Comedy gold out of Edmonton

[dash]

lol when you know that comes from HFBoards, there's not much merit to that

I will say this, there are some pretty good advanced stats gurus at HFBoards. However, you need to wade through some thick, homerific murky waters to find the gems.

 

[mattola]

I will say this, there are some pretty good advanced stats gurus at HFBoards. However, you need to wade through some thick, homerific murky waters to find the gems.

almost like reading through a Boston Bruins thread

 

[dash]

almost like reading through a Boston Bruins thread

 

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I think I may have posted this earlier, but maybe the Oil have just been victims of poor timing - Consider the three first overall picks before they had 3 first overall picks in a row:

Kane
Stamkos
Tavares

Then they selected Hall, RNH, and Yakupov. Now consider the next three first overall picks (last two being the most likely):

MacKinnon
Ekblad*
McDavid**

/Although I will say that Ryan Murray would have been a much better pick than Yakupov.

 

[Slimpikins]

It may be who they drafted and not so much what year. Or it may be that they are such a poorly run organization that they squandered the talent. Or maybe a combination of all three, down years for top end talent, they chose poorly, then they limit their game because they are bad at developing players.

 

[forty_three]

/Although I will say that Ryan Murray would have been a much better pick than Yakupov.

It may be who they drafted and not so much what year. Or it may be that they are such a poorly run organization that they squandered the talent. Or maybe a combination of all three, down years for top end talent, they chose poorly, then they limit their game because they are bad at developing players.

The coaches in both Minnesota and Nashville, after getting players from Edmonton, remarked on the "poor habits" the players had.

Kane is an immense talent, but the Olympics showed what he's worth when he has no discipline around him. Had the Oil drafted him, I am 90% sure he'd have been a train wreck.

 

[mattola]

 

[Slimpikins]

The coaches in both Minnesota and Nashville, after getting players from Edmonton, remarked on the "poor habits" the players had.

Kane is an immense talent, but the Olympics showed what he's worth when he has no discipline around him. Had the Oil drafted him, I am 90% sure he'd have been a train wreck.

Exactly, I don't think that it's a coincidence that Detroit keeps drafting gems in later rounds. Yes they have a great scouting department but they also have top end player development.

 

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Also, let's not forget the entitlement factor that these young guys have (Hall after being minus four one night and saying to the media, "Well, it's not like I'm going to be sent to the minors"). Um, why the hell not? Sven Baertschi spent most of this season in the minors and by all reports, it has done the kid a world of good.

 

[mattola]

YAK is the perfect example of horrible drafting in both the scouting and the reasoning behind it to build a club.

Edmonton should have gone for the Dman

 

[forty_three]

Also, let's not forget the entitlement factor that these young guys have (Hall after being minus four one night and saying to the media, "Well, it's not like I'm going to be sent to the minors"). Um, why the hell not? Sven Baertschi spent most of this season in the minors and by all reports, it has done the kid the world of good.

Look at what the demotion of Ryan Johansen did for him.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Exactly, I don't think that it's a coincidence that Detroit keeps drafting gems in later rounds. Yes they have a great scouting department but they also have top end player development.

For a team with a great scouting department I sure don't see very many good picks in their recent history

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[Slimpikins]

For a team with a great scouting department I sure don't see very many good picks in their recent history

Detroit Red Wings Draft History at hockeydb.com

Yet, you haven't seen if they are good on the NHL stage yet. Because Detroit actually develops players. Nyquist and Tartar are having break out years and they were drafted in 2009 and 2008.

 

[mattola]

Yet, you haven't seen if they are good on the NHL stage yet. Because Detroit actually develops players. Nyquist and Tartar are having break out years and they were drafted in 2009 and 2008.

even with detroits excellence in drafting not many teams can get immediate impact out of drafting mid rounds. top 3 maybe and some not even right away.

 

[dash]

Anthony Mantha looks promising, Jake Paterson could be a good goalie down the road, Mrazek also looks like he could be a capable NHL goalie, Jurco and Tatar looks like legit NHL players, Shaehan also looks pretty good. For not having a lot of top picks, the Wings have done quite well, in my opinion.

 

[Slimpikins]

True, they draft in the bottom half to bottom third every year.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Yet, you haven't seen if they are good on the NHL stage yet. Because Detroit actually develops players. Nyquist and Tartar are having break out years and they were drafted in 2009 and 2008.

OK, so let's look before that instead for players that are done with their "development". 2005-2007 seems to have produced nothing but a few 4th liners. 2004 gives Franzen which is good, but literally nothing else. 2003 gives us Howard, and I guess Quincey is somewhat useful. I'll bet that if we actually look in detail, there are plenty of teams who have gotten more from the draft over the last 10 years than the Red Wings have.

 

[Slimpikins]

OK, so let's look before that instead for players that are done with their "development". 2005-2007 seems to have produced nothing but a few 4th liners. 2004 gives Franzen which is good, but literally nothing else. 2003 gives us Howard, and I guess Quincey is somewhat useful. I'll bet that if we actually look in detail, there are plenty of teams who have gotten more from the draft over the last 10 years than the Red Wings have.

Drop back one more year and in 2002 they drafted
Hudler
Flieschman (sp?)
Filppula
Ericcson

And everyone knows about them pulling Datsyuk and Zetterberg out of the mid to late rounds. They had a pretty solid line up and I would say a bit tougher to crack than some other teams but I agree, there some lean years there.

Who would you say are the top drafting teams? Not being a dick, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[forty_three]

True, they draft in the bottom half to bottom third every year.

As they have for 23 straight years that they've made the playoffs. You don't get there through trades and signings.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Drop back one more year and in 2002 they drafted
Hudler
Flieschman (sp?)
Filppula
Ericcson

And everyone knows about them pulling Datsyuk and Zetterberg out of the mid to late rounds. They had a pretty solid line up and I would say a bit tougher to crack than some other teams but I agree, there some lean years there.

Who would you say are the top drafting teams? Not being a dick, I'm genuinely curious.

Sure, but then if we drop back another year to 2001 it's a huge goose egg, as were the Zetterberg and Datsyuk drafts when looking past them.

The late round stuff is obviously good but also sort of makes you think... if it's a product of their scouting department being so smart, why'd they leave them out there so long and risk someone else taking them? It's a bit of a loaded question, but it's also not totally off base. I mean as a Wings fan I'm sure you know full well that their 1st round history is a bit of a disaster (although some of that is long enough ago not to matter now).

As far as league-wide I'd honestly have to think about it and examine it more, the only reason I have any kind of informed opinion on the Red Wings' drafts is because I've heard for years how great they are at it and it never seemed to jibe with what I thought I was seeing. Off the top of my head I think San Jose has done pretty well. Montreal maybe? Like I said I'd definitely have to look at it in more detail, there are probably lots of guys further down depth charts that I forget off the top of my head (and guys whose drafting team I've forgotten entirely cause they were traded/left).