CBS Sports ranking all P5 coaches

[ericd7633]

Those are all fair points. One pretty big omission to your list would be Paul Chryst though. 4 bowl wins in the last 5 years, and his only bowl loss was by 1 point. 52 wins, two top 10 finishes (finished 11th in 2019), multiple appearances in the B1G CCG, and he's never playing with a team full of big-time recruits.

He would have been 11th or 12th. Probably 11th. Gave Franklin the edge just because the results have been about the same over the last 4 years, but he's won the conference with it being over Wisconsin

 

[Across The Field]

He would have been 11th or 12th. Probably 11th. Gave Franklin the edge just because the results have been about the same over the last 4 years, but he's won the conference with it being over Wisconsin

Yeah I don't disagree there. Ever since beating OSU back in 2016, Franklin has done a great job. However, would you have Kelly over Chryst based on the last 5 years? I know ND had the CFP appearance, but otherwise Chryst has outdone him, and he's done it with way lower recruiting classes.

 

[blazer prophet]

I'd move Shaw easily into the top 7.

 

[ericd7633]

Yeah I don't disagree there. Ever since beating OSU back in 2016, Franklin has done a great job. However, would you have Kelly over Chryst based on the last 5 years? I know ND had the CFP appearance, but otherwise Chryst has outdone him, and he's done it with way lower recruiting classes.

I'd say over the last 5 years Wisconsin as a whole has had an easier schedule than ND has. Wisconsin is 7th in P5 winning percentage and ND is 9th. So it's very minimal as far as that goes. Not alot is separating them. But getting to the CFP is nice to have on the resume. Chryst still hasn't won the conference.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I'm sorry, but there's like 4 coaches not named Harbaugh that I'd take over James Franklin in the B10. Honestly, I think his reputation gets pumped by Harbaugh existing in the conference. The trash he would be getting is directed at Harbaugh. Franklin can't beat OSU, he can't beat Michigan, and I think he had a losing record vs MSU as well. No one has benefited more from the extra 6 inches the refs gave OSU in 2016 against UM that gave him a conference title.

 

[ericd7633]

I'm sorry, but there's like 4 coaches not named Harbaugh that I'd take over James Franklin in the B10. Honestly, I think his reputation gets pumped by Harbaugh existing in the conference. The trash he would be getting is directed at Harbaugh. Franklin can't beat OSU, he can't beat Michigan, and I think he had a losing record vs MSU as well. No one has benefited more from the extra 6 inches the refs gave OSU in 2016 against UM that gave him a conference title.

Franklin walked into a shitty situation. When he got there PSU still had 2 years left on a 4 year bowl ban. That ultimately got lifted, but it's hard to recruit(which is his strength) given that, and the scholarship reductions, and the seemingly unknown of everything. You say he can't beat OSU, but he has(even if by fluke), you say he can't beat Michigan but he has twice. I'm sure you'd trade the last 5 years of Harbaugh for the last 5 years of Franklin if you had the chance.

 

[theboardref]

Honestly starting to get to the point where I'm wondering if Dabo isn't currently better than Saban. Obviously all-time Saban is still ahead, but looking at right now going forward, Dabo might've taken over.

Easier to navigate the ACC on a yearly basis.

 

[theboardref]

I'd move Shaw easily into the top 7.

 

[Across The Field]

I'm sorry, but there's like 4 coaches not named Harbaugh that I'd take over James Franklin in the B10. Honestly, I think his reputation gets pumped by Harbaugh existing in the conference. The trash he would be getting is directed at Harbaugh. Franklin can't beat OSU, he can't beat Michigan, and I think he had a losing record vs MSU as well. No one has benefited more from the extra 6 inches the refs gave OSU in 2016 against UM that gave him a conference title.

That was retarded.

For starters he's not only been able to beat OSU, not only been able to win the division, but he's been able to win the conference. Only peak Dantonio can say that for the last 7 years.

Secondly, he has played OSU exponentially closer over the last three years than Harbaugh, Chryst, or Dantonio.

