CM PUNK tells his story

[johnson]

AIdiot: I have to agree. People seem to forget (as much as CM Punk did) that he wasn't in creative and while I suppose they had an open door policy for input, he had no right to expect his ideas to dictate his story lines. WWE flops plenty of times with their angles, but they haven't been in business with no real competition for decades because they don't know what they're doing.

When I think of the guys on the roster that the writers have not done justice to, CM Punk isn't even on the Top 10 list.

 

[anotheridiot]

exactly. It makes you wonder if they have listened too much lately and that is why there are so many different directions these guys are going.

I mean they took stars and put them in masks, put Rhodes in that stupid golddust getup.

 

[wildturkey]

He was a top star. In wrestling, guys in his position usually get creative leeway with their characters. Even lower guys have some input but the top of the card gets more say. But modern WWE, unlike other companies in the past and even WWE in the past, has gone in the opposite direction. The decisions come strictly from the writing team with little input from the wrestlers and usually, what the writing team says gets scrapped at the last minute because Vince changes his mind on a whim and rewrites it. Go listen or read any interview from a former creative team member. Their comments line up with Punk's. And that's really the reason for the shit product you're seeing. Creative is walled off with no input and then it doesn't matter what they do because Vince changes things on the fly and goes on a week to week basis.

 

[iowajerms]

He was a top star. In wrestling, guys in his position usually get creative leeway with their characters. Even lower guys have some input but the top of the card gets more say. But modern WWE, unlike other companies in the past and even WWE in the past, has gone in the opposite direction. The decisions come strictly from the writing team with little input from the wrestlers and usually, what the writing team says gets scrapped at the last minute because Vince changes his mind on a whim and rewrites it. Go listen or read any interview from a former creative team member. Their comments line up with Punk's. And that's really the reason for the shit product you're seeing. Creative is walled off with no input and then it doesn't matter what they do because Vince changes things on the fly and goes on a week to week basis.

I agree and disagree. I think Stone Cold is the best example to show both sides. If you listen to his podcast. When he did his thing with his WrestleMania match vs the Rock, he talked about how he wished he did a SC Stunner to McMahon instead of shaking his hand. Then the next podcast, a fan asked if McMahon would have cared, SCSA said McMahon let him have so much freedom that if it worked, he wouldn't care.

Then when you look at the Stone Cold documentary on Monday Night Wars on WWE Network, they go into how Stone Cold, basically, walked out of the WWE because he didn't like his role in the storyline. He lost a lot of respect among the superstars and management and had to earn it back.

Also, a lot of people involved talked about how having the top superstars having control over creative was a major downfall of WCW.

 

[wildturkey]

I agree and disagree. I think Stone Cold is the best example to show both sides. If you listen to his podcast. When he did his thing with his WrestleMania match vs the Rock, he talked about how he wished he did a SC Stunner to McMahon instead of shaking his hand. Then the next podcast, a fan asked if McMahon would have cared, SCSA said McMahon let him have so much freedom that if it worked, he wouldn't care.

Then when you look at the Stone Cold documentary on Monday Night Wars on WWE Network, they go into how Stone Cold, basically, walked out of the WWE because he didn't like his role in the storyline. He lost a lot of respect among the superstars and management and had to earn it back.

Also, a lot of people involved talked about how having the top superstars having control over creative was a major downfall of WCW.

I don't think Punk's issue was having total control, it was WWE not respecting him enough to have some input and control. It's a common complaint you read about from ex employees and rumors from current ones on dirt sheets that WWE management, mostly Vince, often ignores input from others and replaces it with what he wants. And if and when it fails, everyone else pays the price.

 

[anotheridiot]

I don't think Punk's issue was having total control, it was WWE not respecting him enough to have some input and control. It's a common complaint you read about from ex employees and rumors from current ones on dirt sheets that WWE management, mostly Vince, often ignores input from others and replaces it with what he wants. And if and when it fails, everyone else pays the price.

Sure sounded like he thought his way was the only right way to handle his title reign in his head.

 

[jakedog56]

Good article regarding this subject:

CM Punk?s Parting Shot «

 

[johnson]

I have a hard time feeling bad about the direction of Punk's title reign by the sheer length of it. That alone is significant and, again, few guys were given the belt for that long...regardless of storylines. Dude is an egomaniac squared.

 

[Inimical]

Im surprised how many people are so completely dismissive with his legitimate gripes.

