Dana goes some fixin' to do

[GoldRusher]

That's what I get out of it as well, no changes for now, but if the product doesn't get better very soon, BIG changes.

 

[bbwvfan]

That's what I get out of it as well, no changes for now, but if the product doesn't get better very soon, BIG changes.

I think he has next year to show real progress... and, if there is another beatdown year like this one... all confidence is lost.

Like we have hashed over all season, there are too many factors which may be major contributors to the outcome.

For his sake, and that of the team... I hope all signs are positive next year. Cuz it sure is crappy watching football knowing my team ain't even part of the discussion this year. Unless it is to ask... how did Okie St ever lose to WVU?

Then it feels like a punch to the gut...

 

[Slaton10]

As I wrote earlier, based solely on the fact that Luck did not knee jerk react yesterday, I can only assume he looked deep into the program and what he saw was what his vision of the football program is to become. I can accept that. I might not feel real comfortable with it, but he has got more actual facts in front of him than I ever will. It will never stop those who have lost complete faith tho, and if the losing continues, there will be a ground swell of pissed off Mountaineers calling for both their heads. That is historical in Mountaineer land. Lived through one of those upheavals, and it weren't pretty. Pastilong survived, Cignetti didn't.

When Nehlen became head coach, we all knew then that it would take 7 to 10 years to fix the mess. We built a new stadium, we improved things as the money became available, to attract the top tier athletes. It was not an easy time, but Nehlen came here with near impeccable references, including old Bo Schem, that was a ringing endorsement to all of us. It's hard seeing a similar pattern with Holgerson. We have invested heavily in facilities as money became available, and there is more work to do to make WVU as attractive as our Big 12 schools. Nehlen came in with the cupboard stripped bare, and little more than a modernized stadium, his biggest selling point was the homespun family atmosphere the community surrounding the campus brought, and a long legacy of academic excellence that is just as highly ranked today. We don't get near enough credit for that. Holgerson was not present with a completely bare roster, there are certainly problems, but he inherited a team full of upperclass talent, and he used it, I cheered, even with my doubts as to personal character, but that was sour grapes from seeing past temper tantrums at Houston, TT and OSU.

Suffice to say, Luck has determined we are on the right course. Anything more is pure speculation depending on our individual opinions. I hope recruiting continues to reap talent, and that we can translate some of that talent to a winning product on the field.

[B][U]Nehlen came in with the cupboard stripped bare[/U], and little more than a modernized stadium, his biggest selling point was the homespun family atmosphere the community surrounding the campus brought, and a long legacy of academic excellence that is just as highly ranked today[/B].
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That my friend is not entirely accurate.....
 
Wv had [U]all [/U]of their scholarships filled and they included the likes of:
 
Oliver Luck,Robert Alexander,Fulton Walker,Garnett Edwards, Delbert Fowler,Mike Durrette,  Cedric King, Curlin Beck, Walter Easley, Darryl Talley, Dennis Fowlkes, Tim Agee and Mark Raugh...just to name a few..
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Holgerson was not present with a completely bare roster,

.......and that is not entirely true either....Thanks to Rich and TowMater ( That was for you Jimmiepens where ever you are!)..the program has had scholarship reductions due to NCAA sanctions and Stew never once filled a recuiting class..and Rich started the mess with a class of only 15 his second year in.........hence the reason Dana is rumaging thru the Juco's looking for depth currently.....

 

[JIMKOON]

[B][U]Nehlen came in with the cupboard stripped bare[/U], and little more than a modernized stadium, his biggest selling point was the homespun family atmosphere the community surrounding the campus brought, and a long legacy of academic excellence that is just as highly ranked today[/B].
[/HTML[B][U]] [/U][/B]
[B][/B] 
That my friend is not entirely accurate.....
 
Wv had [U]all [/U]of their scholarships filled and they included the likes of:
 
Oliver Luck,Robert Alexander,Fulton Walker,Garnett Edwards, Delbert Fowler,Mike Durrette,  Cedric King, Curlin Beck, Walter Easley, Darryl Talley, Dennis Fowlkes, Tim Agee and Mark Raugh...just to name a few..
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Holgerson was not present with a completely bare roster,

.......and that is not entirely true either....Thanks to Rich and TowMater ( That was for you Jimmiepens where ever you are!)..the program has had scholarship reductions due to NCAA sanctions and Stew never once filled a recuiting class..and Rich started the mess with a class of only 15 his second year in.........hence the reason Dana is rumaging thru the Juco's looking for depth currently.....