Thirdly, as was mentioned, he took that program from NCAA sanction hell and has now won 42 games over the last 4 years, with 3 top 10 finishes, a conference title, a Fiesta Bowl win, and a Cotton Bowl win. Other than Urban Meyer, nobody has been better than him over the last 4 years in the conference.

 

[Across The Field]

I'd say over the last 5 years Wisconsin as a whole has had an easier schedule than ND has. Wisconsin is 7th in P5 winning percentage and ND is 9th. So it's very minimal as far as that goes. Not alot is separating them. But getting to the CFP is nice to have on the resume. Chryst still hasn't won the conference.

Well to be fair, ND hasn't won a conference either. ND went to the CFP by going 12-0, and if Wisconsin didn't have to play a CCG in 2017, they would've been in as well (#4 in the final CFP rankings before the CCG).

Also, while ND has had a tougher average SOS, it's not astronomical, as ND's average SOS is 25th while Wisconsin's is 37th.

 

[ericd7633]

Well to be fair, ND hasn't won a conference either. ND went to the CFP by going 12-0, and if Wisconsin didn't have to play a CCG in 2017, they would've been in as well (#4 in the final CFP rankings before the CCG).

Also, while ND has had a tougher average SOS, it's not astronomical, as ND's average SOS is 25th while Wisconsin's is 37th.

Yeah, but they are in a conference, with CCG, and teams have made it before without winning their CCG. Had Wisconsin played a better schedule in 2017 they might have been able to afford a loss in the CCG. As it stood they went 1-1 against ranked teams that season(not counting bowl game) and missed OSU, PSU and MSU during the regular season. I do think they were a very good team, but they just couldn't afford a loss given their resume.

Like I said before, it's minimal. I think both have done really good jobs. Both have their pros and cons as far as overall program is concerned. Both programs are solidly below that first tier of Bama, OSU and Clemson and on any given year can finish between like 5th and 12th or around that.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah, but they are in a conference, with CCG, and teams have made it before without winning their CCG. Had Wisconsin played a better schedule in 2017 they might have been able to afford a loss in the CCG. As it stood they went 1-1 against ranked teams that season(not counting bowl game) and missed OSU, PSU and MSU during the regular season. I do think they were a very good team, but they just couldn't afford a loss given their resume.

Like I said before, it's minimal. I think both have done really good jobs. Both have their pros and cons as far as overall program is concerned. Both programs are solidly below that first tier of Bama, OSU and Clemson and on any given year can finish between like 5th and 12th or around that.

Fair enough.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

That was retarded.

For starters he's not only been able to beat OSU, not only been able to win the division, but he's been able to win the conference. Only peak Dantonio can say that for the last 7 years.

Secondly, he has played OSU exponentially closer over the last three years than Harbaugh, Chryst, or Dantonio.

Thirdly, as was mentioned, he took that program from NCAA sanction hell and has now won 42 games over the last 4 years, with 3 top 10 finishes, a conference title, a Fiesta Bowl win, and a Cotton Bowl win. Other than Urban Meyer, nobody has been better than him over the last 4 years in the conference.

Franklin has a single win against OSU. And he won the conference the year of "the spot", the year MIchigan blew the doors off them.

Franklin has a terrible record vs. the entire division he's in. And has a worse record than Harbaugh against top 10 opponents. The only real knock on Harbaugh is his record vs. OSU and in bowl games. Imagine if Harbaugh had losing records vs. MSU, PSU and OSU. That's the guy being heralded as a top 10 coach.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Franklin walked into a shitty situation. When he got there PSU still had 2 years left on a 4 year bowl ban. That ultimately got lifted, but it's hard to recruit(which is his strength) given that, and the scholarship reductions, and the seemingly unknown of everything. You say he can't beat OSU, but he has(even if by fluke), you say he can't beat Michigan but he has twice. I'm sure you'd trade the last 5 years of Harbaugh for the last 5 years of Franklin if you had the chance.

