Change a stupid rule

[NAIVEONE]

The NBA needs to change its rules about drawing fouls while shooting, especially on 3-point shots. When a defender jumps straight up (in his own "landing space") to block a shot, the shooter with the ball should not be allowed to blatantly jump into the defender in the act of shooting to draw an unfair and ridiculous foul. Instead, the shooter should be called for an offensive "charging" foul for jumping into a defenseless player who is in midair. The defender's space in midair should be no different than the space he is defending on the floor. If the defender has an established position a foot off the ground with no horizontal trajectory, then an offensive player dribbling or jumping into the defender's position (whether he is in the air or feet planted firmly on the floor) should and must be called for "charging", regardless if he is in the act of shooting or not.

If the defender is jumping INTO a shooter and INTO the shooter's "landing space" then by all means, the shooter has every right to try and draw the foul while in the act of shooting, and the defender is at fault.

But please change the rule allowing the shooter to ram his shoulder into a defender 2 feet away from him caught in midair, trying to draw a foul by pathetically jumping into him while comically trying to get a shot off. This happens all the time out on the 3-point line. It looks completely pathetic on the shooter's part when he's not even trying to shoot with his "normal" form and only trying to draw a cheap foul to get to the free throw line. This is no different than "flopping" in my opinion, and is ruining the game. The foul should be on the offensive player, not the defender.

 

[WindyCityCoug]

for a first NBA post, ..... This is the Mother of all Hot Takes, yikes

Welcome

 

[thunderc]

Guess we can call it the Harden rule.

 

[flyerhawk]

By rule, if a defender jumps straight up and the shooter jumped into him, it should be an offensive foul. But that doesn't happen all that frequently because the defender almost ALWAYS jumps towards the shooter to maximize their blocking ability.

 

[NAIVEONE]

I've only seen them call an offensive foul when the shooter jumps into a defender caught in midair around the basket or in the paint, and even this is rare.

But out on the perimeter or the 3 point line, I have never seen the offensive player called for a foul (or charging) for jumping into a defender while in a sorry attempt to shoot the ball, for the sole purpose of getting to the free throw line. In plays out on the perimeter where the defender is just holding his ground with an established position, whether on the floor or in mid-air, the shooter 99 out of 100 times will get free throws for initiating contact.

I think this issue has not been addressed because the NBA wants more uncontested 3 pointers and jump shots, which leads to higher scoring games. They want defenders to give shooters space, and will continue to penalize anyone playing "tight" defense out on the perimeter. I just think most players abuse this rule on offense, and look ridiculous in doing so. Nothing worse than seeing a shooter bulldoze into a defender with his arms flailing and pretending to be in the act of shooting, and then getting rewarded 3 free throws for his "flopping" like antics. It's ruining the game.

 

[tlance]

Like @flyerhawk says, it is only a defensive foul if the defender jumps from A to B and lands in the shooter's landing zone. If the defender goes straight up they are fine.

The problem is that by current rule the defender is only entitled to go straight vertical, but the offensive player can lean or float to alter their landing area and draw a foul.

I said this on another thread, but the fix is easy:

Make the rule for offensive players the same. They are only entitled to their own vertical space on a shot attempt. If both the offensive player and defensive player are moving from A to B, then a landing area foul should not be called. All contact in that case would be incidental.

That minor rule tweak would prevent offensive players from trying to jump into defenders to draw a foul.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

By rule, if a defender jumps straight up and the shooter jumped into him, it should be an offensive foul. But that doesn't happen all that frequently because the defender almost ALWAYS jumps towards the shooter to maximize their blocking ability.

A substantial amount of time however the defender gets called for a foul even he goes straight up and down, so I agree with the point that players shouldn't be allowed to jump into a player and then shoot. The problem with that is besides being a nightmare in trying to figure out who did what, it would defeat the intent that the NBA has attempted in getting higher scoring games. The end result changing this rule is dead on arrival

 

[dtgold88]

I've only seen them call an offensive foul when the shooter jumps into a defender caught in midair around the basket or in the paint, and even this is rare.

But out on the perimeter or the 3 point line, I have never seen the offensive player called for a foul (or charging) for jumping into a defender while in a sorry attempt to shoot the ball, for the sole purpose of getting to the free throw line. In plays out on the perimeter where the defender is just holding his ground with an established position, whether on the floor or in mid-air, the shooter 99 out of 100 times will get free throws for initiating contact.

I think this issue has not been addressed because the NBA wants more uncontested 3 pointers and jump shots, which leads to higher scoring games. They want defenders to give shooters space, and will continue to penalize anyone playing "tight" defense out on the perimeter. I just think most players abuse this rule on offense, and look ridiculous in doing so. Nothing worse than seeing a shooter bulldoze into a defender with his arms flailing and pretending to be in the act of shooting, and then getting rewarded 3 free throws for his "flopping" like antics. It's ruining the game.

I'd say you are spot on. Guy who does what you describe a lot that I see is Kevin Love, and gets away with it often.

 

[dtgold88]

Like @flyerhawk says, it is only a defensive foul if the defender jumps from A to B and lands in the shooter's landing zone. If the defender goes straight up they are fine.

The problem is that by current rule the defender is only entitled to go straight vertical, but the offensive player can lean or float to alter their landing area and draw a foul.

I said this on another thread, but the fix is easy:

Make the rule for offensive players the same. They are only entitled to their own vertical space on a shot attempt. If both the offensive player and defensive player are moving from A to B, then a landing area foul should not be called. All contact in that case would be incidental.

