Corner improvement

[Thruthefog]

As Lions fans, we have been spoiled.

That sounds pretty funny, doesn't it? But we have been spoiled by a kicker.

 

[LPinSLC]

Green looked really solid on the ride out of town. He really opened those hips up like an All-Pro when he turned and flagged his cab down.

Wish he took Gunther with him.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

Since the turn of the century -- Detroit has spent exactly one draft pick in the 1st or 2nd round on the CB position. It was on Darius Slay -- Who, IMO, is the only CB on our roster who has any chance to become a CB resembling a #1 for Detroit.

Out of curiousity -- which CB's on the Lions roster do you see as developing into quality starters in the NFL? I have no opinion on the guy drafted in the 4th round this year, as we haven't watched him play yet. Bill Bentley would have to grow leaps and bounds to be in the conversation as a solid #2 CB -- I think he will end up our nickelback by default. Jonte Green was a solid pick because it was in the 6th round and he made the roster, but he is going to be a career backup on Detroit. Chris Greenwood can run like the wind and jump out of the gym, but everyone knows my opin.

Sherman is a 5th round pick, Mo Claiborne is 1st round gar-bage. Just sayin. We could have drafted Amakumura a few years ago...that wouldve been a bust. We drafted back to back 1st round corners a while ago...and they were very average at best.

 

[RobBase]

Bryant Westbrook and Terry Fair. I remember my uncle throwing his beer at the TV when they drafted Terry Fair. Was also the first time I ever heard the term "Same old Lions".

 

[Cleaves2000]

Bryant Westbrook and Terry Fair. I remember my uncle throwing his beer at the TV when they drafted Terry Fair. Was also the first time I ever heard the term "Same old Lions".

Because they passed on randy moss. I sure remember that.

 

[RobBase]

Jonte Green was a solid pick because it was in the 6th round and he made the roster, but he is going to be a career backup on Detroit. Chris Greenwood can run like the wind and jump out of the gym, but everyone knows my opinion of him -- When top D1 CB's start from scratch when they hit the NFL -- Greenwood is even further behind in his development, as he basically played high school football in the MIAA..

Both gone. So much for the young corners developing theory.

 

[RobBase]

Because they passed on randy moss. I sure remember that.

Ya, and Sapp. For a shrimp because they thought he could return kicks.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Sherman is a 5th round pick, Mo Claiborne is 1st round gar-bage. Just sayin. We could have drafted Amakumura a few years ago...that wouldve been a bust. We drafted back to back 1st round corners a while ago...and they were very average at best.

I know Sherman was a 5th round pick -- I believe it was actually the pick the Lions traded when he was drafted.

As far as the back to back corners drafted -- are you saying because they did once like 20 years ago -- they shouldn't spend a 1st round pick on a CB again, because they didn't become lock down CBs? If that was the case -- they would have given up spending a 1st round pick on a QB after drafting guys like Chuck Long, Andre Ware, Joey Harrington, etc.

I said after the 2011 draft -- Detroit went the quantity route instead of the quality route by drafting 3 CBs and hoping one would pan out. I believe Bentley was like the 10 or 11th CB off the board when we drafted him (this is off memory, so don't quote me as I didn't look it up).

I'm not saying drafting a CB in the 1st round will solve all the problems on the Lions. I think it's quite obvious though that developing a CB isn't something the Lions have been able to do.
I just want see them invest a 1st rounder on the position to give themselves the best opportunity to have a successful draft pick at CB.

 

[Quackerjacked]

If only we could have swung that trade for Peterson. In retrospect we should have traded the entire draft since only Fairley is left.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If only we could have swung that trade for Peterson. In retrospect we should have traded the entire draft since only Fairley is left.

I didn't even think of that. Good lord -- why didn't the Cardinals trade with us? Can you imagine the Lions defense with Patrick Peterson, instead of Fairley?

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

I know Sherman was a 5th round pick -- I believe it was actually the pick the Lions traded when he was drafted.

As far as the back to back corners drafted -- are you saying because they did once like 20 years ago -- they shouldn't spend a 1st round pick on a CB again, because they didn't become lock down CBs? If that was the case -- they would have given up spending a 1st round pick on a QB after drafting guys like Chuck Long, Andre Ware, Joey Ha.

