Carson Wentz:Locker Room Problem???

[PhoenixEagles1]

I dont care to respond.
Just felt like highlighting your ignorance.

So what’s less important on the OLine then C?

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

You're a dope. They are all equally important. If you are missing a T, G or C, then your line is incomplete. Derrrrrrr

So Guard is as important as LT? Ummmmm nope!

 

[dbldwn711]

So what’s less important on the OLine then C?

Centers can play guard. Generally speaking, Guards can’t play center.

 

[SteelersPride]

That thread on positional
Importance definitely states the draft declares importance I am wrong

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Centers can play guard. Generally speaking, Guards can’t play center.

Huhh???
Lots of Centers were Guards who weren’t athletic enough or strong enough to play Guard in the NFL and were demoted to Center. That’s just blatantly ridiculous

 

[Southieinnc]

Huhh???
Lots of Centers were Guards who weren’t athletic enough or strong enough to play Guard in the NFL and were demoted to Center. That’s just blatantly ridiculous

You still here? You are an idiot. You have been provided so much hard evidence and you still keep your bullshit coming.
Oh, the twists and turns of an unintelligent troll!

 

[Taddy Mason]

if this is still going on, has it at least been upgraded to Carson Wentz: American Cancer(or Capricorn if you're going for accuracy)???

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

You still here? You are an idiot. You have been provided so much hard evidence and you still keep your bullshit coming.
Oh, the twists and turns of an unintelligent troll!

I truly haven’t been given any hard evidence except opinion... oh, and that Centers actually snap the ball. This hard evidence crap is nonsense and why don’t you go after the guy who agreed with me

 

[SteelersPride]

I truly haven’t been given any hard evidence except opinion... oh, and that Centers actually snap the ball. This hard evidence crap is nonsense and why don’t you go after the guy who agreed with me

U haven’t given any hard evidence either. What U provide is refuted then u slightly change ur statements. You have zero links, references or backing . Yet u want proof, when given you change ur stance remember when u were at centers rarely getting taking in the first? Now we’re at top 14, because recently u changed to top 14 from top 15

 

[SteelersPride]

I truly haven’t been given any hard evidence except opinion... oh, and that Centers actually snap the ball. This hard evidence crap is nonsense and why don’t you go after the guy who agreed with me

Lol that whole one guy. How about the many others opposing u

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

U haven’t given any hard evidence either. What U provide is refuted then u slightly change ur statements. You have zero links, references or backing . Yet u want proof, when given you change ur stance remember when u were at centers rarely getting taking in the first? Now we’re at top 14, because recently u changed to top 14 from top 15

It absolutely was not refuted at all that’s just bullshit. Refuted where, refuted when? Is there really a big difference between 14 or 15. All it does is include one Center in over 700 pick.
They do rarely get taken in the first. Before last year it was three in the last 5 drafts (over 150 picks) or 2%. And it’s zero percent in the top 14.

It’s absolutely complete bullshit that it has been refuted.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Lol that whole one guy. How about the many others opposing u

Because these dip shits except the Seattle fan are the trolls of this site. You, Handi, DoubleDown, that Pats fan. Cut me a fucking break.

 

[SteelersPride]

Because these dip shits except the Seattle fan are the trolls of this site. You, Handi, DoubleDown, that Pats fan. Cut me a fucking break.

its the general board bud, anyone and everyone.

 

[Southieinnc]

I truly haven’t been given any hard evidence except opinion... oh, and that Centers actually snap the ball. This hard evidence crap is nonsense and why don’t you go after the guy who agreed with me

Why did you bother.

 

[Southieinnc]

I truly haven’t been given any hard evidence except opinion... oh, and that Centers actually snap the ball. This hard evidence crap is nonsense and why don’t you go after the guy who agreed with me

Just for giggles:

David Andrews calls all the O-line plays,
He gets hit on every play by rusher(s) trying to get to QB
He blocks on every play
On some plays he chips and then pulls to help the guards open hole for rusher.
Oh, and yes he does snap. If he doesn't do it right it will not turn out well.

Do you recall SB 50?

Jason Kelce is the 5th rated center in NFL and he is not important because Jason Peters blocks?

"...... center Kelce excel in downfield blocking and pulling on sweeps and screen passes, as well as identifying blocking assignments at the line of scrimmage"

 

[DutchBird]

Though I would not go nearly as far as PE, I do think that some positions are (regarded) as more important than others in the NFL. The (relative) importance of the positions does change over time.

