Carolina Panthers Fire OC and QB Coach

[Yo Tee]

yes i can go by passing stats. because get this...a QB's job is to throw first. this isnt the option at nebraska.

he broke a couple of steve grogans records. do you look at grogans numbers and say "he was not just a QB!"

no. he was a QB who once ran for 12 TD's in a season. he had 21 rushing TD's over 4 years. 1370 yards rushing. 5.9 per.

no one says "but he was more than a QB!" when they talk about grogan.

A QBs job is to throw first in certain offenses. That's obviously not the case in Carolina. A QB isn't just a thrower anymore. Do you still live in the 90s? Not every QB is Tom Brady. Get out of your New England bubble.

Also, I don't look at Grogan's numbers at all so that's irrelevant. Noone who isn't a Patriots fan talks about Steve Grogan.

 

[Rock Strongo]

A QBs job is to throw first in certain offenses. That's obviously not the case in Carolina. I don't look at Grogan's numbers at all so that's irrelevant. Noone who isn't a Patriots fan talks about Steve Grogan.

so the panthers run a "QB run first" offense?

 

[Yo Tee]

so the panthers run a "QB run first" offense?

The Panthers have plays in their playbook they call strictly for the purpose of Cam running the football. This isn't the old days where when you're a QB, all you do it throw the ball. We don't live in that world anymore. The Panthers are able to call plays that allow Cam to run the ball because he's so good at it, hence why his pass attempts aren't as high as other QBs in the league.

15th in attempts this year
18th in attempts last year
16th in attempts in 2015.

He's thrown for over 500 attempts in 1 season twice. He's rushed over 100 times 6 out of his 7 years. Not all QBs are gonna be like Brady or Rivers or Eli who are mainly pocket passing QBs. Look at Russel Wilson and the Seahawks. They started making him throw more and run less and they've easily become a worse team because of it. He's thrown over 500 times and rushed less than 100 each of the last two seasons. They've been gradually worse each season. He's got the defense and he's had the weapons to support him through the season and playoffs. Cam needs those weapons. He currently does not have that. His WR corps is non-existant. He's got an aging starting RB and an aging TE. He need better and probably younger talent around him.

 

[Rock Strongo]

The Panthers have plays in their playbook they call strictly for the purpose of Cam running the football. This isn't the old days where when you're a QB, all you do it throw the ball. We don't live in that world anymore. The Panthers are able to call plays that allow Cam to run the ball because he's so good at it, hence why his pass attempts aren't as high as other QBs in the league.

15th in attempts this year
18th in attempts last year
16th in attempts in 2015.

He's thrown for over 500 attempts in 1 season twice. He's rushed over 100 times 6 out of his 7 years. Not all QBs are gonna be like Brady or Rivers or Eli who are mainly pocket passing QBs. Look at Russel Wilson and the Seahawks. They started making him throw more and run less and they've easily become a worse team because of it. He's thrown over 500 times and rushed less than 100 each of the last two seasons. They've been gradually worse each season. He's got the defense and he's had the weapons to support him through the season and playoffs. Cam needs those weapons. He currently does not have that. His WR corps is non-existant. He's got an aging starting RB and an aging TE. He need better and probably younger talent around him.

all teams have QB run plays. shit, brady got his own sneak play hes only missed out on like 3 times.

as per the hard data shown, cam newton is not a good thrower of a football. im sorry, but i have hard data to back that claim up...as shown. metrics dont lie. they explain.

 

[Yo Tee]

all teams have QB run plays. shit, brady got his own sneak play hes only missed out on like 3 times.

as per the hard data shown, cam newton is not a good thrower of a football. im sorry, but i have hard data to back that claim up...as shown. metrics dont lie. they explain.

I disagree.

 

[Rock Strongo]

I disagree.

and thats ok. one of us works in this area, one of us doesnt.

i treat QB's like i treat thermal analysis and flux, etc.

hard numbers.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Am I the only person who watches the Panthers and thinks that they need to find a good, young RB to take some of the burden off of Cam. Jonathan Stewart looks like he's done to me or at least, on his last legs. He has a couple of decent runs per game and little else to offer from what I've seen. McCaffery is a really exciting young talent but no way is he an every down, up the gut RB that can carry the load. They would be better off making him a slot receiver, imo. That speed shouldn't be wasted pounding into the line.
Anyone that takes on the OC job hopefully can get some pieces to make that offense less about Cam running. Cam is an amazing athlete but one has to cringe every time you see him getting some of those hits or diving at the goal line with arms flailing. And they need somebody to really teach Cam how to actually make all the throws that go into QB play. He has a strong arm but still not much touch, imo. Seven years in, he should be better at the other things that go into the position, I think.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Am I the only person who watches the Panthers and thinks that they need to find a good, young RB to take some of the burden off of Cam. Jonathan Stewart looks like he's done to me or at least, on his last legs. He has a couple of decent runs per game and little else to offer from what I've seen. McCaffery is a really exciting young talent but no way is he an every down, up the gut RB that can carry the load. They would be better off making him a slot receiver, imo. That speed shouldn't be wasted pounding into the line.
Anyone that takes on the OC job hopefully can get some pieces to make that offense less about Cam running. Cam is an amazing athlete but one has to cringe every time you see him getting some of those hits or diving at the goal line with arms flailing. And they need somebody to really teach Cam how to actually make all the throws that go into QB play. He has a strong arm but still not much touch, imo. Seven years in, he should be better at the other things that go into the position, I think.

