Change the Mascot Ad

[Caliskinsfan]

IM secure enough in myself that it wouldnt bother me. And IM not arrogant enough to think that i can change how some one thinks or feels by telling them they cant use a particular word because it hurts my feelings. IM also not arrogant enough to think that because my feelings are hurt that every other member of society should be outraged and rally around me to correct an injustice that in the grand scheme of things means squat. And to tell you the truth, if they change the name, I have suggested we switch to the Virginia Rebels and sport old dixie on the side of the helmet. Might as well be blatant about it. And the end all be all is that this is all about money when it comes down to it.

And just to be clear, IM not saying you are that arrogant or insecure. BUt I think the people behind this are.

This is one of the most eloquently written comments I've seen Shark. Well stated sir.

 

[MarkOU]

The Navajo & Cherokee oppose the name and they rep the two biggest tribes with just under 500k Native Americans.

I don't see it as being politically correct. It's just more about having respect for the millions killed by our government in DC, home of the Redskins. If their ancestors don't want the name used, then their opinion should matter. If they want to sell out and take a bride, thats their right too. Indian tribes have certain sovereign rights and can negotiate settlements if they like, like the Florida State Seminoles. Of course in the end not everyone will be happy as the Seminole tribe in Oklahoma does not support the Florida State mascot but alas the NCAA feels that the agreement with the tribe in Florida is sufficient enough. Perhaps if the two largest Indian tribes would come to an arrangement with Synder, then that could settle it.

 

[skinsdad62]

The Navajo & Cherokee oppose the name and they rep the two biggest tribes with just under 500k Native Americans.

I don't see it as being politically correct. It's just more about having respect for the millions killed by our government in DC, home of the Redskins. If their ancestors don't want the name used, then their opinion should matter. If they want to sell out and take a bride, thats their right too. Indian tribes have certain sovereign rights and can negotiate settlements if they like, like the Florida State Seminoles. Of course in the end not everyone will be happy as the Seminole tribe in Oklahoma does not support the Florida State mascot but alas the NCAA feels that the agreement with the tribe in Florida is sufficient enough. Perhaps if the two largest Indian tribes would come to an arrangement with Synder, then that could settle it.

and you have data to back this up ? please post a link because i have seen no survey or poll by anyone credible that backs up your claim

and of course it is PC and you fall in lock step behind the socialist agenda

 

[Sharkinva]

The Navajo & Cherokee oppose the name and they rep the two biggest tribes with just under 500k Native Americans.

I don't see it as being politically correct. It's just more about having respect for the millions killed by our government in DC, home of the Redskins. If their ancestors don't want the name used, then their opinion should matter. If they want to sell out and take a bride, thats their right too. Indian tribes have certain sovereign rights and can negotiate settlements if they like, like the Florida State Seminoles. Of course in the end not everyone will be happy as the Seminole tribe in Oklahoma does not support the Florida State mascot but alas the NCAA feels that the agreement with the tribe in Florida is sufficient enough. Perhaps if the two largest Indian tribes would come to an arrangement with Synder, then that could settle it.

So basically you have just admitted, its all about money in the end. If we want to go back to the sins of the father argument... I would surely like my fucking 40 acres and a mule, and not just for me, but for every one of my forefathers who fought on the side of the United states against the confederacy. And since I can trace atleast 20 family members who fought on the side of the good old USA, thats a tidy sum of 800 acres and 20 mules. Sure my family could find a way to divy up a land grant the size of the state of Delaware without too much fuss.

 

[skinsdad62]

Actually the courts have no grounds to revoke the trade marks unless they are going to go off of the whole, we feel uncomfortable and thus it needs to change. If I wanted to name my company crack hoes unlimited and have a logo of a strung out street walker in a thong, the courts SHOULDNT have the right to revoke a trade mark legally given based on the fact that my trade mark hurts some one elses feelings.

well apparently they do because this is where the trademark is being challenged

 

[Sharkinva]

well apparently they do because this is where the trademark is being challenged

You are not actually shocked that our courts are being brought into a realm where they have no business and feel they have the right to decide whats best for some of us no matter what.

 

[MarkOU]

and you have data to back this up ? please post a link because i have seen no survey or poll by anyone credible that backs up your claim

and of course it is PC and you fall in lock step behind the socialist agenda

I gave links with the tribal name. If you didn't click, that's not my fault.