For example, I think that the importance of MLB - or rather the importance of having a big massive MLB like Trotter, Lewis or Urlacher - has decreased massively. They have become almost obsolete. In many defenses - adapting to what the offense is doing - they have been replaced in importance by the nickel CB. These big LB's have become a liability. And - partially - teams try to compensate for that with strengthening their D-line.

As far as the center position goes, I think there are two somewhat objective measures (though each has its flaws): salary and draft position.

For salaries there are a few caveats, like the year the contract was signed (Lane Johnson ranks 17, but at the time his contract was one of the biggest for any tackle, and LT money), and - of course - there are twice as many guards as centers needed on a starting line anyway.

Looking at salaries for the O-line, ranking them by salary:

NFL Rankings

Highest paid LT: Taylor Lewan ($ 16 million), nr 1.
Highest paid Guard: Zack Martin (S14 million), nr 4
Highest paid RT: Lane Johnson ($ 11,5 million), nr 17.
Highest paid C: Ryan Jensen ($ 10,5 million) nr 24.

The 23 highest paid linemen are: 15 LT, 1 RT, 7 G.

Among the top 50:

LT: 19
G: 17
RT: 5
C: 9

Among the top 100:

LT: 26
G: 33
RT: 20
C: 20
Generic T: 1 (Wynn, at nr 96)


Looking at draft positions (for past 20 drafts), taken in first three rounds:

DraftHistory.com

T: 168 taken, 70 1st round, highest nr 1, 0 times 0 picks in 1st round, 19 with multiple picks (max 7) 1st round, average 3,5 taken in 1st round.

G: 94 taken, 23 1st round, highest nr 5, 6 times 0 picks in 1st round, 6 with multiple picks (max 3) 1st round, average 1,5 taken in 1st round.

C: 53 taken, 12 1st round, highest nr 11, 10 times 0 picks in 1st round, 2 with multiple picks (2) 1st round, average 0,6 taken in 1st round.


Looking at number of picks per position:

Tackle: 403 (20,2 average)
Guard: 284 (14,2 average)
Center: 146 (7,3 average)


Some potential conclusions:

- Center is deemed as important as RT by teans

- Guard is deemed slightly more important than C (which is logical considering what is asked of them).

- Finding a competent LT is the holy grail.

- The upside of getting a top guard is deemed greater than that of getting a top center.

- Top guards are easier to find than top centers.

- Many RT's seem to be failed (or hoped to be) LT's. There are a few exceptions, (like Lane Johnson), usually RT's drafted to protect left-handed QB's.


Just me doing some time wasting. Enjoy!

 

[SteelersPride]

Though I would not go nearly as far as PE, I do think that some positions are (regarded) as more important than others in the NFL. The (relative) importance of the positions does change over time.

For example, I think that the importance of MLB - or rather the importance of having a big massive MLB like Trotter, Lewis or Urlacher - has decreased massively. They have become almost obsolete. In many defenses - adapting to what the offense is doing - they have been replaced in importance by the nickel CB. These big LB's have become a liability. And - partially - teams try to compensate for that with strengthening their D-line.

As far as the center position goes, I think there are two somewhat objective measures (though each has its flaws): salary and draft position.

For salaries there are a few caveats, like the year the contract was signed (Lane Johnson ranks 17, but at the time his contract was one of the biggest for any tackle, and LT money), and - of course - there are twice as many guards as centers needed on a starting line anyway.

Looking at salaries for the O-line, ranking them by salary:

NFL Rankings

Highest paid LT: Taylor Lewan ($ 16 million), nr 1.
Highest paid Guard: Zack Martin (S14 million), nr 4
Highest paid RT: Lane Johnson ($ 11,5 million), nr 17.
Highest paid C: Ryan Jensen ($ 10,5 million) nr 24.

The 23 highest paid linemen are: 15 LT, 1 RT, 7 G.

Among the top 50:

LT: 19
G: 17
RT: 5
C: 9

Among the top 100:

LT: 26
G: 33
RT: 20
C: 20
Generic T: 1 (Wynn, at nr 96)


Looking at draft positions (for past 20 drafts), taken in first three rounds:

DraftHistory.com

T: 168 taken, 70 1st round, highest nr 1, 0 times 0 picks in 1st round, 19 with multiple picks (max 7) 1st round, average 3,5 taken in 1st round.