No, did it sound like thats what I said? No I'm saying investing a 1st rounder on a corner wouldnt guarantee to solve our corner problems. Mayhew did try to get Patrick Peterson..I believe he offered a 1-2-4...which would of been Fairley, Titus Young, and Leshoure. In hindsight that would have been a steal. Fairley is the only guy left from that draft by the way...I guess he shouldve offered the whole thing. At their previous positions in the draft their were few opportunities that the pick fit the spot. He tried to throw 4 at the wall to see who sticks in 2 years. Slay and Bentley for now. Anywho...It's not a great idea to draft for need, especially in the first round.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

No I'm saying INVESTING a 1st rounder on a corner wouldnt guarantee to solve our corner problems.

I agree. Nothing is guaranteed when you are drafting college kids. The NFL is an entirely different beast than college. I'm just saying -- in the 1st round, you are going to have the players with the most talent available. Whether that translates to the field remains to be seen, but it gives you the best opportunity to find a high quality player.

It has been almost 20 years since we've spent a 1st round pick on the position. I just want to see them do something. It is nothing more than frustration on my part and wanting to see them with a quality set of CBs, as I think that would take the team from middle of the road to a perennial playoff team.

 

[themuzzer]

I still believe it comes down to position .....Where do you spend your money? QB, WR, CB, are my top three things to spend money on......When you get top heavy in money not spent at quality positions the rest of the team suffers.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

2014 Kyle Fuller or Darqueze Dennard over Ebron?
2013 Dee Miliner over Ansah?
2012 Janoris Jenkins over Reiff?
2011 Prince Amukamura over Fairley Looking back on that draft and seeing JJ watt 2 picks before Fairley is heartbreaking...especially since Titus and Mikel in there wouldve gotten it done. Looking back on drafts is not a great idea for any fan of any team.
2010 Joe Haden over Suh, Patrick Robinson over Best?
2009 Malcolm Jenkins over Stafford? Vontae Davis over Pettigrew
2008 Aqib Talib over Gosder Cherilus
2007 Darelle Revis over Calvin Johnson
2006 Tye Hill over Ernie Sims
2005 Fabian Washington over Mike Williams

I did this just for my own curiosity. Our last 10 years of 1st rounders and the next corner taken. Of course hindsight is 20/20...even with that being the case there are few of those here that stand out. Talib over Gosder is probably the biggest and he was a headache for the Bucs who drafted him. Thoughts?

 

[Old Lion]

The only years we have come out worse are 2008 and possibly 2014. The other years were even or better.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

2014 Kyle Fuller or Darqueze Dennard over Ebron?

Yes and Yes -- I'd take Fuller or Dennard over Ebron in a heartbeat. When a team already has Pettigrew and Fauria, and signed Golden Tate in the offseason, as well as, Calvin Johnson. Drafting a one dimentional TE with top 10 pick still has me shaking my head.

At best -- Ebron will be the 4th option in the offense, and will continue to be just that while we have Tate, Calvin and Bush/Bell (whoever is in the game).

Fuller or Dennard would immediately be the most talented CB on our roster. It would take them time as the position is very tough to step right into and be really good, especially since they would end up put in the same role as Slay is having to play (#1 CB).

As far as who was the next CB off the board after the Lions picked -- as you said -- it is all 20/20 hindsight, as we have no clue how the players were rated on other teams boards. We just know who was drafted next.

We could play the same type of game everywhere in the draft. Detroit drafted Ryan Broyles with a huge need at LB. 3 picks later -- Lavonte David was drafted. If we wanted to stick with the CB route -- that same year, the next CB taken was Casey Hayward, who had 6 interceptions and 21 passes defensed as a rookie. It is too late to go thru all the drafts right now, so that was the one that stuck out in my mind.

As I've stated with Mayhew as GM -- he has done very well in the 1st round. Every pick, with the exception of Fairley and trading up for Best, has worked out well. I honestly HATE seeing them spend 1st rounders though on the TE position. I hated the Pettigrew pick, though he was a good safety valve for Stafford and I hate the Ebron pick even more.

All I heard was -- we are going to run the New Orleans offense and we need someone to play the Jimmy Graham role. Only problem is -- Ebron would be lucky to get 1/3 of the balls thrown to him that Jimmy Graham does. Also -- he isn't Jimmy Graham and no one is going to mistake him for Jimmy Graham.