Far from a socialist. Just my opinion. If you want to disagree, than disagree don't go accusing me of some bullshit.

So basically you have just admitted, its all about money in the end. If we want to go back to the sins of the father argument... I would surely like my fucking 40 acres and a mule, and not just for me, but for every one of my forefathers who fought on the side of the United states against the confederacy. And since I can trace atleast 20 family members who fought on the side of the good old USA, thats a tidy sum of 800 acres and 20 mules. Sure my family could find a way to divy up a land grant the size of the state of Delaware without too much fuss.

So what if its about the money. If its what the tribes want, its their right. If anyone has a right to be offended, its them. I didn't say I'm offended as I'm not a member of those two tribes. If their councils oppose said name, well they have reason and cause. No one eless opinion matters and it should be worked out between them and Synder. What you THINK doesn't matter. Nor do what I THINK. I have an opinion about it so stop trying to go all ape shit and talking about mules and land like its even relevant to our discussion.

 

[Sharkinva]

I gave links with the tribal name. If you didn't click, that's not my fault.

Far from a socialist. Just my opinion. If you want to disagree, than disagree don't go accusing me of some bullshit.



So what if its about the money. If its what the tribes want, its their right. If anyone has a right to be offended, its them. I didn't say I'm offended as I'm not a member of those two tribes. If their councils oppose said name, well they have reason and cause. No one eless opinion matters and it should be worked out between them and Synder. What you THINK doesn't matter. Nor do what I THINK. I have an opinion about it so stop trying to go all ape shit and talking about mules and land like its even relevant to our discussion.

Just because they are offended by something, it does not give them the right to force their opinion on ever one else.If they are trying to hold Snyder and the team responsible for what was done to them as a people 400 years ago, then thats the same as saying that the people in DC should make good on their promise of 40 acres and a mule. And opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and occasionally every one of them stinks from time to time.

 

[Sharkinva]

Mark.... the bottom line is, if the courts or public out cry force the Skins to change their name, its a hollow gesture. If they really gave a rats ass about the plight of the native American, pack up all the non native Americans and send them back to their ancestral homes. Give them their land back, pay for their kids education. And stop keeping them on reservations like public housing experiments. They can thump their chests and say well the team name does all this harm. But in the grand scheme of things a real man can get over hurt feelings. Especially when there was never an intent of hurting any ones feelings to begin with. Why waste the time and effort? The cost of that commercial during the NBA finals was enough to send 10 Native American kids to college.... so you tell me whats more hurtful to them as a community?? Wasting Money to try and change a team name, or the stupidity in thinking changing a name of a team will some how make things better for the Native american community at large??

 

[MarkOU]

Just because they are offended by something, it does not give them the right to force their opinion on ever one else.If they are trying to hold Snyder and the team responsible for what was done to them as a people 400 years ago, then thats the same as saying that the people in DC should make good on their promise of 40 acres and a mule. And opinions are like assholes. We all have them, and occasionally every one of them stinks from time to time.

They are not trying to hold them responsible, they are just saying they don't appreciate a slur towards their people and in all places the nation's capital. Might as well have the Berlin Kikes as the next NFL expansion team, it would be the same. If they want it changed, they are within their right to lobby and protest it. If they decide to back off, well everyone should respect that too. How are they going to back off? Snyder should set down with these tribes and discuss it which he has not done, he just went out and hand pick four WWII Navajo vets and "honored" them at a home game like that gives it the blessing.

 

[Sharkinva]

They are not trying to hold them responsible, they are just saying they don't appreciate a slur towards their people and in all places the nation's capital. Might as well have the Berlin Kikes as the next NFL expansion team, it would be the same. If they want it changed, they are within their right to lobby and protest it. If they decide to back off, well everyone should respect that too. How are they going to back off? Snyder should set down with these tribes and not hand pick and invite four WWII Navajo vets like that gives it the blessing.

So what if they want it changed. I dont want to see my tax dollars used to support public housing. It hurts my feelings to see single mothers by choice receive the same tax break as a married couple, and get back twice as much in refund money because of it. Since when does one mans feeling get to dictate how another person acts?? I agree they have a right to lobby and protest. What they dont have a right to do is try and force the team owner to change the name because they personally dont like it. any more than I have a right to try and force them to embrace the team name.