G: 94 taken, 23 1st round, highest nr 5, 6 times 0 picks in 1st round, 6 with multiple picks (max 3) 1st round, average 1,5 taken in 1st round.

C: 53 taken, 12 1st round, highest nr 11, 10 times 0 picks in 1st round, 2 with multiple picks (2) 1st round, average 0,6 taken in 1st round.


Looking at number of picks per position:

Tackle: 403 (20,2 average)
Guard: 284 (14,2 average)
Center: 146 (7,3 average)


Some potential conclusions:

- Center is deemed as important as RT by teans

- Guard is deemed slightly more important than C (which is logical considering what is asked of them).

- Finding a competent LT is the holy grail.

- The upside of getting a top guard is deemed greater than that of getting a top center.

- Top guards are easier to find than top centers.

- Many RT's seem to be failed (or hoped to be) LT's. There are a few exceptions, (like Lane Johnson), usually RT's drafted to protect left-handed QB's.


Just me doing some time wasting. Enjoy!

and there! there right there is some valid arguments, back up with some research, (even without a source)
its not hard to find objective data, and provide it. But when you provide objective data, then continuously change the data, or go purely subjective for months, its idiotic. Hell even made a thread on positional importance, somehow how he declares it a fail and comes in talking about centers. Cant even comprehend what the damn thread is about. Regardless, nice work

 

[dbldwn711]

Though I would not go nearly as far as PE, I do think that some positions are (regarded) as more important than others in the NFL. The (relative) importance of the positions does change over time.

For example, I think that the importance of MLB - or rather the importance of having a big massive MLB like Trotter, Lewis or Urlacher - has decreased massively. They have become almost obsolete. In many defenses - adapting to what the offense is doing - they have been replaced in importance by the nickel CB. These big LB's have become a liability. And - partially - teams try to compensate for that with strengthening their D-line.

As far as the center position goes, I think there are two somewhat objective measures (though each has its flaws): salary and draft position.

For salaries there are a few caveats, like the year the contract was signed (Lane Johnson ranks 17, but at the time his contract was one of the biggest for any tackle, and LT money), and - of course - there are twice as many guards as centers needed on a starting line anyway.

Looking at salaries for the O-line, ranking them by salary:

NFL Rankings

Highest paid LT: Taylor Lewan ($ 16 million), nr 1.
Highest paid Guard: Zack Martin (S14 million), nr 4
Highest paid RT: Lane Johnson ($ 11,5 million), nr 17.
Highest paid C: Ryan Jensen ($ 10,5 million) nr 24.

The 23 highest paid linemen are: 15 LT, 1 RT, 7 G.

Among the top 50:

LT: 19
G: 17
RT: 5
C: 9

Among the top 100:

LT: 26
G: 33
RT: 20
C: 20
Generic T: 1 (Wynn, at nr 96)


Looking at draft positions (for past 20 drafts), taken in first three rounds:

DraftHistory.com

T: 168 taken, 70 1st round, highest nr 1, 0 times 0 picks in 1st round, 19 with multiple picks (max 7) 1st round, average 3,5 taken in 1st round.

G: 94 taken, 23 1st round, highest nr 5, 6 times 0 picks in 1st round, 6 with multiple picks (max 3) 1st round, average 1,5 taken in 1st round.

C: 53 taken, 12 1st round, highest nr 11, 10 times 0 picks in 1st round, 2 with multiple picks (2) 1st round, average 0,6 taken in 1st round.


Looking at number of picks per position:

Tackle: 403 (20,2 average)
Guard: 284 (14,2 average)
Center: 146 (7,3 average)


Some potential conclusions:

- Center is deemed as important as RT by teans

- Guard is deemed slightly more important than C (which is logical considering what is asked of them).

- Finding a competent LT is the holy grail.

- The upside of getting a top guard is deemed greater than that of getting a top center.

- Top guards are easier to find than top centers.

- Many RT's seem to be failed (or hoped to be) LT's. There are a few exceptions, (like Lane Johnson), usually RT's drafted to protect left-handed QB's.