 

[Inimical]

Part 2


Skip to 10 mins

 

[RobToxin]

I have a hard time feeling bad about the direction of Punk's title reign by the sheer length of it. That alone is significant and, again, few guys were given the belt for that long...regardless of storylines. Dude is an egomaniac squared.

This is true. Guys like The Rock and Stone Cold never had year + long reigns.

 

[Inimical]

This is true. Guys like The Rock and Stone Cold never had year + long reigns.

While there is some validity to this, it does not take away from the wrongs that were placed in front of him. Lets be clear. Guys like the rock and stone cold never had to deal with the Rock or Undertaker one matching them, getting far better pay days, and disappearing mean whiling Punk and others are on the road 300+ days of the year..I mean put yourselfs in his shoes, there really isnt much more to say. Its bullshit. Also, the time CM Punk became champion the top superstars where tired and old, Randy Orton, John Cena, and thats about it. CM pulled this company up and carried them in a time they really needed it. He made them,, like he said socially relevant again. Vince and everyone no matter what they want to criticize him for, know this.

 

[Inimical]

There was a counter as well, even though CM has been gone for almost a year, his podcast interview received more views then the WWE has network subscribers. The proof is in the pudding. Impressive and relevant any way you look at it.

 

[wildturkey]

I have a hard time feeling bad about the direction of Punk's title reign by the sheer length of it. That alone is significant and, again, few guys were given the belt for that long...regardless of storylines. Dude is an egomaniac squared.

I agree to an extent but even with that, he's got a point. He held it a long ass time but for a good chunk of that reign, he often wasn't booked as the main story on Raw or PPVs despite being champion. Usually it was still John Cena or HHH/McMahon, etc. He wasn't the only one complaining about that. Not sure if the wrestling forum here is old enough, but go back and look at any posts from that time period on any fan site and you'll see people complaining about the exact same thing (Champion swept aside for Cena in the ME). That's just not for Punk. That goes for a lot of other guys. Hell, WWE kept ignoring Daniel Bryan until the crowd response nearly broke into a full riot before they finally decided to give him a shot in the ME

He's an old school guy with that mentality that the champion gets top billing so its no wonder he feels the way he does. And really, he's actually right. One of the major reasons WWE has been so bad lately is because they've failed to create a certifiable new star. I'm not talking about guys that come in and are great but its short lived (like Punk or Bryan or even Edge), I'm talking a HHH/Cena/Taker type star. Guys that are recognized even by casual types or people who don't watch wrestling. The main reason for that is because they never pushed those guys like Cena out of the top spot long enough for them to grow into that. You can't create that new star unless you give them considerable time at the top and not only that, book them in a strong fashion (not a BS Rey Mysterio type title run where he loses constantly). Someone like Punk would get a run, but at the instant the ratings dipped half a percent, Cena would be right back on top. He might still be champ, but the safety net would be in the main event slot. That short sightedness has come back and bitten them in the ass. Now WWE has aging stars (HHH and Taker) and one that is pretty bland from overexposure (Cena) and nothing else but a ton of young guys that might have a couple make the leap, but its still gonna take awhile.

 

[jeffro151]

Punk just signed a multi fight deal with UFC. Can't wait to see him get his ass kicked.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Punk just signed a multi fight deal with UFC. Can't wait to see him get his ass kicked.

They better give him a can. Any top 10 185er will crush him

 

[wildturkey]

Good for him for getting a chance at something he's been wanting to try. But I fully expect him to get his ass kicked. Fighting in the UFC is no joke. Just because you've trained doesn't mean shit. Even the tomato cans can kick your ass. Plus, with his concussion history, I doubt he has much of a chin at this point if any at all

 

[anotheridiot]

They better give him a can. Any top 10 185er will crush him

he might start at 170

 

[jakedog56]

He complained about pay per views, he complained about Batista getting a main event too. His whole tone thru the whole thing was he was the guy with the belt, every aspect of the business should have gone thru him. Thats when the inmates are running the asylum. He did what he was good at and basically abandoned the only place he can ever make that kind of money again. If he wanted to be a movie star, he should not have argued to go on the european tour because he was the champ, he could have stayed, rested, done Marine 2 and nobody would have minded. He is a me first guy, firmly believes he is the best in the world, and was one of the least believable champs in wwe history.

I'm surprised he didnt expect to sit on the board of directors since he was the champ.