 

[Gooch1034]

It isn't a crime to be racist in the USA so.........?

Should Dick's Sporting Goods change their name because I dont like it?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Well Mark, get ready for the state of Oklahoma to be soon on the chopping block. Cuz it has the same heinous history as the redskin name. And we all know everyone in Oklahoma is trying to degrade and be racist towards NAs by using the definition of red people as their state name.

Oklahoma is a state located in the South Central United States. Oklahoma is the 20th most extensive and the 28th most populous of the 50 United States. The state's name is derived from the Choctaw words okla and humma, meaning "red people".

What, you mean NAs actually called themselves red people? How astounding. That's not the way you heard it huh?

And then get ready for the Sooners as a mascot to be next, because it stands for people who homesteaded land taken from those "red people"

Where does this end? It's a slippery slope. Very, very slippery.

Words do not exist in a vacuum. Words do not hurt, the intent motive and context of words hurt.

And of course, the motivation of this is what's the biggest problem in this whole thing. Where is the support for things NAs really could benefit from? Where is the outrage about that? Guess a name change will be hailed as the next coming of progress. Sorry, I just don't see it that way. The same people who are crusading about changing a word, have done jack shit to improve the true issues facing NAs today.

 

[Sharkinva]

It isn't a crime to be racist in the USA so.........?

To be a racist requires intent. Show me one instance where the team or its fans have ever used the team name as an insult or to disparage Native Americans??

And actually no its not a crime to be a racist in america. Its a crime to commit acts of Malice against another based on their race. So once again, show me ONE, just one instance where the Team, or its fans, or affiliates have committed an act of malice intentionally or unintentionally against a Native American by any act including the use of the word redskins as a team name.

 

[Sharkinva]

And gooch, IM not calling you out or picking a fight on this. But honestly this is getting old. And i do realize the PC police will win this one eventually. I just wonder whats next. And I fear the day my grand children cant even think what they want for fear of offending the wrong person or group of people.

 

[Gooch1034]

To be a racist requires intent. Show me one instance where the team or its fans have ever used the team name as an insult or to disparage Native Americans??

And actually no its not a crime to be a racist in america. Its a crime to commit acts of Malice against another based on their race. So once again, show me ONE, just one instance where the Team, or its fans, or affiliates have committed an act of malice intentionally or unintentionally against a Native American by any act including the use of the word redskins as a team name.

No I meant that towards those who think the Redskins name is racist. I do not think that name is meant to insult. Even if it was meant to insult, that doesn't make it illegal. Either way, nobody is forcing these people to watch the games or buy their gear.

 

[Gooch1034]

And gooch, IM not calling you out or picking a fight on this. But honestly this is getting old. And i do realize the PC police will win this one eventually. I just wonder whats next. And I fear the day my grand children cant even think what they want for fear of offending the wrong person or group of people.

I agree this is getting old and this is maybe the 2nd time I have even cared to comment. I just wish people would get over it and quit crying. It doesn't help that I chimed in but I cant sleep.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I agree this is getting old and this is maybe the 2nd time I have even cared to comment. I just wish people would get over it and quit crying. It doesn't help that I chimed in but I cant sleep.

No worries Gooch.

 

[PDay8810]

Regardless of whether you agree with the message at the end of the ad, and I do NOT, you can't deny that it's a sophisticated and powerful piece of media. The images alone are haunting and beautiful. Then bam, the Redskins logo.

This ad is Guaranteed to stir the pot in its efforts to divert the debate of 'intent and context' of the name and mascot . It blatantly panders to the emotions, implying a complete lack of respect on the part of The Skins franchise.

And I think, it will be successful in creating outrage for those who know nothing of this issue.

It may not bother you two, but it bothers the hell out of me.

lol....judging from this thread, I'd say it bothers um

 

[SoCalWizFan]

lol....judging from this thread, I'd say it bothers um

Perhaps - but it could also just be that this is the slow time of year for the NFL & Redskins & there is not much else to discuss. One way or another - I want to move on to talk about actual football. This is one of the things that bothers me about things like this - just another reason for outlets like ESPN to talk about anything except for the actual competition. They have ruined sports coverage to a major degree.