Cousins' value

[SoCalWizFan]

I wasn't trying to stir anything. You said you didn't know what a straw man was, so I told you.

I know your stance, and it is fairly accurate. I was simply explaining the term.

OK - fair enough - thanks.

 

[apratt21]

If cousins didn't play another snap until this off season he would command a draft pick as high as the 2nd round. Obviously anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't watched when he actually plays. This guy has just as much command of our offense than RG3. His throws are on target and he makes great decisions. He's not slow by any stretch and can run when the pocket collapses. He is far more advanced than Kolb was when he got traded, and even still for that matter. 5 to 10 teams have a 2nd string QB starting for em and would love to have Cousins on their roster. Tell me I'm lying. If Cousins plays more this season he will no doubt up his status even more.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

If cousins didn't play another snap until this off season he would command a draft pick as high as the 2nd round. Obviously anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't watched when he actually plays. This guy has just as much command of our offense than RG3. His throws are on target and he makes great decisions. He's not slow by any stretch and can run when the pocket collapses. He is far more advanced than Kolb was when he got traded, and even still for that matter. 5 to 10 teams have a 2nd string QB starting for em and would love to have Cousins on their roster. Tell me I'm lying. If Cousins plays more this season he will no doubt up his status even more.

Good points & this points to one other possible factor - the coaching of Mike & Kyle Shanahan. They may have significantly improved Cousins' skills over the last year & a half. Say what you like about this father/son duo - they do know how to run an NFL offense. This was demonstrated in dramatic fashion during the Steelers game the other day. It was amazing to see the offense click regardless of who played QB & despite the fact that each QB has varying skill sets. Obtaining this type of knowledge is very valuable to any QB.

 

[JDM]

Just out of curiosity, because I don't remember, but were you one of the ones who discounted being behind Brady and learning from McDaniels and Belichick when I brought that up for Mallett?

I'm just curious if that was other people or you see some type of distinction between the two.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Just out of curiosity, because I don't remember, but were you one of the ones who discounted being behind Brady and learning from McDaniels and Belichick when I brought that up for Mallett?

I'm just curious if that was other people or you see some type of distinction between the two.

Not sure who this is directed towards, but I have no issue with Mallet. He may become a good QB in time - who knows. For this forum (and the one @ ESPN) it was mainly Alloutanames who was constantly ragging on Mallet.

 

[JDM]

You. It wasn't ragging on him, per se, but when we were discussing their relative values at some point earlier in this thread, I brought up that the only reason he fell was maturity, and that he has learned from one of the best in the business at the position, with one of the best coaches in the business picking his work apart.

Since you brought up coaching with cousins I was curious how that applied to him. But you don't sound like you were the same person, so it may be kind of moot.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

You. It wasn't ragging on him, per se, but when we were discussing their relative values at some point earlier in this thread, I brought up that the only reason he fell was maturity, and that he has learned from one of the best in the business at the position, with one of the best coaches in the business picking his work apart.

Since you brought up coaching with cousins I was curious how that applied to him. But you don't sound like you were the same person, so it may be kind of moot.

Nope - if I said something like that then I was wrong. Getting coaching & advice from Brady & Belichick & his staff is invaluable. Just like with Cousins & others after that it is just a matter of whether you have the skillset to take advantage of all that knowledge. I have no reason to believe that Mallet cannot although I really don't know much about the guy.

 

[JDM]

That's what it sounded like from your recent posts. Like I said, it became kind of a moot point.

We see eye to eye on a lot of things, it seems.

 

[gtn130]

Why do you find it so hard to believe that there are bad GMs in the NFL? There are bad people in every business in the world. There are also terrible NFL coaches so it would stand to reason that there are also bad personnel people. One other factor you are missing is the injury factor.

I am sure there are a number of horrendous GMs in the NFL just like there are horrible coaches.

I'm arguing against 1) Cousins will command numerous first rounders or that he's currently worth even one first rounder and 2) that it's a foregone conclusion that Cousins will be a viable starting QB with sustained NFL success.

Cousins will never command that unless he starts 8+ games for us and crushes everyone, and we really don't know yet how good Cousins actually is.

 

[gtn130]

And to the "it only takes one bad GM" argument -- Ok, who is it gonna be? Who is going to offer an outlandish amount for Cousins?

The Carson Palmer trade was rock bottom terrible, but Carson Palmer was a #1 overall pick, a pro bowler, and a guy who at one time was seen as top five QB in the NFL. Cousins can't sniff that resume. That, and the team making the deal was easily the most poorly run organization in the NFL by a large margin in the Oakland Raiders.

I'm definitely NOT defending that awful Carson Palmer trade, but think about how much worse it would be trading that haul for Cousins.

 

[gtn130]

Matt Schaub -- two 2nd round picks
Matt Cassel (and Mike Vrabel) -- a 2nd round pick
Kevin Kolb -- a 2nd rounder and DRC, an average CB
Matt Flynn hit free agency

I'm probably forgetting others. But I think the past trade market for the unproven QB who has looked good in limited action could be SOME indication of the type of compensation the 'Skins could receive. Clearly these guys aren't directly similar, but it shows how GMs approach this type of market.

My prediction would be that if Cousins plays 2+ games and plays well in them, he could be had for a 2nd rounder. If he doesn't play or doesn't play well, he'll be a Redskin for a while.

 

[skinsdad62]

Matt Schaub -- two 2nd round picks
Matt Cassel (and Mike Vrabel) -- a 2nd round pick
Kevin Kolb -- a 2nd rounder and DRC, an average CB
Matt Flynn hit free agency

I'm probably forgetting others. But I think the past trade market for the unproven QB who has looked good in limited action could be SOME indication of the type of compensation the 'Skins could receive. Clearly these guys aren't directly similar, but it shows how GMs approach this type of market.

My prediction would be that if Cousins plays 2+ games and plays well in them, he could be had for a 2nd rounder. If he doesn't play or doesn't play well, he'll be a Redskin for a while.

my expectation is ask for a 1st rounder and settle for a 2nd

if you can get that then simply hold on to him .

his worth will be driven in part on what qbs are available in the draft or drafts in the next 2 years

the guy is passing every test so far and certainly is passing the eye test .

 

[skinsdad62]

If he throws his hands up the play loses a lot of it's effectiveness. If following through and running out like you have the ball didn't help the play teams wouldn't do it.

JDM , what do we have to do here ? the read option play requires the qb to read the de . if he plays the qb he hands it off if he crashes the back the qb keeps .

If RG3 takes 2 steps throws his hands up as the refs have told him, it is way to late for the DE , hence hitting him does no good to stop the play and then you get into hitting the qb who isnt a runner by virtue of declaring he doesnt have the ball

now please simply go to your own board and eal with issues you know something about and stop debating people who obviously know more about the subject them you do

you are dead right about mallet being a quality qb . stick to that