If I am wrong, but I have always thought that Nehlen recruited each of those players. Talley and Alexander where guests in my home many times over their years at WVU. I have countless pictures of them both playing with my son and his friends in 1982 at St. Francis Elementary School. So, if those were ALL recruits of Cignetti, your right Nehlen's cupboard was not bare. Were not all of these freshman Nehlen's first year? If they were than Cignetti was a damn fine recruiter, but as best I can recall, and I readily admit i could be wrong, Nehlen signed all those you mentioned.

I was completely aware of the sanctions, but in all honesty, I thought Bill Stewart was hampered by those to, once more, maybe bad memory, and as I recall, he felt the talent available was not worth wasting scholarships on, and maybe, just maybe, he was right given the amount of defections and those who couldn't cut the grade standards, that he did get, but never played. It's tough to feel that the cupboard was so bare for Holgerson when he comes in rather unexpectedly and leads the team to a share of the Big East, and a bowl beatdown of historic levels. Yes, I know, there was limited upperclassmen his first full year in the Big 12. Yes, we were freshman laden on defense. Yes, we had limited depth everywhere. I get it. I get he used JUCO's of the best he could recruit to rapidly fill some of those voids. But where did it all come unglued? For all the sell we got on Trickett, he wasn't anything represented, but he filled a spot on the roster well. Who recruited Millard? Isn't Childress a Stewart carryover? What happened to Dustin Garrison? I know Bill Stewart recruited him, I attended his signing at Pearland High School. What about the wide receivers this past season? Who recruited them? Now I'm not belittling anybody. I just wanna know. You guys have a pretty strong opinion that with the sanctions under RR, and failure of Stewart to use all available scholarships, that the entire failure for this past season falls 100 yards away from Holgerson, and if I have been totally wrong, I can admit it. But, with my very limited knowledge of the history of events, Holgerson had a nice stable to play with rather oddly right out of the box. Nehlen's first 10 years, even with the players you point out, were not that overwelming. The WVU Alumni group in northern Brazoria County Texas, kept up a strong line of information. It is where the group of 78 came from. Alot of doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers and indian chiefs, for sure. So it would be hard for me to say we were all so misinformed.

I hate getting old, I hate being written off as past my prime, but, I am. Maybe I just ask the wrong questions, or maybe I shouldn't ask any, but I have learned that any small group can project their particular slant on things, that other small groups do not agree with. I happened to enjoy the debate here. I did not like particularly pointing out my disgust with Dana Holgerson, I do loathe him, but if Mr. Luck says he is the man to carry us, then really, who am I to refute his claim, nobody, that's what I am, an old withered up nobody.

 

[Slaton10]

If I am wrong, but I have always thought that Nehlen recruited each of those players. Talley and Alexander where guests in my home many times over their years at WVU. I have countless pictures of them both playing with my son and his friends in 1982 at St. Francis Elementary School. So, if those were ALL recruits of Cignetti, your right Nehlen's cupboard was not bare. Were not all of these freshman Nehlen's first year? If they were than Cignetti was a damn fine recruiter, but as best I can recall, and I readily admit i could be wrong, Nehlen signed all those you mentioned.

I was completely aware of the sanctions, but in all honesty, I thought Bill Stewart was hampered by those to, once more, maybe bad memory, and as I recall, he felt the talent available was not worth wasting scholarships on, and maybe, just maybe, he was right given the amount of defections and those who couldn't cut the grade standards, that he did get, but never played. It's tough to feel that the cupboard was so bare for Holgerson when he comes in rather unexpectedly and leads the team to a share of the Big East, and a bowl beatdown of historic levels. Yes, I know, there was limited upperclassmen his first full year in the Big 12. Yes, we were freshman laden on defense. Yes, we had limited depth everywhere. I get it. I get he used JUCO's of the best he could recruit to rapidly fill some of those voids. But where did it all come unglued? For all the sell we got on Trickett, he wasn't anything represented, but he filled a spot on the roster well. Who recruited Millard? Isn't Childress a Stewart carryover? What happened to Dustin Garrison? I know Bill Stewart recruited him, I attended his signing at Pearland High School. What about the wide receivers this past season? Who recruited them? Now I'm not belittling anybody. I just wanna know. You guys have a pretty strong opinion that with the sanctions under RR, and failure of Stewart to use all available scholarships, that the entire failure for this past season falls 100 yards away from Holgerson, and if I have been totally wrong, I can admit it. But, with my very limited knowledge of the history of events, Holgerson had a nice stable to play with rather oddly right out of the box. Nehlen's first 10 years, even with the players you point out, were not that overwelming. The WVU Alumni group in northern Brazoria County Texas, kept up a strong line of information. It is where the group of 78 came from. Alot of doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers and indian chiefs, for sure. So it would be hard for me to say we were all so misinformed.