Franklin backed into his only championship by a controversial 4th down call that prevented Harbaugh from getting his win vs. OSU and division title. Even so, I'd have to really think about it. Assuming we flipped situations that would mean Harbaugh has a losing record vs. PSU, OSU and MSU. That seems like a bad trade for backing into one title in Harbaugh's 5 years.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Kirby should be ahead of Brian Kelly. On field results matter, sorry.

 

[ericd7633]

Franklin backed into his only championship by a controversial 4th down call that prevented Harbaugh from getting his win vs. OSU and division title. Even so, I'd have to really think about it. Assuming we flipped situations that would mean Harbaugh has a losing record vs. PSU, OSU and MSU. That seems like a bad trade for backing into one title in Harbaugh's 5 years.

Or he won his conference championship by actually beating OSU and then by actually winning the CCG. As far as switching positions in the last 4 years he's 5-7 against OSU, MSU and Michigan. While Michigan is 5-7 against OSU, MSU and PSU. Sure his overall record is worse in the 6 total years, but he walked into a situation that was awful. And in 2015 Michigan lost to both MSU and OSU. So the only difference is Harbaugh has an extra win over PSU, but still a losing record overall in his time at Michigan against those 3 schools.

I find it odd you wouldn't trade places given you'd cancel out losing records against those teams, but add a win against OSU, and a CCG title.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Or he won his conference championship by actually beating OSU and then by actually winning the CCG. As far as switching positions in the last 4 years he's 5-7 against OSU, MSU and Michigan. While Michigan is 5-7 against OSU, MSU and PSU. Sure his overall record is worse in the 6 total years, but he walked into a situation that was awful. And in 2015 Michigan lost to both MSU and OSU. So the only difference is Harbaugh has an extra win over PSU, but still a losing record overall in his time at Michigan against those 3 schools.

I find it odd you wouldn't trade places given you'd cancel out losing records against those teams, but add a win against OSU, and a CCG title.

Well, here's why. Since 2015 PSU is:

2-3 vs. MSU
2-3 vs. Michigan
1-4 vs. OSU

While Michigan is:

0-5 vs. OSU
3-2 vs. PSU
3-2 vs. MSU

Yes. I'd like to have that OSU win. But would I sacrifice having losing records vs. PSU and MSU to get it? Maybe but it wouldn't be fun. Harbaugh has a winning record vs. 2/3 of the other big name programs in the east. PSU has a winning record vs. none of them. I repeat, Franklin has a winning record vs. none of the power programs in the east and he's being ranked as a top 10 head coach.

 

[ericd7633]

Well, here's why. Since 2015 PSU is:

2-3 vs. MSU
2-3 vs. Michigan
1-4 vs. OSU

While Michigan is:

0-5 vs. OSU
3-2 vs. PSU
3-2 vs. MSU

Yes. I'd like to have that OSU win. But would I sacrifice having losing records vs. PSU and MSU to get it? Maybe but it wouldn't be fun. Harbaugh has a winning record vs. 2/3 of the other big name programs in the east. PSU has a winning record vs. none of them. I repeat, Franklin has a winning record vs. none of the power programs in the east and he's being ranked as a top 10 head coach.

Yes and part of that reason is because he took over a shitty situation. He's got the same record as Harbaugh against the Big 3 programs since 2016. And only a losing record against OSU. But he's beaten them, and won a CCG. Harbaugh hasn't even gotten to Indy. He's also tied for 5th in P5 winning percentage since 2016 while Harbaugh is 11th in P5 winning percentage in that time frame.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Yes and part of that reason is because he took over a shitty situation. He's got the same record as Harbaugh against the Big 3 programs since 2016. And only a losing record against OSU. But he's beaten them, and won a CCG. Harbaugh hasn't even gotten to Indy. He's also tied for 5th in P5 winning percentage since 2016 while Harbaugh is 11th in P5 winning percentage in that time frame.

Not much Shittier than a 5-7 Michigan team that just lost to Rutgers

 

[ericd7633]

Not much Shittier than a 5-7 Michigan team that just lost to Rutgers

They were under sanctions that were slightly better than what smu had to deal with. People were talking about how PSU would need a decade to get back to some semblance of a top 15 program.