Current Roster

[calsnowskier]

Kershaw could make every penny that we would pay but the more likely scenario is that we will pay him for what he's done in Los Angeles and get, at best, a slightly worse pitcher. He is still very good when he is healthy, but he's already more injury prone than just a couple of years ago and his age suggests that will only get worse. It wouldn't be a Zito contract but when has a top tier pitcher signing a long term contract through free agency ever really worked out for the team that signed him?

I agree with your premise, but just offer some counter examples...

Grienke signing with the dogs.
Schilling signing with the Snakes.
Scherzer signing with the Nats.
Johnson signing with the Snakes.
Cueto signing with the Giants.

 

[calsnowskier]

Max Scherzer has seemingly withstood the typical regression (if anything he's gotten stronger in his 30s), but he has yet to show signs of injury, whereas Kershaw has three of the last four years. I worry less about Kershaw's pitching ability and more about his ability to stay healthy.

But I mean Kershaw-Bumgarner-Cueto-Shark-Stratton? That's a fu**ing bonkers rotation for a year.

Screams of 2010 Phillies...

 

[tzill]

Kershaw could make every penny that we would pay but the more likely scenario is that we will pay him for what he's done in Los Angeles and get, at best, a slightly worse pitcher. He is still very good when he is healthy, but he's already more injury prone than just a couple of years ago and his age suggests that will only get worse. It wouldn't be a Zito contract but when has a top tier pitcher signing a long term contract through free agency ever really worked out for the team that signed him?

I'd counter with Zito....because trophies.

NEVER FORGET:

 

[LHG]

I'd counter with Zito....because trophies.

NEVER FORGET:

Sorry, but I don't count Zito. One good game in the playoffs does not justify the contract. In my opinion, Zito's deal was awful. The Giants could have rolled the dice on any of their starters pitching and coming up with a good game in that playoff series.

 

[LHG]

I agree with your premise, but just offer some counter examples...

Grienke signing with the dogs.
Schilling signing with the Snakes.
Scherzer signing with the Nats.
Johnson signing with the Snakes.
Cueto signing with the Giants.

Not sure Grienke could count because he opted out early. Scherzer is an exception, but, as SFGRTB pounted out, he didn't have any injury history that Kershaw has. Not sure what to make of Schilling and Johnson. That was back when guys played longer and were a lot more productive into their late 30s. That is rare today. And for every Johnson success, there are Cain, Zito and Kevin Brown failures.

 

[calsnowskier]

Not sure Grienke could count because he opted out early. Scherzer is an exception, but, as SFGRTB pounted out, he didn't have any injury history that Kershaw has. Not sure what to make of Schilling and Johnson. That was back when guys played longer and were a lot more productive into their late 30s. That is rare today. And for every Johnson success, there are Cain, Zito and Kevin Brown failures.

The fact that Grienke opted out makes no difference. He signed a big contract and it paid off huge for the dogs. Good point about Schilling and Johnson pitching in the road era, though.

Again, though, I fully agree with the premis that big, long contracts for SPs are, as a rule, a bad idea.

 

[LHG]

The fact that Grienke opted out makes no difference. He signed a big contract and it paid off huge for the dogs. Good point about Schilling and Johnson pitching in the road era, though.

Again, though, I fully agree with the premis that big, long contracts for SPs are, as a rule, a bad idea.

That was, at the time of signing, such a unique contract for a big name pitcher. Typically, guys want a long term deal, not an out to go back to the market. It was smart on Grienke's part to leverage it into an even bigger deal, and looked smart for the Dodgers as well, to get a couple good years before he became more experience and then fall back to earth. I don't see it fitting the conversation because it became, in essence, a short term deal. I think a better comparison would be his deal with the D-Backs, which, for the first year at least, looks bad already. However, if he keeps the momentum from last year going this year, he could make the contract worthwhile for the team.