I hate getting old, I hate being written off as past my prime, but, I am. Maybe I just ask the wrong questions, or maybe I shouldn't ask any, but I have learned that any small group can project their particular slant on things, that other small groups do not agree with. I happened to enjoy the debate here. I did not like particularly pointing out my disgust with Dana Holgerson, I do loathe him, but if Mr. Luck says he is the man to carry us, then really, who am I to refute his claim, nobody, that's what I am, an old withered up nobody.

[B][U]So, if those were ALL recruits of Cignetti, your right Nehlen's cupboard was not bare[/U][/B]
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99% were Cignetti's recruits and upper classmen..the other 1% you could say were Cignetti's due to being Nehlens first year and he had little to do with the Freshman class that year... 
 
[HTML] 
I was completely aware of the sanctions, but in all honesty, I thought Bill Stewart was hampered by those to, once more, maybe bad memory, and as I recall, he felt the talent available was not worth wasting scholarships on, and maybe, just maybe, he was right given the amount of defections and those who couldn't cut the grade standards

Stewart didn't feel the sanctions until his last year on the job...however when you have coaching changes you have kids either change their minds in coming to the program ( see Pryor) or leave not wanting to play for that particular coach..grades etc... but thats the point the more you change coaches this perpetuates itself into a tsunami that has no end...see Tennessee..recruiting is all about momentum and stability if a program doesn't show it then maybe they get lucky and have a few good seasons every now and then...IMHO no coach at this particular time would be winning at Wv right now...I have said it time and time again on the CBS site that the affects of Rich Rod would be felt for years to come...and we are still feeling it..

 It's tough to feel that the cupboard was so bare for Holgerson when he comes in rather unexpectedly and leads the team to a share of the Big East, and a bowl beatdown of historic levels

He's not the first to lead a team to a superior season with another coaches recruits...see Gus Mahlzan Auburn..see Gene Chizick Auburn...See Brady Hoke Michigan..See Kevin Sumlin TAMU..See the Vest Ohio State....see Les Miles LSU.....the only coach that I can think of that turned around a program in no time with his own kids and put them in the national title hunt was.........RICH RODRIGUEZ...

Nehlen's first 10 years, even with the players you point out, were not that overwelming.

Ahh...you can't say that brother... everyone of those players I mentioned ended up on an NFL roster...Dana had 3 kids on NFL rosters from last years team...

I hate getting old, I hate being written off as past my prime, but, I am. Maybe I just ask the wrong questions, or maybe I shouldn't ask any, but I have learned that any small group can project their particular slant on things, that other small groups do not agree with. I happened to enjoy the debate here.

Ahh don't take so personally...we all feel the same...btw BBW is one of the best people I know...it's just alot of us are refugee's from the CBS boards were we were in all out wars with other posters who supported other programs and they were all incredibly knowledgeable not only about their schools...but ours as well!!.....so they would call bullshit when they smelled it and expected us as Wv fans to have our facts straight...so excuse BBW if he gets excited..it has CBS war flashbacks from time to time!!........but he does know his shizza!..don't tell him I said that!!..

I did not like particularly pointing out my disgust with Dana Holgerson, I do loathe him

I guess I would want to why....I find him pretty transparent which is everything Rich wasn't....even by comparison everyone said Rich as arrogant..which he was but it didn't seem to bother anyone...Dana is arrogant but it does bother people for some reason...Rich would get up in front of a press conference and tell you nothing...Dana tells you everything...Rich was chariming in his own way...I find Dana extremely funny...he has a bizzare sense of humor which no one seems to pick up on...I think Rich stopped making Wv a #1 priorty and made himself his #1 priorty when he inquired about the Kentucky and Alabama Jobs....no question in my mind Dana's priority is WEST VIRGINIA FOOTBALL...he HATES losing...but the difference between he and Rich...Rich ran at the first sign of adversity...Dana is embracing it and I beleive will work tirelessly to get this turned around...isn't that the kind of HC you want at West Virginia?

 

[DCWV4life]

I guess I would want to why....I find him pretty transparent which is everything Rich wasn't....even by comparison everyone said Rich as arrogant..which he was but it didn't seem to bother anyone...Dana is arrogant but it does bother people for some reason...Rich would get up in front of a press conference and tell you nothing...Dana tells you everything...Rich was chariming in his own way...I find Dana extremely funny...he has a bizzare sense of humor which no one seems to pick up on...I think Rich stopped making Wv a #1 priorty and made himself his #1 priorty when he inquired about the Kentucky and Alabama Jobs....no question in my mind Dana's priority is WEST VIRGINIA FOOTBALL...he HATES losing...but the difference between he and Rich...Rich ran at the first sign of adversity...Dana is embracing it and I beleive will work tirelessly to get this turned around...isn't that the kind of HC you want at West Virginia?:scratch:[/quote]
 
DH is paying for the wrong some thought was done to Stew, plain and simple...from the media to some of the fan base.
 