Just me doing some time wasting. Enjoy!

and there! there right there is some valid arguments, back up with some research, (even without a source)
its not hard to find objective data, and provide it. But when you provide objective data, then continuously change the data, or go purely subjective for months, its idiotic. Hell even made a thread on positional importance, somehow how he declares it a fail and comes in talking about centers. Cant even comprehend what the damn thread is about. Regardless, nice work

There’s so much “wrong” with that “research” it’s too much to list. I say that with respect to @DutchBird. First, the comparisons are off bc there are more guards and tackles than centers. Therefore, it only stands to reason that those numbers would be disproportionate.

Look, this is easy. @PhoenixEagles1 ORIGINAL premise was “centers were the LEAST important” position on the team”. Not surprisingly he’s come off that position to say among the least important. To me, what @DutchBird shows is that centers are far from least important. If they were truly the LEAST important (or among the least important) they we be at the BOTTOM of the pay scale. They would NEVER be amongst the highest paid offensive lineman. Is PE1 saying the Eagles are stupid for paying Lane Johnson all that money for a very unimportant position like center? Are the Steelers stupid for wasting a high pick on Pouncy?

This whole discussion is stupid bc whenever PE1 makes a statement or provides a fact he says “well... that wasn’t what I meant” or he minimizes the fact that proves his original premise wrong.

Centers are hugely important to a teams success. First, there just aren’t many of them around and even fewer on a team. When you do find a really good one you draft them high and pay them well. THAT right there shows how important they are!!! If you follow PE1s logic you should NEVER draft one high or pay them well because “it’s easy”. Nonsense.

Look... if you have 2 tackles you make your best one watch the QBs blind side. If you have 2 CBs you put one in man to man coverage and you give the other help over the top. If you have 2 safeties you... never mind... you get the point. Are you really going to tell me that center is less important than the second tackle on the team, the second CB on the depth chart, the second and third WR on the depth chart, etc etc etc

There are 22 starters on a football team (Let’s exclude ST). Does it really take “research” to “prove” to PE1 that center is the LEAST important or as he NOW claims among the least important?

That’s dumb

 

[SteelersPride]

There’s so much “wrong” with that “research” it’s too much to list. I say that with respect to @DutchBird. First, the comparisons are off bc there are more guards and tackles than centers. Therefore, it only stands to reason that those numbers would be disproportionate.

Look, this is easy. @PhoenixEagles1 ORIGINAL premise was “centers were the LEAST important” position on the team”. Not surprisingly he’s come off that position to say among the least important. To me, what @DutchBird shows is that centers are far from least important. If they were truly the LEAST important (or among the least important) they we be at the BOTTOM of the pay scale. They would NEVER be amongst the highest paid offensive lineman. Is PE1 saying the Eagles are stupid for paying Lane Johnson all that money for a very unimportant position like center? Are the Steelers stupid for wasting a high pick on Pouncy?

This whole discussion is stupid bc whenever PE1 makes a statement or provides a fact he says “well... that wasn’t what I meant” or he minimizes the fact that proves his original premise wrong.

Centers are hugely important to a teams success. First, there just aren’t many of them around and even fewer on a team. When you do find a really good one you draft them high and pay them well. THAT right there shows how important they are!!! If you follow PE1s logic you should NEVER draft one high or pay them well because “it’s easy”. Nonsense.

Look... if you have 2 tackles you make your best one watch the QBs blind side. If you have 2 CBs you put one in man to man coverage and you give the other help over the top. If you have 2 safeties you... never mind... you get the point. Are you really going to tell me that center is less important than the second tackle on the team, the second CB on the depth chart, the second and third WR on the depth chart, etc etc etc

There are 22 starters on a football team (Let’s exclude ST). Does it really take “research” to “prove” to PE1 that center is the LEAST important or as he NOW claims among the least important?

That’s dumb

im not saying its not flawed, But there is more to his poitns than a single babble from PE1 in months.

 

[dbldwn711]

im not saying its not flawed, But there is more to his poitns than a single babble from PE1 in months.

The draft is about evaluating talent. These very high draft picks that PE1 talks about (12-15) are reserved for players with “special talents”. For example: a RB that can carry an offense, a WR with great hands and exceptional speed, a tackle with great size, strength and speed or a QB (even one that’s not “great”) because the position is so sought after.

The fact that ANY center was taken with ANY of those picks shows it’s an important position. A team only carries one or two at the most. That explains why so few are taken NOT because it’s “unimportant”.

He’s once again backed himself into a corner and he’s trying to wiggle his way out by changing the narrative but everyone is on to him.