The funny thing is that this is exactly how things would have been done in the past. Historically, the inmates did run the asylum in many respects as many times the owners were wrestlers themselves. Look at the last 100+ years of history and you will see this time and time again. From the Gold Dust trio (look it up. Nothing to do with the current WWE Goldust, but he is perhaps a nod to them), through most of the territories (predominately NWA related), to Vern Gagne's AWA (which he killed by not keeping with the times, being too loyal to old "talent", and favoring his bland, lightweight son). It was never more predominate than in the 90's with the Nitro/Raw wars when Hogan, Nash and the NWO were allowed to do whatever the hell they wanted without any thought of how it would affect things in the long term (it did work great for a couple of years in the short term), and on Raw with McMahon allowing Austin to do basically whatever he wanted to do (this also worked great) and Micheals and HHH basically running the locker room.

So McMahon succeeded in wiping out the competition by allowing this type of behavior but now he does everything in his power to repress it on one hand (WWE controls basically EVERYTHING at this point which is why their product is so stale) but he still wants to be able to abuse the "talent" like he did in the past.

CM Punk is the opposite: He wants the protection of modern society (like the NFL now has to give their players for example) but he wants to get back the creative control that wrestlers had in the past and that he had on the independent circuit.

Both are in the wrong and something has to give at some point (if the WWE product keeps going downhill and stops making money at least) but as a fan I certainly enjoyed the chaos that used to reign when the "inmates ran the asylum". Even when it was bad, it could be so bad that it could be great (sometimes) in its own twisted way.

Back to Vince McMahon and how things are done currently as opposed to how he did them in the past. I understand that it is a business and you cannot run wrestling like you used to in the 80s and 90s due to liability and other factors, but he has almost destroyed his own industry with his financial and media domination. He used to let guys like that complete ass-bag Shawn Micheals and the fucking Cliq destroy peoples careers with backstabbing and underhanded crap just because they could but now he does not let anyone do anything without prior approval and rehearsal. Even now days, Randy Orton tends to throw people under the bus by blaming them for missed spots and stuff but he seems to be the golden boy (well, not quite at Cena's level but.....) who can miss his own spots, get busted by the drug and behavior policies more than once, but still retain his job.

Another "funny" point is that Punk is complaining about the lack of individual freedom and control (among other things) but he is one of the few who was actually given more freedom than most. He was often allowed to do unscripted interviews because he was pretty good at it.

I am rambling. It is a complicated situation. Punk wants a return to the old days when it comes to character control and personal freedoms. Vince wants total control over every aspect.

 

[UK Cowboy]

I agree to an extent but even with that, he's got a point. He held it a long ass time but for a good chunk of that reign, he often wasn't booked as the main story on Raw or PPVs despite being champion. Usually it was still John Cena or HHH/McMahon, etc. He wasn't the only one complaining about that. Not sure if the wrestling forum here is old enough, but go back and look at any posts from that time period on any fan site and you'll see people complaining about the exact same thing (Champion swept aside for Cena in the ME). That's just not for Punk. That goes for a lot of other guys. Hell, WWE kept ignoring Daniel Bryan until the crowd response nearly broke into a full riot before they finally decided to give him a shot in the ME

He's an old school guy with that mentality that the champion gets top billing so its no wonder he feels the way he does. And really, he's actually right. One of the major reasons WWE has been so bad lately is because they've failed to create a certifiable new star. I'm not talking about guys that come in and are great but its short lived (like Punk or Bryan or even Edge), I'm talking a HHH/Cena/Taker type star. Guys that are recognized even by casual types or people who don't watch wrestling. The main reason for that is because they never pushed those guys like Cena out of the top spot long enough for them to grow into that. You can't create that new star unless you give them considerable time at the top and not only that, book them in a strong fashion (not a BS Rey Mysterio type title run where he loses constantly). Someone like Punk would get a run, but at the instant the ratings dipped half a percent, Cena would be right back on top. He might still be champ, but the safety net would be in the main event slot. That short sightedness has come back and bitten them in the ass. Now WWE has aging stars (HHH and Taker) and one that is pretty bland from overexposure (Cena) and nothing else but a ton of young guys that might have a couple make the leap, but its still gonna take awhile.

I think Cena will be the face of the company for the next few years, and it's hard to blame Vince. I think he did try and push Punk...Hell, he was Champ for 400 days....then he lost the title, pulled out a baby binkie, and went home. They pushed Bryan, and rightfully so....but the concerns about his size were confirmed, he's been on the shelf and still is. They pushed Brock to the very top....disaster....they want to push Reigns....shelf.....Cena is an Ironman, a tireless worker, and a company man. All the WWE needs to do IMO is turn him Heel...I can't believe they can't see his popularity across the board would go through the roof, not go down. How did turning work out for Hogan?