This situation cracks me up and I love that no one addresses it....RR and Stew both went 5-2 their last year in the BE, enter first time HCDH (who by the way was thrown into the situation because of lack of class) he has the same record as both of these cough cough well respected coaches in his first season.  With no exp. he came in a won 10 games and a BCS game....only thing that changed is the conf we play in.  DH had no one to fall back on for advice when it comes to anything on this..his exp was a OC in the Big 12 and we want him to make all the right decisions from day one.  Just does not happen that way.
 
Then our faithful fans fall back to our winning tradition and say we can't have this guy..he is a program ender, worse WVU football ever..anybody realize that 4 times under Don we had about the same three year run as we are having now 86-88 21 wins,89-91 18 wins, 95-97 20 wins, 98-00 19 wins yet we managed to move o, he also had three 4 win seasons...I have no problems saying this our tradition is lackluster at best.  Dandy Don is the best we have to offer and lets face it he was average at WVU at best...yet we hold a third year HC to the ultimate standard of coaching.
 
Yes the guy has made mistakes, so has Saban and every other head coach out there.  Hell Saban didn't win a bowl and won less games than DH his first three years. Let the guy grow into the roll, going to pay off in the long run for us. IMO
 
See you boys in Atlanta.

 

[bbwvfan]

We have addressed the split in the fanbase before. I think DC is right about a good majority of the Dana haters. They were pissed that Luck would fire a coach with 3 nine win seasons. They loved Stewart and the way he lead the team, and they want Luck to hold Dana to the same standard... the national championship, exciting football and fans in the seats... comments made at Luck's presser introducing Dana as the HCIW.


As a result of bringing Dana onboard, this segment has been celebrating each perceived failure of the WVU football team. It is sickening.


There are some now who want Dana fired because of the embarrassing losses to KU and ISU. I read and hear such comments like WVU should have been able to beat either team with 9 players on the field.


The kids deserve better fans. Even if you hate Dana... hate Luck... these kids have sacrificed to represent WVU. They deserve better than 33,000 for a final home game to recognize the seniors... some of whom were a part of the program for 5 years.

 

[JIMKOON]

I grow weary of explaining my dislike of Dana Holgerson, my opinion of him goes back YEARS before his hiring at WVU, and absolutely nothing to do with the firing of Bill Stewart, a man for whom I have professed until blue in face, was NOT qualified to be the head coach, even given the fact he was my friend. And there is zero happiness in the failure of this program, none, in fact, it may hurt even more deeply than you shallow representations and character attacks.

I HATE losing, and while our individual opinions may differ, have to believe that most of you do also. But unlike you, there are some who see things from a very different point of view. Show me one team in history of college football that embraced with the support you call for, losing? When I went to games in my youth and WVU was little more than average at best, old Mountaineer Field was half full for most games. Big crowds for Pitt and Penn St, fans would go not so much for the possibility of a win, but to show utter disgust for those hated rivals. But for the most part, nobody really cared about the rest. And that is what losing breeds, a sorrowful contempt when those who are struggling financially anyways, to take hard earned, needed dollars to go cheer, losing? Is that so hard to understand for you.

If our unyielding support is the driving force with which young men we have given a free ride to a lifetime educational boost is what you pleade for BB, it will neve4r happen this side of the Mississippi when some of the families whose children are also students, are supporting WVU by their paid tuition, fees, books and such, have to weigh their expenditures, yes, in a losing season, they will stay away, BUT instead of giving the real reason, they will find the easy road of castigating a coach, or an AD, or even the lack of character of some of the players. It's a punish all for ill feelings for a few mentality, when people are so challenged by financial necessity. Some times we as an entire nation look to something that is failure to elevate our own despair. So don't be so quick to castigate without knowing all the facts about the individual who may seem quick to rip losing.

