be enough of an improvement to warrant letting Uribe walk and having Fontenot and DeRosa take over the utility role. We'll see. How close do you think Wheeler is? Any hope for next season, making one of the starting pitchers expendable to bring back a quality shortstop? I would assume 2012 would be their target with him, but I thought 2011 was the target for MadBum. Is there talk of him getting a September call-up? He's probably right around his max innings pitched for the year already. Did I just answer all of my own questions?

 

[tzill]

As far as the shortstop question, the only players that would likely be an improvement over a platoon of Uribe/Fontenot/Burriss? would probably be Alex Gonzalez or Jhonny Peralta. And Peralta might be a stretch. I'm assuming Rollins or the Phillies exercise whatever option is on the table. Same goes for Reyes and the Mets. The market is looking pretty thin. Apparently, there is an option for Renteria, too. Though, I don't really look at that option as an option.

I think JJ Hardy would also be an upgrade, although not a huge one.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed. Is that good enough at short though? I guess a Uribe/Fontenot platoon is alright given the players around them. It seems Gonzalez or Peralta wouldn't be enough of an improvement to warrant letting Uribe walk and having Fontenot and DeRosa take over the utility role. We'll see. How close do you think Wheeler is? Any hope for next season, making one of the starting pitchers expendable to bring back a quality shortstop? I would assume 2012 would be their target with him, but I thought 2011 was the target for MadBum. Is there talk of him getting a September call-up? He's probably right around his max innings pitched for the year already. Did I just answer all of my own questions?

LOL....even that last one.

 

[tzill]

Agreed. Is that good enough at short though? I guess a Uribe/Fontenot platoon is alright given the players around them. It seems Gonzalez or Peralta wouldn't be enough of an improvement to warrant letting Uribe walk and having Fontenot and DeRosa take over the utility role. We'll see. How close do you think Wheeler is? Any hope for next season, making one of the starting pitchers expendable to bring back a quality shortstop? I would assume 2012 would be their target with him, but I thought 2011 was the target for MadBum. Is there talk of him getting a September call-up? He's probably right around his max innings pitched for the year already. Did I just answer all of my own questions?

I think Wheeler will get a Sept callup next year. 2012/13 is his projected rotation appearance. Hopefully he makes Zito tradeable, and I think we're entering into a window of tradeability for Barry as his contract nears its conclusion.