 

[calsnowskier]

That was, at the time of signing, such a unique contract for a big name pitcher. Typically, guys want a long term deal, not an out to go back to the market. It was smart on Grienke's part to leverage it into an even bigger deal, and looked smart for the Dodgers as well, to get a couple good years before he became more experience and then fall back to earth. I don't see it fitting the conversation because it became, in essence, a short term deal. I think a better comparison would be his deal with the D-Backs, which, for the first year at least, looks bad already. However, if he keeps the momentum from last year going this year, he could make the contract worthwhile for the team.

I think, for purposes of this conversation, you should look at the length of the contract upon signing, not upon completion. When it was signed, it was a long contract.

Again, moot point. Long contracts for pitchers are bad, mmkay?

 

[LHG]

I think, for purposes of this conversation, you should look at the length of the contract upon signing, not upon completion. When it was signed, it was a long contract.

Again, moot point. Long contracts for pitchers are bad, mmkay?

 

[tzill]

Sorry, but I don't count Zito. One good game in the playoffs does not justify the contract. In my opinion, Zito's deal was awful. The Giants could have rolled the dice on any of their starters pitching and coming up with a good game in that playoff series.

BLASPHEMY!!

 

[calsnowskier]

Beede activated and Gomez optioned. Not sure why his schedule was pushed up, but he will be pitching tonight instead of tomorrow as was expected.

 

[LHG]

Beede activated and Gomez optioned. Not sure why his schedule was pushed up, but he will be pitching tonight instead of tomorrow as was expected.

Cueto has now been pushed back to where he is starting on 7 days' rest. Hope there is not an injury related to making that decision.

 

[tzill]

Cueto has now been pushed back to where he is starting on 7 days' rest. Hope there is not an injury related to making that decision.

Suarez is with the club. I'm feeling doom....

 

[LHG]

Suarez is with the club. I'm feeling doom....

Guess we'll find out by tomorrow.

 

[calsnowskier]

Cueto placed on DL retro to 4/7
Okert recalled

OMFG. Look at that rotation...

Blach
Stratton
Holland
Beede
Suarez

OMG OMG OMG

 

[LHG]

Cueto placed on DL retro to 4/7
Okert recalled

OMFG. Look at that rotation...

Blach
Stratton
Holland
Beede
Suarez

OMG OMG OMG

At one point, this would have been the future rotation we had hoped for (with Bumgarner replacing Holland).

 

[LHG]

At least the injury with Cueto is a sprained ankle. That could troublesome for a pitcher, however minor, if he doesn't let it heal properly. Hopefully, he stays off it until it is fully healed. If so, he may miss a month. If he comes back sooner than that, I would guess he'll have some troubling starts due to that being his push off ankle. He has to shimmy on that thing.

Edit: I thought it was his right ankle. Apparently, it is his left. Still, it can mess with a pitcher's mind that he is about to land on a tender ankle if he pitches through the injury.

 

[calsnowskier]

At least the injury with Cueto is a sprained ankle. That could troublesome for a pitcher, however minor, if he doesn't let it heal properly. Hopefully, he stays off it until it is fully healed. If so, he may miss a month. If he comes back sooner than that, I would guess he'll have some troubling starts due to that being his push off ankle. He has to shimmy on that thing.

Edit: I thought it was his right ankle. Apparently, it is his left. Still, it can mess with a pitcher's mind that he is about to land on a tender ankle if he pitches through the injury.

I wouldn’t think the land ankle is more critical for a pitcher. More stress on that.

 

[tzill]

I wouldn’t think the land ankle is more critical for a pitcher. More stress on that.

I never worried about my left side at all when I pitched. You can repeat your mechanics as long as your throwing side is pain free.

 

[calsnowskier]

God damned autocorrect...

I meant to say the land ankle WOULD be more critical. My damned autocorrect seems to always add an “n’t” to my “would”s and “could”s and “can”s.

Messes with what I am trying to actually say...