But that is how these things always go in these online blog, in fact it happens all too often in many opinions, we chide people for their opinions of the coach when it does not agree with our own, we chide people for their thoughts about the past, whether glorious or not. You say it is calling out someone, leveling ugly names, and then when all else have failed, you play out the card of "The kids deserve better fans", well that is tantamount in my world that someone who sells me something that turns out not to be of the quality for which I expected, that I should be thankful just because I got it, and continue to support that purchase. I have no grand illussion that you will understand that, and as much as it grinds on me like chalk on a chalk board, I do not expect you to change our opinion. You like writing in short bursts, making fun of people and don't enjoy being called to the carpet for your opposing opinions of others. Well, I don't either. Another of the many things I have never enjoyed was having bits and pieces of my opinions pulled out to feed someone's needed point of view, without taking into account the body of my statements. If that makes ya feel better, go for it, but it is very degrading of ones thoughts, and it is very shortsighted on those who would choose to do so, but, as I have discovered, that gives some the ability to defer opinion, not understand it. Well that streetcar travels both ways.

Not pissed BB, angry that my words, however confused it may seem, whatever the mountain of medical fog I have to attempt to push through, are twisted by men who do not know me, just as I really don't know you. I am wrong in my recall sometimes, yes, but my intent is only to seek the best of what WVU can be, my rather personal disgust for Dana Holgerson does not have a lot to do with his tenure at WVU, it goes back to times when I had no idea he would ever be here. The losing certainly enhances my mis-givings of his past, but as I have written and acknowledged, if Luck has determined that staying the course in this matter, who am I to dispute it? My opinion counts no higher, or lower than any posted here. Concerned about the future of WVU football, I plead guilty as so charged, but it does not for one single thought believe that we can and will do better, even in the hard times.

I am sure some will pick out pieces of this statement also, those that might be contrary to their own opinion, so I ask just one thing, read the statement in it's complete form, because in the end, it is my form of love for everything Mountaineer, and I do believe that is what we all feel.

 

[Slaton10]

DH is paying for the wrong some thought was done to Stew, plain and simple...from the media to some of the fan base.

This situation cracks me up and I love that no one addresses it....RR and Stew both went 5-2 their last year in the BE, enter first time HCDH (who by the way was thrown into the situation because of lack of class) he has the same record as both of these cough cough well respected coaches in his first season. With no exp. he came in a won 10 games and a BCS game....only thing that changed is the conf we play in. DH had no one to fall back on for advice when it comes to anything on this..his exp was a OC in the Big 12 and we want him to make all the right decisions from day one. Just does not happen that way.

Then our faithful fans fall back to our winning tradition and say we can't have this guy..he is a program ender, worse WVU football ever..anybody realize that 4 times under Don we had about the same three year run as we are having now 86-88 21 wins,89-91 18 wins, 95-97 20 wins, 98-00 19 wins yet we managed to move o, he also had three 4 win seasons...I have no problems saying this our tradition is lackluster at best. Dandy Don is the best we have to offer and lets face it he was average at WVU at best...yet we hold a third year HC to the ultimate standard of coaching.

Yes the guy has made mistakes, so has Saban and every other head coach out there. Hell Saban didn't win a bowl and won less games than DH his first three years. Let the guy grow into the roll, going to pay off in the long run for us. IMO

See you boys in Atlanta.

 

[JIMKOON]

I had a typo mistake in the next to last paragraph, I meant to say, "but it does not for one single thought believe that we CANNOT and WILLNOT do better, even in the hard times" I have to focus so hard on each statement, and I do make mistakes.

 

[DCWV4life]

I wanted to clear something up, just because I post about Don and his record does not mean I disliked him as a coach. He is the coach who guided WVU since I could walk to graduation. I just hate hearing how good things were back in the day as compared to our current situation.

We all have our feelings as to how things should run I just hate all the absolutes...statements like worse ever or program ender.

We have all had interesting times on these boards boys, but damn this is turning into Jets and the Sharks.

 

[bbwvfan]

We have all had interesting times on these boards boys, but damn this is turning into Jets and the Sharks.

Come on man... don't go Westside on me.

"Warriors... come out to play!" At least make a reference to the Warrior and the Riffs for cryin' out loud.

 

[DCWV4life]

Come on man... don't go Westside on me.

"Warriors... come out to play!" At least make a reference to the Warrior and the Riffs for cryin' out loud.

LMAO I am surprised anyone even knew the reference...thank the wife for that one.

The warriors that is weak..how about "the Dead Rabbits" and the "Bowery Boys"

 

[bbwvfan]

LMAO I am surprised anyone even knew the reference...thank the wife for that one.

The warriors that is weak..how about "the Dead Rabbits" and the "Bowery Boys"

Hey man... me and Slaton are big time fans of the Warriors.

 

[Slaton10]

Hey man... me and Slaton are big time fans of the Warriors.

Why does that bring back a sudden experience being in Penn Station after being in the Playboy Club going back to Long Island on the LIRR and walking straight into a hangover!..ugh