They need some playmakers on the outside....I dont see Funchess as a True #1, but a really nice #2......I could see them invest a Top 5 round pick in a RB, I agree Mcaffrey will always be a great 90 catch back, like a white Sproles, but will never get you the tough yardage between the tackles

 

[bksballer89]

@Rock Strongo looks like a clown. Cam is the problem? Lmfaooo

 

[Rock Strongo]

@Rock Strongo looks like a clown. Cam is the problem? Lmfaooo

argue my hard statistical data for throwing and prove me wrong.

PS i didnt say cam was "the problem" i said cam sucks as a QB throwing a football. the data backs up my claim 100%.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Am I the only person who watches the Panthers and thinks that they need to find a good, young RB to take some of the burden off of Cam. Jonathan Stewart looks like he's done to me or at least, on his last legs. He has a couple of decent runs per game and little else to offer from what I've seen. McCaffery is a really exciting young talent but no way is he an every down, up the gut RB that can carry the load. They would be better off making him a slot receiver, imo. That speed shouldn't be wasted pounding into the line.
Anyone that takes on the OC job hopefully can get some pieces to make that offense less about Cam running. Cam is an amazing athlete but one has to cringe every time you see him getting some of those hits or diving at the goal line with arms flailing. And they need somebody to really teach Cam how to actually make all the throws that go into QB play. He has a strong arm but still not much touch, imo. Seven years in, he should be better at the other things that go into the position, I think.

cam is an insane athlete. hes just not a good QB, and theres nothing wrong with people admitting that.

 

[Yo Tee]

no, cams a huge part of the problem.

argue my hard statistical data for throwing and prove me wrong.

PS i didnt say cam was "the problem" i said cam sucks as a QB throwing a football. the data backs up my claim 100%.

You said Cam is a huge part of the problem. Also, noone is arguing with you that Cam isn't a good thrower. But what he does with his feet make up for that. Once again, NOONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU THAT CAM ISNT A GOOD THROWING QB.

Cam Newton isn't a throwing QB though. He's a mobile, out of the pocket QB with more than just his arm which is why you can't judge him based on his throwing stats alone. Sorry, you just can't.

 

[Rock Strongo]

You said Cam is a huge part of the problem. Also, noone is arguing with you that Cam isn't a good thrower. But what he does with his feet make up for that. Once again, NOONE IS ARGUING WITH YOU THAT CAM ISNT A GOOD THROWING QB.

Cam Newton isn't a throwing QB though. He's a mobile, out of the pocket QB with more than just his arm which is why you can't judge him based on his throwing stats alone. Sorry, you just can't.

yes, i did. i didnt say he was "the problem" [sic]

and yes i can. a QB's job is to throw first, unless youre name is tommy frazier.

 

[Yo Tee]

yes, i did. i didnt say he was "the problem" [sic]

So what is "the problem" in Carolina?

 

[Rock Strongo]

So what is "the problem" in Carolina?

the front office, cam, and lack of consistency from both sides of the ball.

 

[Yo Tee]

the front office, cam, and lack of consistency from both sides of the ball.

Front office is changing drastically haven't you heard? But was that front office a problem in 2015? Nope. Was Cam a problem in 2015? Not at all. None of those problems you listed were problems 2 years ago. The moves they've made, the two bad drafts they've had the last two years are all affecting them. Bradberry and Worley are the only two guys from last years draft that really has done anything and McCaffrey is the only guy from this draft to accomplish anything. 2 straight years of bad drafting. 2 straight years of bad free agency transactions. Funchess hasn't improved at all. Kelvin Benjamin is a dud. Jonathan Stewart needs to retire tonight. Combine all that and you got a recipe for disaster as Cam thinks he needs to do everything because he can't trust what his team has given him as a supporting cast.

 

[Golden Spur]

Damn, thanks OP, hadn't seen that. I kept telling people you were going to make a useful post one day, no one would believe me.


This Offense had become completely directionless. Was time for Shula to go.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So what is "the problem" in Carolina?

I would say lack of depth and talent on the offense in certain areas, namely WR. Putting all their eggs in the "Cam" basket and continuing to believe you can win with him being Superman instead of getting players and implimenting a sustainable game plan and formula. The defense (mostly the front) is starting to get older and they may need to shore up some areas before too long while Kuechly is still in his prime years. Pass D needs to improve.
These are just my thoughts on them. Can't see them winning a championship with the status quo.