There are so many players I would have rather the Lions drafted -- Kyle Fuller and Dennard just being two of them. I'd have rather had Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, Calvin Pryor, Clinton-Dix. Pretty much anyone. Hell -- I'd take Brandon Cooks over Ebron. Put him in the slot and try to man cover that guy.

Sorry -- I'm rambling -- I'm going to drop this as I don't want to get fired up about the Ebron pick again. Needless to say -- everyone on this board knows how I feel about the pick. One of the guys on here made the perfect comparison, IMO. Ebron is like Jared Cook. He will make the occasional big play, but I'm willing to bet he will be non-existent in many games, like Cook.

 

[themuzzer]

Yes and Yes -- I'd take Fuller or Dennard over Ebron in a heartbeat. When a team already has Pettigrew and Fauria, and signed Golden Tate in the offseason, as well as, Calvin Johnson. Drafting a one dimentional TE with top 10 pick still has me shaking my head.

At best -- Ebron will be the 4th option in the offense, and will continue to be just that while we have Tate, Calvin and Bush/Bell (whoever is in the game).

Fuller or Dennard would immediately be the most talented CB on our roster. It would take them time as the position is very tough to step right into and be really good, especially since they would end up put in the same role as Slay is having to play (#1 CB).

As far as who was the next CB off the board after the Lions picked -- as you said -- it is all 20/20 hindsight, as we have no clue how the players were rated on other teams boards. We just know who was drafted next.

We could play the same type of game everywhere in the draft. Detroit drafted Ryan Broyles with a huge need at LB. 3 picks later -- Lavonte David was drafted. If we wanted to stick with the CB route -- that same year, the next CB taken was Casey Hayward, who had 6 interceptions and 21 passes defensed as a rookie. It is too late to go thru all the drafts right now, so that was the one that stuck out in my mind.

As I've stated with Mayhew as GM -- he has done very well in the 1st round. Every pick, with the exception of Fairley and trading up for Best, has worked out well. I honestly HATE seeing them spend 1st rounders though on the TE position. I hated the Pettigrew pick, though he was a good safety valve for Stafford and I hate the Ebron pick even more.

All I heard was -- we are going to run the New Orleans offense and we need someone to play the Jimmy Graham role. Only problem is -- Ebron would be lucky to get 1/3 of the balls thrown to him that Jimmy Graham does. Also -- he isn't Jimmy Graham and no one is going to mistake him for Jimmy Graham.

There are so many players I would have rather the Lions drafted -- Kyle Fuller and Dennard just being two of them. I'd have rather had Aaron Donald, Ryan Shazier, Calvin Pryor, Clinton-Dix. Pretty much anyone. Hell -- I'd take Brandon Cooks over Ebron. Put him in the slot and try to man cover that guy.

Sorry -- I'm rambling -- I'm going to drop this as I don't want to get fired up about the Ebron pick again. Needless to say -- everyone on this board knows how I feel about the pick. One of the guys on here made the perfect comparison, IMO. Ebron is like Jared Cook. He will make the occasional big play, but I'm willing to bet he will be non-existent in many games, like Cook.

Wow......Way too much....A simple the Lions secondary sucks would have sufficed.

 

[black_magic]

JW, would you guys be happy or upset if they brought in Champ Bailey? Seems like everyone wants a better group, but nothing drastic can be done abt it. Can't dwell on the past

 

[tpaulus_2]

JW, would you guys be happy or upset if they brought in Champ Bailey? Seems like everyone wants a better group, but nothing drastic can be done abt it. Can't dwell on the past

Ha! I wish this was the case... turns out there's a whole lot of dwelling in the past around here. Everything from drafting a 1st round WR every year for 12 years to the Great Depression is directly Mayhew's fault according to this message board.

Worst GM EVER! (except when the new guy uses basic common sense to prove otherwise...)

 

[FamineGod]

2011 Prince Amukamura over Fairley Looking back on that draft and seeing JJ watt 2 picks before Fairley is heartbreaking...especially since Titus and Mikel in there wouldve gotten it done. Looking back on drafts is not a great idea for any fan of any team.

Looking back on the 2011 draft is certainly not a good idea...

Forget CB...how about drafting Fairley over Robert Quinn, taken 1 pick later.