That minor rule tweak would prevent offensive players from trying to jump into defenders to draw a foul.

do you mean only on perimeter shots (as I like that idea if that's the case). Tough rule to enforce when guys are going to the hoop and momentum will and should take them forward.

would hate more stops to the game, but maybe what they could do is make this reviewable, so as to catch the shooters who are kicking out their legs or even lean in to draw contact. Think we both agree it's a very tough game to officiate with how fast they move and everything you need to see to get a call right.

 

[tlance]

do you mean only on perimeter shots (as I like that idea if that's the case). Tough rule to enforce when guys are going to the hoop and momentum will and should take them forward.

would hate more stops to the game, but maybe what they could do is make this reviewable, so as to catch the shooters who are kicking out their legs or even lean in to draw contact. Think we both agree it's a very tough game to officiate with how fast they move and everything you need to see to get a call right.

I think it applies on layups and drives too.

I am only talking about landing area fouls which are where most of the jump shot calls come from.

You can still get fouled on a drive or a shot if you don't go vertical, but it has to be more than a landing area violation. There has to be some ther type of contact that gives the defender an advantage.

 

[NAIVEONE]

Make the rule for offensive players the same. They are only entitled to their own vertical space on a shot attempt. If both the offensive player and defensive player are moving from A to B, then a landing area foul should not be called. All contact in that case would be incidental.

That minor rule tweak would prevent offensive players from trying to jump into defenders to draw a foul.

This makes perfect sense and would help solve this issue, which didn't exist when Jordan, Magic and Bird played. I think this is a recent phenomena due to how much the game has changed, and the fact that free throws (if a player is a halfway decent FT shooter >75%) are the most efficient and most team beneficial (points + defensive foul) shot in basketball. So a 90% FT shooter like Curry or DLillard should always be going out of his way to draw contact and get shooting fouls. With this sorry-ass bias toward the shooter in place for the foreseeable future, Steph and Dame should never ever sidestep a defender after a pump fake (like they usually do) to get a clear open 3. After the pump fake, they should be intentionally jumping into their defender "in the fake act of shooting" whenever the defender, who is trying to block their shot or obstruct their view, is caught in midair. The refs are giving them 3 free throws every single time.

Overwhelmingly, the math makes it a no brainer for a guy like Steph, Dame, and KD to always. without hesitation, jump into an airborne defender while pretending to shoot a 3, when the ref is going to call a shooting foul 99 out of 100 times. A 90% FT shooter has about a 73% chance of making all 3 free throws. Why take approximately a 40% shot to score 3 when you could just draw the cheap foul and have a 73% chance of scoring 3?

And yes, K Love is one of the worst offenders of this game ruining act. Like I said, it's no different than "flopping" which is illegal and looked down upon. You're exaggerating your actions, and completely altering your normal way of shooting, in order to trick the ref into calling a foul. But as long as the refs are going to reward guys for "shoot-flopping", I don't blame players for taking advantage of it. Yes, the game moves very fast and it's tough for the refs to always get the right call, but this pathetic attempt to draw a shooting foul is so blatantly obvious and easy to spot, that the refs could easily distinguish this "flopping"-like act from a real shooting fou l- where a guy's jump shot is actually being altered by the defender via contact.

Unfortunately, I agree that the NBA will not address this issue in hopes to keep the game higher scoring, and deter players from playing "tight" defense on the perimeter, giving shooters a clear sight to the basket. But when it becomes a common occurrence during play, it slows down the game and makes it ugly to watch.

 

[lebron23james]

That post was too long, somebody summerize what he said for me. Thanks!

 

[MHSL82]

... This happens all the time out on the 3-point line. It looks completely pathetic on the shooter's part when he's not even trying to shoot with his "normal" form and only trying to draw a cheap foul to get to the free throw line. This is no different than "flopping" in my opinion, and is ruining the game. The foul should be on the offensive player, not the defender.

But jumping into the defender is Harden’s “normal” form.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

That post was too long, somebody summerize what he said for me. Thanks!

NBA players are whiny drama bitches

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

But jumping into the defender is Harden’s “normal” form.

His form sucks then

 

[lebron23james]

NBA players are whiny drama bitches

Ah, thanks!

 

[shopson67]

Guess we can call it the Harden rule.

Harden rule part two could be not allowing a forearm shove into the defender prior to the step back....errrr traveling jumper. Or would that be parts two and three?

 

[MHSL82]

Harden rule part two could be not allowing a forearm shove into the defender prior to the step back....errrr traveling jumper. Or would that be parts two and three?

Maybe he can choose one but not both. You either get to push like Jordan or travel like Olajuwon, but not both. (Yes, I know Hakeem travelled differently than Harden does.)

 

[Shanemansj13]

Harden rule part two could be not allowing a forearm shove into the defender prior to the step back....errrr traveling jumper. Or would that be parts two and three?

Seems like his is more obvious than most players but just about every if not every great player had a patent move where they pushed off. Watch Giannis go to the basket, every time he creates space and with his length and size, that's all he needs. For some reason, when Harden does it, it can be very obvious, but isn't called. Steph does it too but it doesn't do as much for him bc of his lack of size and strength but really it's all he needs bc of how quick his release is.

To sum up my post, everyone does it, some look more obvious than others.

I would say Harden freaking travels A LOT, like what are the refs looking at. They must suck him off every pregame.

 

[MHSL82]

Seems like his is more obvious than most players but just about every if not every great player had a patent move where they pushed off. Watch Giannis go to the basket, every time he creates space and with his length and size, that's all he needs. For some reason, when Harden does it, it can be very obvious, but isn't called. Steph does it too but it doesn't do as much for him bc of his lack of size and strength but really it's all he needs bc of how quick his release is.

To sum up my post, everyone does it, some look more obvious than others.

I would say Harden freaking travels A LOT, like what are the refs looking at. They must suck him off every pregame.

No, you got it all reversed. He probably sucks them off to get the calls.