 

[Golden Spur]

I would say lack of depth and talent on the offense in certain areas, namely WR. Putting all their eggs in the "Cam" basket and continuing to believe you can win with him being Superman instead of getting players and implimenting a sustainable game plan and formula. The defense (mostly the front) is starting to get older and they may need to shore up some areas before too long while Kuechly is still in his prime years. Pass D needs to improve.
These are just my thoughts on them. Can't see them winning a championship with the status quo.

CAR drafted McCaffery and Samuel specifically to get more speed on the field. Then the latter was hurt most of the year. Damiere Byrd started coming on, got hurt. Benjamin just didn't work out as a playmaker, more of a possession type WR, got dealt. The Kalil signing at LT got us a guy who was "serviceable".

In retrospect, it was a really bad idea letting Ted Ginn go to the saints. Not only did Cam lose his favorite speed guy, TG killed the panthers in the playoffs. We need playmakers.

So part was bad luck, part was draft picks that didn't work out, part was dubious personnel moves. But Shula was definitely part of the problem - this teams needs an identity on O, they weren't going to get it leaving as-is.

 

[Sgt Brutus]

• Most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback in NFL history (47)
• Most passing yards by a quarterback in first two games (854)
• Most games in NFL history with a passing touchdown and a rushing touchdown (32)
• Most player of the week awards in a single season (5) tied with Tom Brady
• First player in NFL history and most games with at least 250 passing yards, 100 rushing yards, 1 passing touchdown, and 1 rushing touchdown in a single game (2)
• Most games in single season with at least one passing touchdown and one rushing touchdown (8)
• Only player in NFL history with at least 30 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns in same season
• Most rushing touchdowns in single season by a quarterback (14)
• Most combined yards in a player’s first five seasons (21,560)
• First quarterback and fifth player in NFL history with at least 500 rushing yards, 5 rushing touchdowns, and 4.8 yards a carry in 5 consecutive NFL seasons
• First quarterback in NFL history to win both MVP and OROY in his career.
• Fastest player to throw for 1,000 yards
• Sixth quarterback to throw for 400+ yards in back to back games
• First player in NFL history with at least five rushing touchdowns and five passing touchdowns in his first five games
• Twenty-fifth NFL player (and first quarterback) to have 20 rushing touchdowns in first two seasons [162]
• First player to have 30 passing touchdowns and 20 rushing touchdowns in first two seasons
• First player in NFL history with 50 passing touchdowns and 25 rushing touchdowns in his first three seasons
• First player in NFL history with 4,000+ passing yards and 10+ rushing touchdowns in a season
• First player in NFL history with 4,000+ passing yards and 500+ rushing yards in a season
• First quarterback in NFL history with 100+ pass touchdowns and 25+ rush touchdowns in first five seasons
• First quarterback in NFL history with multiple seasons of 20+ passing touchdowns and 10+ rushing touchdowns in a season
• First player in NFL history with 10,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards in his first three seasons
• First player in NFL history with 10,000 passing yards and 2,000 rushing yards in his first four seasons
• First player in NFL history to have at least 3,000 passing yards and 500 rushing yards in five consecutive seasons
• First quarterback in NFL history to rush for 100+ yards and pass for 300+ yards with 5 touchdowns in a single game
• First player in NFL history with 100+ rush yards and 5 pass touchdowns in a single game
• First player with 3,500 passing yards, 20 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns in a single season
• First quarterback in NFL history with 10+ rushing touchdowns in multiple NFL seasons
• Fifth quarterback in NFL history with 3+ games with 5+ touchdown passes in a season
• Fourth quarterback to win 17+ straight regular season starts in the Super Bowl era
• Most games in NFL history with at least 200 passing yards and 80 rushing yards with multiple touchdown passes and a rushing touchdown
• 3rd quarterback in NFL history with 2+ passing touchdowns and 1+ rushing touchdown
• 2nd quarterback in NFL history with 3+ passing touchdowns and 1+ rushing touchdown
• First starting quarterback to win the NFC South in consecutive seasons
• Second player in NFL history with 7,500+ pass yards and 40+ pass touchdowns in first two seasons, joining Peyton Manning
• 3rd quarterback in NFL history to pass for over 3.000 yards in his first five seasons
• 2nd most 5+ touchdown games in a single season
• 2nd quarterback with 300+ passing yards and 100+ rushing yards in a single game
• First player in Super Bowl era to pass for 300 yards and rush for multiple touchdowns in a playoff game
• Most rushing touchdowns by a quarterback in his first four season

Cam Newton isn't a good QB. But he's isn't just a QB. He's a roller coaster QB just like the Panthers are a roller coaster franchise. But to say Cam Newton sucks is a severely uneducated opinion. Cam Newton is a playmaker. He's a big RB. He's a QB. He is a top 10 QB in this league and there is no arguing that.

His best days as a runner are behind him, which doesn't bode well for the Panthers. Better hope he can develop some accuracy and mental cognition.